Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR/MTL] Habs accept Kotkaniemi offer sheet (1 year, $6.1M), 2022 1st, 2022 3rd [Part II]

[Junohockeyfan]

It’s one year and we have the cap space.

If he doesn’t perform to this salary range (which nobody expects him to) then no he does not have leverage to ask for the same. He can ask but he won’t get it.

And then he becomes a ufa and Canes wasted a 1st +. He has tons of leverage.

 

[tarheelhockey]

And then he becomes a ufa and Canes wasted a 1st +. He has tons of leverage.

If he thinks the Canes are going to chase a sunk cost, he’s welcome to try.

The 1st+ resolved a hole in our lineup for a season. Moving forward, it’s not about trying to get a return on that investment. It’s about what is Kotkaniemi’s performance level and what is an appropriate amount of money to pay him. Canes management isn’t trying to “win” a trade thread on HFBoards.

 

[Chrispy]

And then he becomes a ufa and Canes wasted a 1st +. He has tons of leverage.

If he wants to throw away a chance at a payday, yes. But it's unlikely he will find anything close to $6M on the open market either. And it's questionable whether he would get an offer close to Carolina's longer-term offer either, as Carolina was the only one who valued him enough to try this gambit.

And he cannot demand anything; the decision is completely Carolina's. Carolina can negotiate through the season and immediately after. If that fails, if Carolina feels he is worth another flier they can try to reduce his salary by team-elected arbitration. If he performs very well and wants a raise, they can match the QO. Or Carolina can walk away if he fails to perform, treating him as a rental that didn't work out.

All that said, I think Kotkaniemi may appreciate the team that got him out of Montreal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If he thinks the Canes are going to chase a sunk cost, he’s welcome to try.

The 1st+ resolved a hole in our lineup for a season. Moving forward, it’s not about trying to get a return on that investment. It’s about what is Kotkaniemi’s performance level and what is an appropriate amount of money to pay him. Canes management isn’t trying to “win” a trade thread on HFBoards.

You had a hole at LW for the 3rd line so you signed a center to an offer sheet so you can play him LW? I'm not buying that narrative cause you could have signed guys to fill that hole for cheaper and a higher proven production. But I will say that I am a fan of KK and I wish him the best with the Canes. Grudge match offer sheet revenge or not, I don't hate the kid. Good luck with him on wing and maybe Staal helps him but the Habs already tried KK on wing. Small sample sizes but it was not good.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

You had a hole at LW for the 3rd line so you signed a center to an offer sheet so you can play him LW? I'm not buying that narrative cause you could have signed guys to fill that hole for cheaper and a higher proven production. But I will say that I am a fan of KK and I wish him the best with the Canes. Grudge match offer sheet revenge or not, I don't hate the kid. Good luck with him on wing and maybe Staal helps him but the Habs already tried KK on wing. Small sample sizes but it was not good.

Just curious, who was available to sign for cheaper? Here are the UFA signings last year for players that didn't re-sign with their same team:

Coleman: 6 year, $29.4M. Long, expensive and not a legit top 6 player
Hyman: 7 year, $38.5M: No thanks on that contract.
Foligno: 2 years, $7.6M: Went back to his prior team and hasn't been top 6 material in 5 seasons.
Saad: 5 year, $22M: was rumored the Canes were talking to him, but he re-signed with the same team. EDIT: Chose STL
Hoffman: 3 years, $13.5M: Not a Brindy type player. Likely would have gone as well as Dzingel in Carolina
Granlund: Re-signed with same team
Haula: Been there, done that
Palmeri: Re-signed with his same team.
Tatar: 2 years, $9M: were rumors Canes were in on him, and I'd have been ok with that.

etc...etc..

So maybe Saad, who re-signed with his former team and maybe Tatar. Those were the realistic options.

People like to throw out the "they could have signed someone in UFA for cheaper", but this season, a) there weren't many legit options and b) it takes two to tango. A player has to want to sign with a team as much as a team wants to sign him and more often than not a team loses out unless they overpay. Canes specifically said they missed out on a couple of guys so it was clear they were trying for a more proven option.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Just curious, who was available to sign for cheaper? Here are the UFA signings last year for players that didn't re-sign with their same team:

Coleman: 6 year, $29.4M. Long, expensive and not a legit top 6 player
Hyman: 7 year, $38.5M: No thanks on that contract.
Foligno: 2 years, $7.6M: Went back to his prior team and hasn't been top 6 material in 5 seasons.
Saad: 5 year, $22M: was rumored the Canes were talking to him, but he re-signed with the same team.
Hoffman: 3 years, $13.5M: Not a Brindy type player. Likely would have gone as well as Dzingel in Carolina
Granlund: Re-signed with same team
Haula: Been there, done that
Palmeri: Re-signed with his same team.
Tatar: 2 years, $9M: were rumors Canes were in on him, and I'd have been ok with that.

etc...etc..

