OT: Career advice

[SnowblindNYR]

I may move on from my current career because they simply treat us like crap. I'm begging for hours/benefits but CUNY seems to think I can live off my money tree in the backyard while I wait for it. I like this job, but I have maybe another year left before it's literally not supporting me anymore.

My friend just got a job at a call center, he says he'll send me the info. $20/hr with benefits. My cousin drives trains for the MTA. He says he'll let me know when they're testing and get me the booklet. $29/hr with benefits.

That's the type of stuff that would really give me a good foundation to stand on. It's just a personal quandary for me because I've always been a straight A's student and really good with books.

I'm not trying to look down on anyone's job, I just feel like I would be letting everyone down if I didn't do something "smart." Everyone's real proud that I'm a professor

My friend is I believe a car inspector for $37 ($38?) per hour. The MTA pays pretty well and all you really have to do is pass a tast.

And btw, I understand completely. I'm a bit of a snob but I'm going to be making less even I do well in my next job post top 20 MBA where I paid 60k a year than I would be making if I worked in a less sophisticated job with my hands like a plumber or carpenter. Or at least than you can make in those jobs, probably won't be making that money off the bat right away. Thankfully I have hands like feet and can only work office jobs, haha.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Here's my dilemma. I'm looking at Product Marketing Manager roles but they mostly require a ton of experience that I just don't have. I have a few months of experience. But there aren't that many roles below that. So how do I get that experience without having more junior roles to apply to?

 

[NCRanger]

Here's my dilemma. I'm looking at Product Marketing Manager roles but they mostly require a ton of experience that I just don't have. I have a few months of experience. But there aren't that many roles below that. So how do I get that experience without having more junior roles to apply to?

You landed a role, albeit a contract role, as a Project Manager.

I've been working in IT, as a database developer, Business Analyst, Data Analyst, Systems Analyst, Project Manager, Team Manager, Release Coordinator, and SCRUM Master for the past 20 years. I can't find a straight up PM role anywhere in Charlotte, hell, even a Senior level Business Analyst, for decent money. Any calls I get are for similar salaries, if not lower.

I have had recruiters tell me to dumb down my resume and that I have way too much experience for this market. Almost like, if I don't have the job I want/need now, I'm never going to get it.

Yet the one call I did get was from Nashville where it would have been at least 20% more...

I'm really not sure in your case experience matters all that much. I think what I'd do in your situation is take anything that looks like you might be interested in it, as long as the compensation is "fair".

Not like seeing a role for a Data Analyst/ETL developer here for $17/hr. Seriously got an e-mail for that.

 

[Edge]

Something to remember is that you should always sell a prospective employer on how your skills transfer to their needs.

Past accomplishments are great, but you need to paint a clear picture about how that experience will work in your new environment.

One of the biggest mistakes I see in job interviews is that people answer questions as if they're applying for their old job, or with their current/former company.

Always find a way to demonstrate how your experience, skills, and strengths will work for the company you wish to join, or the job for which you're applying.

I also recommend developing some key points or messages you wish to convey during the interview. In other words, take control of the conversation a bit more and help steer it. Arch back to your strengths, your accomplishments and the 3-5 takeaways you want to impress upon the interviewer.

You don't have to memorize lines like you're rehearsing for a play, but develop a comfort level and familiarity with the product you're selling --- in this case, yourself.

Don't just tell someone WHAT you do; tell them WHY you do it the way you do, or WHY you're the best candidate. Just like you want someone to envision living in a house you're trying to sell, make it so your interviewer can envision YOU in the position they want to fill, and as a member of their team.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I also recommend developing some key points or messages you wish to convey during the interview. In other words, take control of the conversation a bit more and help steer it. Arch back to your strengths, your accomplishments and the 3-5 takeaways you want to impress upon the interviewer.

This is a really important point that I learned in grad school but had little knowledge of before. It is so crucial to do what you can to take control of the conversation (edit - while obviously still respecting the process and social norms).

