Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR] Brett Pesce Agree to new contract (6 years, $4.025M AAV)

[Anton Dubinchuk]

If he was as good as many say he is in here I was thinking I would have heard of him by now.

Maybe you're not as big a hockey fan as you think you are...?

 

[RodTheBawd]

Let's hop off the "how do you not know who these guys are?" horse. It's not unreasonable for a non-flashy shutdown d-man in his second year playing for a small market (or any market, really) to be unknown to the vast majority of the hockey world.

 

[Cane mutiny]

That's your opinion.


I dont even think it's close to accurate.


He's not a #1 yet. Seth Jones is easily the best of that group and will only increase his gap going forward.


Klefbom is the 2nd best of that group, followed closely by Parayko and Slavin.

Pesce/Dumo are the bottom of that group, but I would agree Pesce is probably the favorable choice going forward. Although Dumolin certainly has more offensive upside simply due to the forwards he'll have the opportunity to play with.



But regardless, my point was all these guys are pretty close in terms of skill and all are within 1.5M of cap space. This 4-5.5M range is the new going rate for good, established young Dmen.

We'll likely see Werenski, Provorov, Chychrun, McAvoy, Hanifin, etc. sign similar contracts in the next couple of years also.

I may be wrong, but I think he was referring to the best DEAL, not necessarily comparing who the best PLAYER is. Your responses to these posts seem a touch bitter, not sure why.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Let's hop off the "how do you not know who these guys are?" horse. It's not unreasonable for a non-flashy shutdown d-man in his second year playing for a small market (or any market, really) to be unknown to the vast majority of the hockey world.

No issue with guys not having heard of him.

Just an issue with the rationale "I haven't heard of him, so he must not be as good as everyone is saying," instead of "I haven't heard of him but everyone is saying he's good, must be a gap in my own knowledge."

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

No issue with guys not having heard of him.

Just an issue with the rationale "I haven't heard of him, so he must not be as good as everyone is saying," instead of "I haven't heard of him but everyone is saying he's good, must be a gap in my own knowledge."

This.

Takes like 5 minutes of research to not make bonehead comments.

 

[KingTux]

Lets say its 2018

Slavin (5.3) - Pesce (4.025)
Hanifin (3 Probably a bridge deal) - Faulk (4.8)
Fleury (0.925) - TVR (Probably between 2.5-3.5)

That's around 20 millions

Insane work by Francis, and there will be Jake Bean coming in as well

 

[Esq]

This might turn out to be a great deal.

Or it might not.

My concern with these types of deals (including the Slavin deal) is that many defensemen regress once the league adjusts to them. Including guys that HF loved, and also signed long-term deals. Myers, Bogosian, Edler come to mind immediately. Not to mention neither Slavin nor Pesce has played a minute of NHL playoff hockey.

But, of course, HF is like "OMG STEAL." And someone will of course tell me I'm being silly because I just don't watch enough Canes hockey.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

This might turn out to be a great deal.

Or it might not.

My concern with these types of deals (including the Slavin deal) is that many defensemen regress once the league adjusts to them. Including guys that HF loved, and also signed long-term deals. Myers, Bogosian, Edler come to mind immediately. Not to mention neither Slavin nor Pesce has played a minute of NHL playoff hockey.

But, of course, HF is like "OMG STEAL." And someone will of course tell me I'm being silly because I just don't watch enough Canes hockey.

you're being silly because you do not watch enough canes hockey

 

[Esq]

you're being silly because you do not watch enough canes hockey

thanks, I needed that

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

thanks, I needed that

I mean, he's not wrong though. Just because you're aware of it doesn't invalidate the overwhelming positivity of the signing. Sure, Slavin or Pesce could turn into pumkins I guess but nothing in their resume has indicated that. They played their way onto the team and leapfrogged higher touted players with better pedigrees. Like I guess the McDavid signing could be terrible too if the league figures him out as well.

These are pretty low risk - high reward in the grand scheme of things and exactly what a team like Carolina needs to do. If they gave out bridge deals and their young players progressed as planned, they likely wouldn't be able to afford them once they hit UFA.

 

[Roboturner913]

This might turn out to be a great deal.

Or it might not.

My concern with these types of deals (including the Slavin deal) is that many defensemen regress once the league adjusts to them. Including guys that HF loved, and also signed long-term deals. Myers, Bogosian, Edler come to mind immediately. Not to mention neither Slavin nor Pesce has played a minute of NHL playoff hockey.

But, of course, HF is like "OMG STEAL." And someone will of course tell me I'm being silly because I just don't watch enough Canes hockey.

What exactly is there about Slavin and Pesce's games that you see as something that can be "adjusted" to? It's not like these are gimmicky offensive players with one good breakaway move or something. They're both solid positionally sound shutdown defensive dmen. Has the league ever adjusted to players like Vlasic or Hjarmalsson

 

[GoldiFox]

This might turn out to be a great deal.

Or it might not.

My concern with these types of deals (including the Slavin deal) is that many defensemen regress once the league adjusts to them. Including guys that HF loved, and also signed long-term deals. Myers, Bogosian, Edler come to mind immediately. Not to mention neither Slavin nor Pesce has played a minute of NHL playoff hockey.

But, of course, HF is like "OMG STEAL." And someone will of course tell me I'm being silly because I just don't watch enough Canes hockey.

Well... How much of Pesce/Slavin have you watched?

Regression can happen in anyone. What is for sure is that Slavin and Pesce have been absolutely rock solid defensive top-4 to top-pairing fixtures for about 1.5 straight seasons... without interruption, every single shift, in the hardest division in hockey, as 21-22 year old Rookies/Sophomores. I don't think there is a Canes fan alive that would disagree, because we watch the games and it is what it is. IMO players that consistent are unlikely to regress.

