Confirmed Trade: [CAR/PIT] Jake Guentzel (25% retained), Ty Smith for Michael Bunting, Ville Koivunen, Vasili Ponomarev, Cruz Lucius, 2024 cond. 1st, 2024 cond. 5th

[Divine]

Find me a single UFA 50 points guy making under a million. Even at 4.5m he's cheap and should bring a sizeable return at 50% retained. As for +/-, that things never been relevant. He led the leafs in +/- in his rookie season. He was 2nd behind Matthews on the leafs for forwards last year. Suddenly it's relevant now that he's a minus?

Yes, and Bunting doesn’t make 1 million. That’s my point.

 

[stats1]

Even the 1st is conditional. Maybe Dubas is thinking quantity over quality to get the odds up of at least one of these kids making it. But this seems like a fleecing by Carolina

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Must be nice to draft well like the Canes to have a pool this deep to grab players at the deadline.

This is all about the Canes drafting a ton too. 50 picks over the past 5. A number of trade downs. Koivunen is the extra pick from trading out of the 1st round in 2021.

The debate of quality (1 late 1st) vs. quantity (2 mid-ish 2nds) has a place here.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Yeah, I’m calling it now: At least one of those prospects will come back to bite Carolina in the ass a few years down the line. My money is on Pono, but any of the 3 have a good shot.

Canes and pens are on different timelines. Does it really matter if we get a good player five years from now.

 

[Dessloch]

Quantity over quality, but looking at the penguins roster, age, and pipeline, that's probably exactly what they needed.

Karlsson trade looks so bad.

Would it have looked better if the Pens had Mikael Granlund, Nathan Legare, Jeff Petry. Jan Rutta and Casey DeSmith instead of Karlsson? To me it it would have sucked just as much!

 

[Rafafouille]

Yes, and Bunting doesn’t make 1 million. That’s my point.

I still don't understand your point. There's not a world where he's worth anywhere near only 1m. 4.5m is a bargain for a middle 6 player in 2024.

 

[TheBeard]

This thread demonstrates that the average HF poster’s knowledge of prospects is actually quite thin.

Admittedly I don't know anything about the prospects

 

[Kairi Zaide]

This is seriously one of the biggest returns I think I’ve ever seen for a rental. There haven’t even been any talks about an extension. People dogging this don’t know squat about prospects. I can’t think of a comparable to this at all.

As a pure rental with no extension in place, absolutely. The line between a 2nd round pick and a 1st round pick is very fine and often vastly overstated. 2 2nd round picks > 1 late 1st round pick pretty much any draft in terms of expected value.

I still would have liked to see the conditional first tied to a possible extension though (i.e. becomes a first if carolina goes to SCF OR guentzel extends), but it would have required the 1st to be in 2025 rather than 2024.

And who knows what Crosby might do to Bunting's value.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Admittedly I don't know anything about the prospects

Explains our arguments last year in the Timo trade thread Jk, I hope that trade works out for you guys and Musty/Shak are beasts lol

 

[God]

I dont. Have you read any of the Guentzal threads this last week? Karma's a bitch

I think basically every Pens fan didn't understand what I was saying about Hoglander + his contract being a premium asset worth more than Guentzel which is why there was no way he was going to be included in a deal... and I don't really take that personally, it still sucks. The only fanbase I don't care for is Edmonton.

 

[JetsFan815]

Which offer was better? Canucks for Lindholm or Canes for Guentzal?

The Canes offer seems to have a higher a floor as there is a good chance you atleast get 1 NHL player out of those prospects.

But the Canucks offer has a higher ceiling with Hunter B and the guaranteed 1st with more "boom or bust" potential

Bunting >>>> Kuzmenko though

Get the feeling if the Canucks had held their powder dry, they could have gotten Guentzal for their 1st, Hunter B, Podkolzin and maybe Bains.

 

[Divine]

I still don't understand your point. There's not a world where he's worth anywhere near only 1m. 4.5m is a bargain for a middle 6 player in 2024.

I think you’re highly overrating Michael Bunting. There’s a reason he made under a million every year of his career except this one.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

According to Scott Wheeler, Ponomaryov was the Hurricanes' 6th-best prospect, Koivunen was their 7th-best prospect, and Lucius was their 9th-best prospect.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I like how Canes fans, the ones familiar with these prospects, are saying it’s a decent/solid return for the Penguins, yet it’s a bunch of other fans saying how Dubas got bent over.

I hope Guentzel does well in Carolina and they go on a run. Think he should be a great fit there. I hope Koivunen and Ponomarev end up as good as Canes fans think they can be.