I had a solid 5-6 main "stories" I would use to answer questions. Before the interview I would think about what my top 3 or so were that would be most relevant based on the employer/position. Then I would find a way to creatively work them in...which is admittedly a bit of an art. One of my best stories was generally in the "creative problem solving" bucket and could be used to answer a direct question on that, or how I work with data, or an accomplishment I am proud of, etc. I would give extra emphasis on certain parts of the story depending on the exact question asked so that it didn't feel like I was trying to shoehorn something in / not respect the interviewer's question. But I made damn sure I told that story in some way/shape/form in every interview I went on because I felt it highlighted the best I had to offer.

 

[emodwarf]

Here's my dilemma. I'm looking at Product Marketing Manager roles but they mostly require a ton of experience that I just don't have. I have a few months of experience. But there aren't that many roles below that. So how do I get that experience without having more junior roles to apply to?

Are you looking for a manager-level role specifically, or is "Product Marketing Manager" like "Content Marketing Manager" where the general job title isn't indicative of level?

It seems like you have or are getting an MBA, which can be useful, but if you don't have much/any direct real-world experience with product marketing...jumping into a manager-level role is a tough sell. Unless it's a small startup where you'll sacrifice some salary to get the inflated title and get in the door so you can build the experience you need (since you'd likely be doing it all yourself, including the grunt work).

As a copywriter, I've worked closely with both great and terrible product marketing folks. For that role, especially a more senior one, real-world experience goes a long way to being the former rather than the latter. If you have project management experience, highlight any relevant transferrable skills and experience you have (e.g., logistics, timelines, working with cross-functional teams). Any hard numbers you have around performance of your campaigns would be very helpful too. Especially if you don't have a lot of experience yet, quantifying the experience you do have is better than nothing.

But if I were interviewing someone for a product marketing manager role, I and my colleagues would still want real-world proof you know what you're doing. Hence why I'd suggest considering more entry-level roles in the field, if you're open to that tradeoff.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You landed a role, albeit a contract role, as a Project Manager.

I've been working in IT, as a database developer, Business Analyst, Data Analyst, Systems Analyst, Project Manager, Team Manager, Release Coordinator, and SCRUM Master for the past 20 years. I can't find a straight up PM role anywhere in Charlotte, hell, even a Senior level Business Analyst, for decent money. Any calls I get are for similar salaries, if not lower.

I have had recruiters tell me to dumb down my resume and that I have way too much experience for this market. Almost like, if I don't have the job I want/need now, I'm never going to get it.

Yet the one call I did get was from Nashville where it would have been at least 20% more...

I'm really not sure in your case experience matters all that much. I think what I'd do in your situation is take anything that looks like you might be interested in it, as long as the compensation is "fair".

Not like seeing a role for a Data Analyst/ETL developer here for $17/hr. Seriously got an e-mail for that.

I "lucked out". Frankly, the only reason I landed that role is my network and a manager that seems unusually influenced by someone putting in a good work for someone. Because the hiring process was a joke.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Are you looking for a manager-level role specifically, or is "Product Marketing Manager" like "Content Marketing Manager" where the general job title isn't indicative of level?

It seems like you have or are getting an MBA, which can be useful, but if you don't have much/any direct real-world experience with product marketing...jumping into a manager-level role is a tough sell. Unless it's a small startup where you'll sacrifice some salary to get the inflated title and get in the door so you can build the experience you need (since you'd likely be doing it all yourself, including the grunt work).

As a copywriter, I've worked closely with both great and terrible product marketing folks. For that role, especially a more senior one, real-world experience goes a long way to being the former rather than the latter. If you have project management experience, highlight any relevant transferrable skills and experience you have (e.g., logistics, timelines, working with cross-functional teams). Any hard numbers you have around performance of your campaigns would be very helpful too. Especially if you don't have a lot of experience yet, quantifying the experience you do have is better than nothing.