So maybe Saad, who re-signed with his former team and maybe Tatar. Those were the realistic options.

People like to throw out the "they could have signed someone in UFA for cheaper", but this season, a) there weren't many legit options and b) it takes two to tango. A player has to want to sign with a team as much as a team wants to sign him and more often than not a team loses out unless they overpay. Canes specifically said they missed out on a couple of guys so it was clear they were trying for a more proven option.

$6.1M for a 3rd line LW and then maybe $4M for a few more years after that. For a guy that barely has 3rd line production. I'm a fan of his potential but I believe it's a long growing pain process. Good luck! I'll be watching and hoping he does well

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

$6.1M for a 3rd line LW and then maybe $4M for a few more years after that. For a guy that barely has 3rd line production. I'm a fan of his potential but I believe it's a long growing pain process. Good luck! I'll be watching and hoping he does well

Don't get me wrong, I'm on record for saying I wasn't very fond of the move so you don't have to sell me on the concerns of his pay vs. performance/fit.

I was just commenting on the notion that the Canes could have gotten a more proven top winger for cheaper. From all accounts they were trying to do that and there weren't very many legit options available. I was just curious who you thought were those options since you made that statement.

$6M is pretty irrelevant to Carolina this year because they can afford it. Going forward, it remains to be seen how this plays out as I have doubts about it.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

You had a hole at LW for the 3rd line so you signed a center to an offer sheet so you can play him LW? I'm not buying that narrative cause you could have signed guys to fill that hole for cheaper and a higher proven production. But I will say that I am a fan of KK and I wish him the best with the Canes. Grudge match offer sheet revenge or not, I don't hate the kid. Good luck with him on wing and maybe Staal helps him but the Habs already tried KK on wing. Small sample sizes but it was not good.

Not at that point in the offseason. The market had already thinned out by the time Saad, the player the Canes wanted (Link), chose St. Louis. Kotkaniemi is an imperfect solution on paper, but when there's a need and a lot of 1 year cap space burning a hole in your pocket, the pivot is logical.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not at that point in the offseason. The market had already thinned out by the time Saad, the player the Canes wanted (Link), chose St. Louis. Kotkaniemi is an imperfect solution on paper, but when there's a need and a lot of 1 year cap space burning a hole in your pocket, the pivot is logical.

Could turn into a very good move or a very bad move. Or a meh move. It's too hard to predict

 

[Danrs112]

We're talking a few millions tax free, don't even need to be that careful. Most people making a decent salary won't gather that in a lifetime of work.

Not tax free lol

 

[Farmboy Patty]

Could turn into a very good move or a very bad move. Or a meh move. It's too hard to predict

You could work as a weatherman!

It is certainly a move.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You could work as a weatherman!

It is certainly a move.

60% accuracy and I get a raise right?

 

[Farmboy Patty]

60% accuracy and I get a raise right?

That gets you a promotion to daytime TV.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

I realize contracts are structured differently. But seeing the contracts of Dahlin, Thomas, Svech, etc roll in, I feel like KK's deal for 6.1 (giving him leverage next year for the same) is looking like a bad deal for the canes. KK could hit his ceiling making this a steal, but in no world is he worth more than Dahlin.

Of course he isn't worth 6.1 million. He got his contract through an offer sheet. If it was a team friendly contract, it would have been matched. If a team wants to have a successful offersheet, they're likely going to need to pay the player more than they are worth.

It is 100% a gamble for the Canes.

 

[ottawa]

We're talking a few millions tax free, don't even need to be that careful. Most people making a decent salary won't gather that in a lifetime of work.

I think you mean a few millions after tax, not tax free

 

[gwh]

And then he becomes a ufa and Canes wasted a 1st +. He has tons of leverage.

Now that is a hot take. Let s see how it plays out.

 

[Hins77]

Even as a Canes fan, I agree, but only in a vacuum.

The big story isn't so much Kotkaniemi switching teams. It's the fact that we had a successful offer sheet for the first time since 2007. Also, it's the fact that the offer sheet happened in a "predatory" way, making it really difficult for the Canadiens to match. We've never seen an offer sheet for such a young player go through, and we've never seen this poison pill before.

It's certainly possible that Kotkaniemi busts and never scores a single point for the Canes. But the whole act of the Canes getting JK from the Habs was a historical move for the league simply because it's never happened like this before. Also it happened at literally the most uninteresting time of the year, so we had nothing else to talk about.

