Confirmed Trade: [CAR/PIT] Jake Guentzel (25% retained), Ty Smith for Michael Bunting, Ville Koivunen, Vasili Ponomarev, Cruz Lucius, 2024 cond. 1st, 2024 cond. 5th

[Dipsy Doodle]

So why do teams take a chance when Guentzel could just as easy go back to Pitt? Carolina must have had initial talks on an extension and guarantee he will re sign.

Because they want to win, and Guentzel's a great f***ing player that can put a team over the top.

Look at what he's done so far. That's not unexpected.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Half-assed approach if I've ever heard one. Unfortunate end to Crosby's career.

You never know, he's as competitive as they come and there's gas left in the tank so maybe we'll see the unexpected and he puts on another jersey.

Some people would be upset, but as a non-Pens fan who doesn't really care if he finishes his career with one team, I'd find that cool and refreshing.

 

[robbieberns]

2-9-11 in 7 games so far. Three assists tonight.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

That assist on Aho's 2nd goal is just Jake's game in a nutshell. Elite anticipation/IQ and sneaky skill to cap it all off.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Good pickup by Canes interesting to see if they resign him...

 

[66-30-33]

Good pickup by Canes interesting to see if they resign him...

They can't but they can re-sign him.

2-9-11 in 7 games so far. Three assists tonight.

Good for him. He's going to do good things with the Canes in the playoffs. Crosbys done nothing since Jake was injured before he was traded and now for the first time in his career will be under a PPG at the end of the season.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

They can't but they can re-sign him.


Good for him. He's going to do good things with the Canes in the playoffs. Crosbys done nothing since Jake was injured before he was traded and now for the first time in his career will be under a PPG at the end of the season.

He was doing well after Guentzel was injured. After Guentzel got traded he gave up.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

So why do teams take a chance when Guentzel could just as easy go back to Pitt? Carolina must have had initial talks on an extension and guarantee he will re sign.

Well they paid for his services this year, and they're a legit contender. And also now they're the only team that can offer him 8 years, so they're certainly the leading candidate to sign him. He fits in well and seems to be highly complimentary of the players and coaching staff there.

 

[Fatass]

Well they paid for his services this year, and they're a legit contender. And also now they're the only team that can offer him 8 years, so they're certainly the leading candidate to sign him. He fits in well and seems to be highly complimentary of the players and coaching staff there.

And he’s on a Cup contender that will be challenging for Cups for several years to come too. He might like this situation and take a bit less (and have the total amount stretched out over the full 8 years) overall. Could the Canes afford 60 million?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You never know, he's as competitive as they come and there's gas left in the tank so maybe we'll see the unexpected and he puts on another jersey.

Some people would be upset, but as a non-Pens fan who doesn't really care if he finishes his career with one team, I'd find that cool and refreshing.

As a Pens fan, I'd find selling off Crosby's best winger prematurely then Crosby himself because of the hopelessness of a post-Guentzel landscape a stupid and avoidable scenario.

2-9-11 in 7 games so far. Three assists tonight.

Yeah, Guentzel is fantastic, which is why the return for him was so underwhelming.

This is what he does for teams.

 

[SomeDude]

a stupid and avoidable scenario.

I think we found the title of the Dubas era in Pittsburgh.

 

[chethejet]

May I remind everyone Guentzel at 9 million does nothing to bring the Pens back to cup contention, but the trade starts that process. Every single player on the Pens is expendable. Dubas has to move assets here to get younger deeper and more importantly better down the road. Pens will not tank as much as bring in talent to develop.

 

[bleedgreen]

So why do teams take a chance when Guentzel could just as easy go back to Pitt? Carolina must have had initial talks on an extension and guarantee he will re sign.

Nope. They paid that much for a pure rental. Both sides have said they had zero prior talks and since it appears he doesn’t intend to. The Pens made out like bandits here, and everyone knew it going in. The Canes overpaid, but they can afford to.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Nope. They paid that much for a pure rental. Both sides have said they had zero prior talks and since it appears he doesn’t intend to. The Pens made out like bandits here, and everyone knew it going in. The Canes overpaid, but they can afford to.

That is the exact opposite of the consensus across the hockey world. The Pens got worked.

The price was for a playoff run. That's what contenders who have actual Cup aspirations do. They also happened to get a steal of a deal even if Guentzel walks.

The early returns show exactly why he was worth it. He's a gamer who makes any line better, and he does the same thing in the playoffs.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

May I remind everyone Guentzel at 9 million does nothing to bring the Pens back to cup contention, but the trade starts that process. Every single player on the Pens is expendable. Dubas has to move assets here to get younger deeper and more importantly better down the road. Pens will not tank as much as bring in talent to develop.

Guentzel at 9 mil is a solid deal. We will not be able to replace his contributions for that price (have you seen this year's UFA crop?), and Crosby and Malkin both need wingers of his calibre at this point in their careers, obviously. They don't grow on trees, and we just gave one away.

It's likely a rotating cast of Buntings and Smiths in the top 6 from here on out, which is pretty bleak, and not how things should have turned out with Letang and Malkin signing sweetheart deals. We are further from contention now than we were before the deadline.

A few B/C grade prospects are not going to tilt the balance for the Crosby/Malkin era or beyond.

 

[bleedgreen]

The price was for a playoff run. That's what contenders who have actual Cup aspirations do. They also happened to get a steal of a deal even if Guentzel walks.