But if I were interviewing someone for a product marketing manager role, I and my colleagues would still want real-world proof you know what you're doing. Hence why I'd suggest considering more entry-level roles in the field, if you're open to that tradeoff.

It honestly seems to me that there's no standard for how senior the role is. I've seen anywhere from "product marketing or product management experience a plus" to "8-10 years of product marketing experience". I don't typical see job descriptions mention direct reports. I don't believe it's typically a management role.

I have some experience doing product marketing, and I'm open to a more junior role but I don't see too many options. I don't want an entry-level role. I graduated 10 years ago have around 7 years of experience and an MBA (excluding time looking for work and school). I'll be open to a stepping stone role like a found called "Product Marketing Coordinator" but I don't have too much desire to go for roles that should be going to 21 year olds.

 

[NYR]

I may move on from my current career because they simply treat us like crap. I'm begging for hours/benefits but CUNY seems to think I can live off my money tree in the backyard while I wait for it. I like this job, but I have maybe another year left before it's literally not supporting me anymore.

My friend just got a job at a call center, he says he'll send me the info. $20/hr with benefits. My cousin drives trains for the MTA. He says he'll let me know when they're testing and get me the booklet. $29/hr with benefits.

That's the type of stuff that would really give me a good foundation to stand on. It's just a personal quandary for me because I've always been a straight A's student and really good with books.

I'm not trying to look down on anyone's job, I just feel like I would be letting everyone down if I didn't do something "smart." Everyone's real proud that I'm a professor

Career advice IMHO and this applies to anyone really.

I don't really know much about the scope of work you perform but personally, I think that if you like what you're doing and money is the only issue, I'd stick it out as long as I possible.

Start to take measures along with making certain decisions that will aid to the benefit on your departure.

Set yourself up, have a plan and don't just leave on a whim.

CUNY is a machine so if you haven't already, take a keen notice on all the inner workings and how they conduct business.
Soak up every bit of knowledge possible, from the boss all the way down to the lowest man on the totem pole.

If you can replicate and even master the methods of their success, eventually you figure out a way to do it even better and dictate your own future.

Master something, make it your bitch and people will eventually be calling you instead of vice versa.

I truly believe that providing you work hard.

I know it sounds a bit crazy but if I told you my story you might be a bit surprised

 

[Machinehead]

Career advice IMHO and this applies to anyone really.

I don't really know much about the scope of work you perform but personally, I think that if you like what you're doing and money is the only issue, I'd stick it out as long as I possible.

Start to take measures along with making certain decisions that will aid to the benefit on your departure.

Set yourself up, have a plan and don't just leave on a whim.

CUNY is a machine so if you haven't already, take a keen notice on all the inner workings and how they conduct business.
Soak up every bit of knowledge possible, from the boss all the way down to the lowest man on the totem pole.

If you can replicate and even master the methods of their success, eventually you figure out a way to do it even better and dictate your own future.

Master something, make it your ***** and people will eventually be calling you instead of vice versa.

I truly believe that providing you work hard.

I know it sounds a bit crazy but if I told you my story you might be a bit surprised

I know we've had our differences, but this is really solid advice. Thanks for taking the time, man.

 

[NYR]

I know we've had our differences, but this is really solid advice. Thanks for taking the time, man.

It's rough out there man.
Real life counts and even though we have our differences with hockey, I whole heartedly wish nothing but the best for everyone out there when it counts

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I know we've had our differences, but this is really solid advice. Thanks for taking the time, man.

Are you an adjunct or do you have a PHD? I know that you teach stats. I figure a PHD in stats can be useful in various fields such as tech and finance where you can make coin.

 

[sbjnyc]

Are you an adjunct or do you have a PHD? I know that you teach stats. I figure a PHD in stats can be useful in various fields such as tech and finance where you can make coin.

I learned my chops as an actuary from my boss who was a former professor of econometrics. It was odd as we were taking our exams at the same time. Anyway stats at a high level is useful in any industry.

