Going to share my story now, because finally good shit has happened for me. The "I've been told my entire life how smart I was" part resonates with me. I was a high performer nearly in all my previous jobs. Then I landed where I am now in 2016 and I've stagnated.
Without delving into too many details... it began well enough, but after 3 years, my hiring manager quit and in 2019 I fell victim to a team reorganization that slotted me in the wrong place with an idiot manager whom I've fought for 4 years. Before the reorganization and before this idiot became my manager (through an acquisition), I happened to be lending my hand to this mainly tactical support team because I had the skills to. Then I ended up getting slotted into that team permanently upon the reorganization, because I was good at doing the work. What a dummy I was.
In the last 3 years, other teams and members in the department (many joined after the reorganization) just didn't know who I am, didn't know my background and skill set, what I was capable of, and just thought that I was my idiot manager's right-hand man. This guy is all about tactical support and isn't able to think strategically at all, whereas I tried to get him to understand that he and I needed to work together to move the needle. He kept agreeing but it never happened. He kept on tasking me with stupid transactional/administrative stuff to do hence my hours on end literally with little to do and spending my time here lol. He talked over me during meetings -- to show others that he was knowledgeable -- and would not give me more than a couple of actual project management assignments. I was no longer seen as a capable high performer. Now I became just a tactical guy, the "help." This manager of mine is insecure and "manages up," meaning he's all about doing what's asked and not getting in trouble with his boss and other heads. Looks after himself. Never was interested in my growth and development nor that of the other members under his team. He's a lucky s.o.b. because those other members have zero aspirations and are just happy to be the help.
Recently I reached out to the dept. VP for role clarity. In my mind, it really was the last straw. I told my wife that if I didn't get what I wanted, I would start looking again. There was another reorganization that had just occurred, and 3 people were let go, and now we're extremely lean, so I took advantage of the timing. I think that the VP knew I was a flight risk and they couldn't bleed any more people.
You might be asking why I didn't just quit in 2019. I looked and the pay elsewhere wasn't as good. I was close to getting hired by a company but ultimately didn't get an offer because I think I demanded too high a salary. Then the pandemic hit, so literally had to stay home. Then after the pandemic, the company went to full-time work from home and then to a flexwork scheme. I get every other Friday off. I can go offline whenever to take care of life stuff as long as I complete what I need to. I love all these things -- the pay, the perks -- except for the stupid spot I was put in.
I'm now finally slotted correctly in the role that I want and enjoy doing. All of the management that I went to prior could not execute on putting me in the right spot. Unfortunately I still have to report to this same manager, but now I can say to him, hey my focus is now firmly on my new role, instead of that stupid shit you put me on and try to take over yourself anyway.
I'm in marketing and communications with an engineering background and technical/analytical thinking skills.
That's excellent news for you so congrats.
One thing I will say as someone who has worked in the public sector, private sector, and nonprofits, and who has been a contractor, hourly, salaried, and a manager at various points in my career, that is VERY important, and I hope resonates with anyone on here who now or in the future ever has any role in hiring decisions ESPECIALLY when it comes to managers:
Bad managers can be identified by the trail of bodies they leave in their wake. Wherever they go, turnover increases. They tend not to give a shit about their people, only about how they look to their bosses (like your boss, it seems), they don't know anything and don't care to find out, and they just pass the buck and threaten discipline or punishments. Few stand up to them and the ones that do often get bullied in return. I say this in full happiness for will because I'm reading between the lines of what he wrote and basically he navigated a very difficult situation to staying with a company where statistically most people would have left and both the company and employee likely would have been worse off because of a manager. So Kudos to him for staying and working it out, but it's also the exception and clearly he considered leaving.
So the reason I'm making this point is that this is something that right now every company in America can do that will make it leaner, allow it to save more company time and money, increase employee morale/retention, increase engagement and therefore productivity, and MASSIVELY reduce the amount of work your HR department will have to do. This simple thing is...STOP HIRING BAD MANAGERS!!!!
There are simple ways to screen for this:
For internal candidates:
-Gather data from teams a managerial candidate has led. If turnover increased, bad sign.
-A FORMER employee of that manager (who reported to them) can help provide insight, provided they are nowhere that the manager has oversight over them. Asking a current team member to comment on that manager might not result in a real answer if they are scared of retaliation.
For all candidates:
-Ask the manager to tell you durnig the interview who is their favorite employee they've mentored and why. The level of detail they provide you will tell you whether or not this person gives a damn about their employees. Anyone whose complete answer is less than 15 seconds should NEVER get the job.
-Ask the manager to tell you about what one of their favorite employees did on a recent vacation. If they don't know, either they don't care about their people, or their people don't feel compelled to share their personal lives at work, which also tells you something about the culture that person creates.
-Ask the manager to tell you about a time they get to acknowledge someone on their team and what stood out to them. Again, level of detail tells you everything you need to know. A good manager will still acknowledge employees even if not required as part of a formal company policy, and will remember it since it's a deliberate act.
-Ask the manager if they would be comfortable providing you with 2 subordinate references. Follow up on them and see if they paint the same picture the manager does. Ask them how the manager helped them grow. References won't be able to cover for a boss they don't like when caught off guard with direct, but legitimate questions like this. Most people expect to only talk about the manager, not about themselves. Even if the employee is still trying to help out a bad boss (maybe because them getting a new job means they won't have to work for them anymore!) the answers can still be revealing. For instance, if the employee tells you the manager "helped them b/c they weren't complying with a rule and got them to take it seriously" that tells you this person isn't helping their team reach potential, this person is an enforcer who focuses more on discipline than growth. In that situation, I'd challenge the employee to think of another example that involved their personal growth (not just being reminded of a rule), to see what's under the hood. Good managers serve their teams - their teams will have stories galore. Bad managers expect their teams to serve them - their teams will struggle to answer the questions.
Finally, why do bad managers keep getting hired?
It's simple really...STOP VALUING EXPERIENCE THE MOST AMONG EVERYTHING IN THE APPLICATION PACKAGE!
Just because someone has experience doesn't mean they are good at a job. It means they've spent time doing it. I sat in my chair for 5 minutes writing this post...does this mean my post is better than yours because you spent 1 minute on it? Of course not. Yet for some reason with jobs, if someone has experience, a major wall is dropped and suddenly the candidate is often liked because of it. STOP THIS!!! Experience managing doesn't make one a good manager, and experience doing something doesn't mean someone will be good at managing others to do that same task if they have the wrong personality type.
So to everyone out there involved in hiring -- PLEASE stop hiring bad managers!!!!
This has been my PSA in this thread.