 

[TheBeard]

Explains our arguments last year in the Timo trade thread Jk, I hope that trade works out for you guys and Musty/Shak are beasts lol

I liked Mukh in the trade and I don't really think we got back any other prospects outside of a fringe D-man.

I like how Canes fans, the ones familiar with these prospects, are saying it’s a decent/solid return for the Penguins, yet it’s a bunch of other fans saying how Dubas got bent over.

I hope Guentzel does well in Carolina and they go on a run. Think he should be a great fit there. I hope Koivunen and Ponomarev end up as good as Canes fans think they can be.

You know how it goes, it Carolina truly liked these prospects they'd be blasting Rod The Bod for giving up too much. The more complimentary fanbases are the more they're just being diplomatic.

 

[chaz4hockey]

As a Pens fan I have no idea what to think because I know jack shit about any of the prospects they acquired.

So I guess I'll withhold my disgust until we see in a few years whether any of these kids amounts to anything.

Pono= Jesper fast type player with more offensive upside

Koivenen=not a fast skater but smart; a teuvo Teräväinen

Like them both.

 

[Zirakzigil]

I like how Canes fans, the ones familiar with these prospects, are saying it’s a decent/solid return for the Penguins, yet it’s a bunch of other fans saying how Dubas got bent over.

I hope Guentzel does well in Carolina and they go on a run. Think he should be a great fit there. I hope Koivunen and Ponomarev end up as good as Canes fans think they can be.

The prospects are interesting. And prospects are better than draft picks at this point. In the 3-5 years a draft pick will take to make the NHL, the Pens will be scorched earthing.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

sellers market i guess..

and i thought Dubas was the one who sucks,
the worst gm in the NHL..

 

[aquaweenie]

I’m a canucks fan that comes in peace hoping to avoid the BS.

I’ll say wow this is incredibly underwhelming after the hype was built up all week. I’m really happy the canucks didn’t trade any of Lekkermaki, Willander and Hoglander.

Happy for BC boy, the pride of Campbell River-Coach Rod Brind’Amour

 

[bleedgreen]

As a pure rental with no extension in place, absolutely. The line between a 2nd round pick and a 1st round pick is very fine and often vastly overstated. 2 2nd round picks > 1 late 1st round pick pretty much any draft in terms of expected value.

I still would have liked to see the conditional first tied to a possible extension though (i.e. becomes a first if carolina goes to SCF OR guentzel extends), but it would have required the 1st to be in 2025 rather than 2024.

And who knows what Crosby might do to Bunting's value.

Honestly I’ve been racking my brain for a comparable rental return and the closest I’ve come is Gretzky to the Blues. He brought back a 1st, 5th, Johnson, Tardiff and Vopat. Johnson was a bottom six guy, Vopat was a half decent prospect and I don’t remember Tardiff. This is comparable and could easily be a better return. That’s blowing my mind a bit right now.

 

[Quinning]

"Both this thread and the other Guentzel thread are just Canucks fans trying to rationalize how a package including a few of Raty, Podkolzin, Pettersson, a 2025 1st and a 2025 2nd is enough for the Canucks to get Guentzel."

I think you guys would be pretty happy with that now lmao

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Which offer was better? Canucks for Lindholm or Canes for Guentzal?

The Canes offer seems to have a higher a floor as there is a good chance you atleast get 1 NHL player out of those prospects.

But the Canucks offer has a higher ceiling with Hunter B and the guaranteed 1st with more "boom or bust" potential

Bunting >>>> Kuzmenko though

Get the feeling if the Canucks had held their powder dry, they could have gotten Guentzal for their 1st, Hunter B, Podkolzin and maybe Bains.

I'll take Kuzmenko over Bunting any day.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I like how Canes fans, the ones familiar with these prospects, are saying it’s a decent/solid return for the Penguins, yet it’s a bunch of other fans saying how Dubas got bent over.

I hope Guentzel does well in Carolina and they go on a run. Think he should be a great fit there. I hope Koivunen and Ponomarev end up as good as Canes fans think they can be.

The anti Dubas crowd was going to crap on the deal no matter what it was.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

soo much over payment, soo much

 

[Artemi Panarin]

I like how Canes fans, the ones familiar with these prospects, are saying it’s a decent/solid return for the Penguins, yet it’s a bunch of other fans saying how Dubas got bent over.

I hope Guentzel does well in Carolina and they go on a run. Think he should be a great fit there. I hope Koivunen and Ponomarev end up as good as Canes fans think they can be.

None of these prospects were on any of the 3000 wish lists you posted in the last 48 hours.