 

[Machinehead]

Are you an adjunct or do you have a PHD? I know that you teach stats. I figure a PHD in stats can be useful in various fields such as tech and finance where you can make coin.

No PhD yet.

 

[NYR]

Delete, to many beers or something lol

 

[SnowblindNYR]

No PhD yet.

What stats did you teach and what's the level that you know?

 

[Machinehead]

What stats did you teach and what's the level that you know?

I taught how to do basic things like correlation, descriptive statistics, comparing means etc on a program similar to Python.

My level of knowledge is literally learning it before the lecture because they kind of just threw me into this.

Haven't tackled regression yet, but I can learn anything in an hour.

 

[Irishguy42]

I taught how to do basic things like correlation, descriptive statistics, comparing means etc on a program similar to Python.

My level of knowledge is literally learning it before the lecture because they kind of just threw me into this.

Haven't tackled regression yet, but I can learn anything in an hour.

Can you see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

 

[Gardner McKay]

I may move on from my current career because they simply treat us like crap. I'm begging for hours/benefits but CUNY seems to think I can live off my money tree in the backyard while I wait for it. I like this job, but I have maybe another year left before it's literally not supporting me anymore.

My friend just got a job at a call center, he says he'll send me the info. $20/hr with benefits. My cousin drives trains for the MTA. He says he'll let me know when they're testing and get me the booklet. $29/hr with benefits.

That's the type of stuff that would really give me a good foundation to stand on. It's just a personal quandary for me because I've always been a straight A's student and really good with books.

I'm not trying to look down on anyone's job, I just feel like I would be letting everyone down if I didn't do something "smart." Everyone's real proud that I'm a professor

Regarding the bold...

Do you remember when we used to watch Rangers games together on skype while I was traveling, 2013/2014/2015? At 26/27, I was VP of a $12 million dollar division. I was living a crazy life, constantly traveling, got to stay in expensive hotels, had an expense account, got great perks, was always out with the CEO/COO at dinners and such, money was rarely ever an issue... I was living the dream at a very young age. Only it was the dream of someone else, not me. I thought it was what I wanted. I was miserable. Flat. Out. Miserable. I held on for so long because I knew my family and girlfriend/fiance (now wife) were so proud of me. My friends were absurdly jealous. Many of them just moving out of their entry level jobs they had taken a few years back.

I resigned in early 2016, took a different role with the company and a few months later left to go work elsewhere as a recruiting manager, a major step down for a Home Health VP, going from working on meeting our EBITDA goals and living in financial reports to.. working with resumes. I thought I was going to disappoint everyone. My degree was in finance. I was running shit a young age. It seemed to fit and it was "smart". But when I told my family and then wife what my decision was, they knew I was happy and they supported me. It was a drastic, and I do mean drastic (50%) pay cut but I couldn't stop smiling and knowing that they all supported me, it made it that much easier. Not to mention, this job has been a happy accident. I have been able to learn a lot more about HR than I previously did and in addition to recruiting, I now oversee employee relations, performance management and leadership development, three things which I absolutely love.

I doubt your family will feel as if you let them down. You need to do what is right for you. For some people, it is more important to do the work they love, money be damned. To them, financial stress is significantly less bothersome than being unhappy in their career. To others, financial stress is significantly more bothersome than being unhappy in their career. If you haven't already, I would really sit and think about what you want in the next 5-10 years? Do you plan on ever getting married? Having kids? Do you want to travel? When you figure out what you want, you can then begin to the understand the means needed to achieve those things. Whatever it is you decide, I would guess your family will be there to support you every step of the way.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Where is this mythical land?

Certainly not what I'm experiencing in Charlotte, North Carolina. Don't get me wrong, there are a TON of jobs here, it's just that 95% of them are entry and mid-level JOBS, not career builders in any way. Senior positions are few and far between and when one pops up, the salary actually goes down because the competition is so brutal.