There is really nothing for the league to "adjust to". Slavin/Pesce aren't doing anything novel. They both are just big, mobile, highly intelligent players with outstanding gap control and defensive zone awareness. The only adjusting that can be done is coaches desperately trying to flatten their lines to shield some scoring from that pairing.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

There's not really a major hole in either players' defensive game for opposing forwards to exploit.

Anyway, Bogosian was never good, is soft as a chinchilla's coat and has injury problems; Myers was carried by Tallinder that year and....what's wrong with Edler? He was considered a great top pairing guy, the #1 guy on a dynamite 'Nucks team.

 

[Esq]

What exactly is there about Slavin and Pesce's games that you see as something that can be "adjusted" to? It's not like these are gimmicky offensive players with one good breakaway move or something. They're both solid positionally sound shutdown defensive dmen. Has the league ever adjusted to players like Vlasic or Hjarmalsson

MEV and Hjalms are top-5 (some might even argue top-3) shutdown defenseman in the league. I don't think they are the best comparison here.

My point is that we don't know enough about these players to assume these will be steals of contracts.

I'd at least like to see how they fare in the playoffs, personally.

 

[GoldiFox]

MEV and Hjalms are top-5 (some might even argue top-3) shutdown defenseman in the league. I don't think they are the best comparison here.

My point is that we don't know enough about these players to assume these will be steals of contracts.

I'd at least like to see how they fare in the playoffs, personally.

Slavin is a 22 year old Vlasic. He is literally the best comparable.

 

[bleedgreen]

MEV and Hjalms are top-5 (some might even argue top-3) shutdown defenseman in the league. I don't think they are the best comparison here.

My point is that we don't know enough about these players to assume these will be steals of contracts.

I'd at least like to see how they fare in the playoffs, personally.

They've been a top four pairing since literally the days they showed up on recall early two seasons ago. They play against the best players the other team has. They play the hardest minutes available on a mediocre team desperate for players who can take the assignments and the moment they showed an ability to handle it the coach borderline overused them.

I know it's a different position with an 10-20 game difference but to me it's similar to saying you don't know what you have in Panarin because it's too small a sample. At their positions for the canes they've had as much an impact defensively as Panarin has offensively. From the moment they arrived it was obvious these two Canes were raising the play of the team and were better than just about everyone on their team at defense. Panarin had Kane, the Canes had Faulk but many of us thought they were better than Faulk defensively from the get go.

There's been plenty of sample size for these two. Vlasic is a reasonable comparable for Slavin. Pesce is different with his skating and maybe has a loose comparability to Hammer in approach but they don't look remotely similar.

I don't think either contract is a steal, but canes fans are happy they have them signed for reasonable prices when both could've asked for the moon based on what they've acccomplished so far. They could've forced the canes hands and made the future of the team look less bright by soaking up more of the available cash. I think they are getting paid right at the spot they should be paid, and with inflation if the players don't improve and just hold steady it will be good value. If they improve and as you say do well on the playoffs then they become fantastic deals.

Teams overpay a lot, Canes fans have good reason to be happy. They can afford this future so far.

 

[stymie]

Francis is a wizard, still.

 

[Roboturner913]

MEV and Hjalms are top-5 (some might even argue top-3) shutdown defenseman in the league.

Slavin has been drawing comparisons to Vlasic for 2 years now. Pesce is probably more comparable to Dumoulin except more physical and a little better offensively.

Regardless, I wasn't make a "this guy is as good as this guy" comparison, I was making a stylistic comparison.

So if NHL teams haven't found a specific flaw that makes those other guys prone to be "adjusted to" then it's doubtful they will for Slavin and Pesce to be "adjusted to" as well.

And frankly, two seasons of very solid play from both guys is more than enough sample size to declare them what they are at the NHL level. It's not a mirage or a fluke or anything else you might want to say. Nobody would be making that claim if they were 1st round picks instead of 3rd and 4th round picks. Frankly, I think it's high time people start realize that the US college system is producing the best young defensemen in the game right now.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Fort Knox putting in work. What a steal of a deal for the Canes.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Let's hop off the "how do you not know who these guys are?" horse. It's not unreasonable for a non-flashy shutdown d-man in his second year playing for a small market (or any market, really) to be unknown to the vast majority of the hockey world.

I think you are missing the point of those posts Rod. As AD said, no issue with someone not being familiar with Pesce. Issue is him saying he must not be that good because he hasn't heard of him. Some pretty silly reasoning.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

This might turn out to be a great deal.

Or it might not.

My concern with these types of deals (including the Slavin deal) is that many defensemen regress once the league adjusts to them. Including guys that HF loved, and also signed long-term deals. Myers, Bogosian, Edler come to mind immediately. Not to mention neither Slavin nor Pesce has played a minute of NHL playoff hockey.

But, of course, HF is like "OMG STEAL." And someone will of course tell me I'm being silly because I just don't watch enough Canes hockey.

I remember last off season a poster saying Slavin and Pesce would have sophomore slumps because "the league would adjust to them". The poster was convinced.

 

[Roboturner913]

I remember that too. I think it was in the oh-so-memorable, oh-so-stupid "dead last" thread.

 

[stepdad gaary]

seems like a similar player to Brian Dumoulin and signed a similar contract. seems fair

 

[tarheelhockey]

seems like a similar player to Brian Dumoulin and signed a similar contract. seems fair

Solid comparable.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

I remember that too. I think it was in the oh-so-memorable, oh-so-stupid "dead last" thread.

Oh god, what a train wreck that was. It seemed like every other person was guessing Columbus, Carolina, or Toronto.