The early returns show exactly why he was worth it. He's a gamer who makes any line better, and he does the same thing in the playoffs.

Show me someone else paying that price. You haven’t yet.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

That is the exact opposite of the consensus across the hockey world. The Pens got worked.

The price was for a playoff run. That's what contenders who have actual Cup aspirations do. They also happened to get a steal of a deal even if Guentzel walks.

The early returns show exactly why he was worth it. He's a gamer who makes any line better, and he does the same thing in the playoffs.

If Carolina doesn’t win the Cup or doesn’t re-sign Guenztel, both of which are rather likely, then they’ve given Pittsburgh a Top 6 winger and 3 good prospects for a few months of good play.

In what world is that a “steal of a deal”?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If Carolina doesn’t win the Cup or doesn’t re-sign Guenztel, both of which are rather likely, then they’ve given Pittsburgh a Top 6 winger and 3 good prospects for a few months of good play.

In what world is that a “steal of a deal”?

A world where you're holding a good enough hand that it makes sense to push some chips in, especially when they're not even close to your best chips.

The Canes added an elite winger who's made their team demonstrably better, and didn't even have to give up one of their top 5 prospects or an unconditional 1st to do it. The "top 6 winger" was a 3rd wheel and served as a cap dump. That's highway robbery.

Nobody can predict the future. A GM's job is to minimize risk and maximize reward, and Waddell did that masterfully.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Show me someone else paying that price. You haven’t yet.

The Canucks did for Lindholm, who's a far less accomplished playoff performer than Guentzel. They paid an unconditional 1st round pick and a better prospect than any the Canes gave up.

A bonus prospect like Cruz Lucius doesn't make up for the top end quality the Flames got. Quality over quantity.

The return on their investment hasn't been nearly as good either.

 

[chethejet]

Pens can't help two older centers who struggle with a 82 game schedule and look spent. Malkin is sliding now and getting better wingers if even possible with high AAV's won't change that. Contractually Malkin is here as is Letang with over 35+ contracts. Hextall never should have given players that cap restrictive contracts especially Carter. Pens have next year to get through with Rust, Karlsson and Malkin. Malkin retires after next year doesn't change the cap hit for the 4th year. Dubas is in a rougher situation than I think he was anticipating with age is now a real issue. But he can get through the next year of crap and then tear it down piece by piece including sullivan.

 

[bleedgreen]

The Canucks did for Lindholm, who's a far less accomplished playoff performer than Guentzel. They paid an unconditional 1st round pick and a better prospect than any the Canes gave up.

A bonus prospect like Cruz Lucius doesn't make up for the top end quality the Flames got. Quality over quantity.

The return on their investment hasn't been nearly as good either.

We’re going to have to just agree to disagree there, I’d take the Canes package all day long.

Regardless, no one offered you the package you wanted! It’s clear you just hate Dubas, so any prospect he acquired is crap and any player he acquired is crap. We get it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We’re going to have to just agree to disagree there, I’d take the Canes package all day long.

Regardless, no one offered you the package you wanted! It’s clear you just hate Dubas, so any prospect he acquired is crap and any player he acquired is crap. We get it.

Then you keep the elite player. This isn't about Dubas personally, its about his asset management in this instance, and the philosophy behind it.

The surest thing from the Canes is a top 6 3rd wheel who is not on a bargain deal, of which the Pens have many. The prospect with the highest ceiling, Koivunen, probably has a 5% chance of being a good - not elite - top 6er...someday.

I'll take the guaranteed elite winger over a top 6 3rd wheel and a grab bag of B/C prospects to throw at the wall, all day every day.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

This is f***ing infuriating:

In any event, Kyle Dubas is currently not committing to either side of the coin. “It's not the binary, full-on contending or full-on rebuilding,” he said, via NHL.com. “It's something different, uncommon and there's not a crystal-clear view of how it is supposed to go timeline-wise or transaction-wise.”

Penguins' Kyle Dubas responds to Jake Guentzel trade backlash after deadline

Pittsburgh Penguins general manager Kyle Dubas addressed the backlash he received in the wake of the Jake Guentzel trade.

clutchpoints.com

So just run out Crosby's clock with this half assed half-in, half out philosophy that will see the Pens on the playoff margins for the next 5 years so they neither do playoff damage nor get any good draft picks. Must've got a mandate from FSG to hang onto Crosby for fans who will attend just to see a legend play in his twilight years.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

We’re going to have to just agree to disagree there, I’d take the Canes package all day long.

Regardless, no one offered you the package you wanted! It’s clear you just hate Dubas, so any prospect he acquired is crap and any player he acquired is crap. We get it.

Fu^k them picks.

—LA Rams—

 

[orby]

Guentzel at 9 mil is a solid deal. We will not be able to replace his contributions for that price (have you seen this year's UFA crop?), and Crosby and Malkin both need wingers of his calibre at this point in their careers, obviously. They don't grow on trees, and we just gave one away.

It doesn't matter, though, because the Pens are not going to be competitive for the rest of the Crosby/Malkin era. They are not going to win another cup with this core. It's over. They're better served to dismantle the team for futures bit by bit than they are to try to resign Guentzel for the umpteenth consecutive futile playoff push. Dubas clearly has marching orders to avoid a rebuild, but the writing is on the wall.