Two states down in Georgia but it is really happening all over the country. We are losing people in all 50 states at the moment (well, 48, we only have one person in each of Alaska and Hawaii). People with 1 year of experience are being hired into Sr. level roles with 30-40k raises in base salary. It is absurd. We lost an accounting candidate to another company, this person had 2 years of experience, we were looking at them for a Sr. level role (although very hesitant based on the lack of experience), and they were offered $100k base elsewhere.

In Georgia we actually have negative unemployment and it is even worse. I love it here. Taxes are low. Dirt cheap cost of living. Houses are cheap. Companies are paying through the nose to find half decent talent because there are so few qualified people on the open market.

 

[NCRanger]

Two states down in Georgia but it is really happening all over the country. We are losing people in all 50 states at the moment (well, 48, we only have one person in each of Alaska and Hawaii). People with 1 year of experience are being hired into Sr. level roles with 30-40k raises in base salary. It is absurd. We lost an accounting candidate to another company, this person had 2 years of experience, we were looking at them for a Sr. level role (although very hesitant based on the lack of experience), and they were offered $100k base elsewhere.

In Georgia we actually have negative unemployment and it is even worse. I love it here. Taxes are low. Dirt cheap cost of living. Houses are cheap. Companies are paying through the nose to find half decent talent because there are so few qualified people on the open market.

Amazing.

That ain't happening here on the higher end. The lower and mid-range, yes. That part of the labor market is going crazy. It's us looking for that last step up that cannot find it here. It has a lot to do with Charlotte not having/losing many HQs. Still tons of employees, just different levels that what used to be here.

Charlotte has become a post-college destination, rather than a relocation spot.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Amazing.

That ain't happening here on the higher end. The lower and mid-range, yes. That part of the labor market is going crazy. It's us looking for that last step up that cannot find it here. It has a lot to do with Charlotte not having/losing many HQs. Still tons of employees, just different levels that what used to be here.

Charlotte has become a post-college destination, rather than a relocation spot.

That does make sense. We have had a lot of growth here in the past 5-7 years and a lot of companies have moved here. Hell, Mercades-Benz just moved its HQ here to Atlanta from New Jersey - it is amazing what happens when you throw a few tax incentives out there.

Have you considered relocating?

 

[NCRanger]

That does make sense. We have had a lot of growth here in the past 5-7 years and a lot of companies have moved here. Hell, Mercades-Benz just moved its HQ here to Atlanta from New Jersey - it is amazing what happens when you throw a few tax incentives out there.

Have you considered relocating?

NC throws out those tax incentives too, but we don't exactly get high quality, or we get divisions, rather than the whole company itself.

We actually had one foot out the door and bags all but packed earlier this summer. Actually GOT a job in Nashville at what would have been a 20% raise. However, the guy I would have been reporting to, got greedy and tried to hire a whole project team that wasn't in the budget. His boss vetoed the job/team after I had agreed to salary and benefits in principle.

We'll relocate for the right offer in the right place.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I taught how to do basic things like correlation, descriptive statistics, comparing means etc on a program similar to Python.

My level of knowledge is literally learning it before the lecture because they kind of just threw me into this.

Haven't tackled regression yet, but I can learn anything in an hour.

Just out of curiosity, how did you get the gig? I'm always curious how people get jobs particularly when I'm looking.

 

[kovazub94]

I may move on from my current career because they simply treat us like crap. I'm begging for hours/benefits but CUNY seems to think I can live off my money tree in the backyard while I wait for it. I like this job, but I have maybe another year left before it's literally not supporting me anymore.

My friend just got a job at a call center, he says he'll send me the info. $20/hr with benefits. My cousin drives trains for the MTA. He says he'll let me know when they're testing and get me the booklet. $29/hr with benefits.

That's the type of stuff that would really give me a good foundation to stand on. It's just a personal quandary for me because I've always been a straight A's student and really good with books.

I'm not trying to look down on anyone's job, I just feel like I would be letting everyone down if I didn't do something "smart." Everyone's real proud that I'm a professor

A lot of teachers I know are supplementing (very well) their income with private lessons and test preps.