. As a habs fans, don’t you have a little concern by the fact that rightly;. Yeah you won the offersheet? I mean, the montreal management, who been working with KK all season long, watched him 82 games and they still didnt want to match the offer, isnt concerning as a canes fan? In my point of view, i don’t know wich path his career is gonna take, but he will need to have a big step forward if he wants to be considered as an impact player. I read that canes management really like him during his draft year and rookie season. But now we are 3 years later…. I hope he is gonna get that step forward cause a first pick and a third will be expensive at the end

 

[japhi]

If he thinks the Canes are going to chase a sunk cost, he’s welcome to try.

The 1st+ resolved a hole in our lineup for a season. Moving forward, it’s not about trying to get a return on that investment. It’s about what is Kotkaniemi’s performance level and what is an appropriate amount of money to pay him. Canes management isn’t trying to “win” a trade thread on HFBoards.

What hole in the lineup does he solve for? You guys are stacked, you really needed to use a first on a 4th line c or third line winger?

Not bashing KK, I like the player, but for 1 year, 6mm and a 1st and 3rd hard to believe there weren’t better options to plug a whole in the lineup

 

[Jeune Poulet]

what a primadonna

The Habs treated him like a superstar since his first camp as a 18 years old.

They share the blame for his rotten attitude for letting him dictate where he should play as an 18 years old. They should have ignored his pleas of skipping the AHL when he clearly wasn't NHL material.

 

[jfhabs]

I think you mean a few millions after tax, not tax free

Yes exactly

 

[Heffyhoof]

The Habs treated him like a superstar since his first camp as a 18 years old.

They share the blame for his rotten attitude for letting him dictate where he should play as an 18 years old. They should have ignored his pleas of skipping the AHL when he clearly wasn't NHL material.

Why do fellow Habs fans feel the need to lie through their teeth to try and dunk on a kid who's gone? He didn't beg anything, he had a contract that in the NHL's own rules for players from other leagues would've obligated him to either play there or in the NHL. Also almost died from laughing at the 'treated him like a superstar' part.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You had a hole at LW for the 3rd line so you signed a center to an offer sheet so you can play him LW? I'm not buying that narrative cause you could have signed guys to fill that hole for cheaper and a higher proven production. But I will say that I am a fan of KK and I wish him the best with the Canes. Grudge match offer sheet revenge or not, I don't hate the kid. Good luck with him on wing and maybe Staal helps him but the Habs already tried KK on wing. Small sample sizes but it was not good.

What hole in the lineup does he solve for? You guys are stacked, you really needed to use a first on a 4th line c or third line winger?

Not bashing KK, I like the player, but for 1 year, 6mm and a 1st and 3rd hard to believe there weren’t better options to plug a whole in the lineup

Look at the Canes roster and find nine top-9 forwards without Kotkaniemi. They were looking at giving real minutes to Jordan Martinook or the corpse of Derek Stepan when the roster is fully healthy.

They needed a forward. There were no great options on the table by the time of the offer sheet. Yes they could’ve thrown some money at one more terrible player to plug in there. Instead they went for a guy with the upside to be a real contributor. Sure, it cost money and picks. Talent costs. That’s how teams get better, gaining talent rather than losing it.

 

[Kojo]

Here's my prediction as of now: 40 ish points and abysmal defensively.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Why do fellow Habs fans feel the need to lie through their teeth to try and dunk on a kid who's gone? He didn't beg anything, he had a contract that in the NHL's own rules for players from other leagues would've obligated him to either play there or in the NHL.

You clearly don't know how contracts work. It's perfectly legal for Europeans to go to the AHL right after they are drafted. These obligations you are speaking of are in your imagination.

No one's "dunking" on him. Kotkaniemi threatened to pout back in Europe if he didn't make the NHL and the Habs took the wrong decision when they conceded. Everyone involved, especially Kotkaniemi's advisers, deserve blame.

Young players usually think they are hot shit and always think they know everything and are ready for the next step. They want to rush things, this is a natural process. It's up to people who know better to slow the process down. The reality is, very few players can make the jump to the NHL at 18 yo without sacrificing on their long term potential. The NHL is not a development league and never will be.

It's also a huge jump for a very young person to suddenly be a high profile millionaire. It's a test of character for anyone. Even more so when you're 18 years old and did not deserve it. People underestimate the effect this has, and how sometimes it leads to screwed up opportunities and bad habits years later.

 

[Theodore450]

Look at the Canes roster and find nine top-9 forwards without Kotkaniemi. They were looking at giving real minutes to Jordan Martinook or the corpse of Derek Stepan when the roster is fully healthy.

They needed a forward. There were no great options on the table by the time of the offer sheet. Yes they could’ve thrown some money at one more terrible player to plug in there. Instead they went for a guy with the upside to be a real contributor. Sure, it cost money and picks. Talent costs. That’s how teams get better, gaining talent rather than losing it.

That is scary