Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2024-25 Summer Edition

Kazer

Registered User
Jun 20, 2009
515
292
Maryland, US
The eternal question though is how you assign quality of competition. Can't be using the grades from your own model it'd be self-referential, so you've got to pick another metric.

If you're using points that's a small sample size that's going to be extremely swing-y, especially early in the season. Something like xGF/60 might be better, but now you're cutting finishing ability out of the equation. By that metric Ovie's barely better than Dowd or Raddysh, but his actual GF/60 is much higher because as you'd expect, he and his linemates are better finishers.

You could use TOI, but teams don't give ice time purely based on offensive ability. Dowd's 2nd on the Caps in ES TOI/g, while Ovie's down at 7th, so if you go purely by TOI then playing against Ovie would be considered easier usage than playing against Dowd. Even by overall TOI Dowd gets a full two minutes a night more than Protas because Protas isn't on the PP, but he's still obviously the much harder opponent. There's going to be a ton of noise there that'll make it less useful as a metric.

Also, do you account for the usage of the opponents? The Strome line outproduces the PLD line, but they get a lot more offensive zone starts than the PLD line, so do you weight that into the model? Is an individual DZ start against the PLD line necessarily easier than one against the Strome line now that you're holding where the shift starts constant?

And this has all been talking about the offensive quality of the competition. How do you go about measuring the defensive quality of the competition? That's a really key thing here, and why I keep making the Ovie-Dowd comparison, because while Ovie is a harder assignment for a guy whose role is to defend, Dowd is the harder assignment for a guy whose role is to attack. If you try to make a one-size-fits-all metric for QoC you lose the ability to make that differentiation. You basically need two separate metrics for offensive and defensive quality, and the latter is really hard to do and basically the reason we want a QoC metric in the first place and it all loops back around and in on itself and we're kind of hitting on the core reason why it's so hard to do analytics with sports where the same guy contributes to offense and defense simultaneously.

Sorry, that got way longer than I thought it'd be!
It's challenging for xG too. I disagree with what @Midnight_Judges said that xG is garbage, but it's definitely weird sometimes. A slam dunk 2-on-1 goal is somehow lower xG than what I perceive to be a relatively low quality chance (maybe it's a higher danger area but the goalie is set and square to the shooter).

The data/models continue to improve though.

FWIW, xGs are a bit overrated for players (though a decent metric for measuring chance generation) and not particularly useful for measuring individual games. It is quite useful in looking at long-term performances. Like, I'm sure nobody is surprised that our xG this year is WAY higher than last year. That matches the old eye test. We're clearly generating far more shots and chances than last year.

To your actual points, on QoC, I'm pretty sure most of the major models like JFresh use a weighting system including data from the past two seasons in addition to the current season. While that's obviously inherently flawed to some extent, it helps smooth out some of the early season swings that you described. I'm pretty sure JFresh's model weighs the current season most heavily, the last season in the middle, and two seasons ago the lightest.
 

wickedwitch

Registered User
Mar 21, 2010
1,430
405
A quote: "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

xG is a model. Like all models, it has its flaws, and its useful to understand those flaws if you use xG as a stat.
 

usiel

Where wolf’s ears are, wolf’s teeth are near.
Sponsor
Jul 29, 2002
15,805
4,605
Klendathu
www.myspace.com
That’s awesome. Again, you’re my hero, lol. If I may ask, what song was it?

I forget what you’ve said you play primarily - bass? Or also guitar?

Sry for the 20 questions,I just like talking shop and it’s been a minute since I’ve played out. My performing amp and giant MIDI pedalboard have been in my living room since COVID, ha.
I was trying to remember when writing that post let me look at the tracks....Ah it was track one Cowboys in Hell.

Bass player. Was a fun metal band back then but a little behind the curve on the thrash genre and its life span. We definitely were the best metal band in the DC/Baltimore area for a few years. Got to record a three demo of at Pyramid Studios in Ithaca NY with Alex Perialas (he was instrumental in coming up that the thrash metal guitar sound especially with Anthrax/Stormtroopers of Death.

My last band/project was the most successful was more heavy rock. Signed to an indie label, recorded a real pro album and even filmed a video (both ended up never getting released due to the label farsically not able to come to an agreement with a distributor for a few years. Got to play at CBGBs a couple of times before it went away. About the only venue we didn't get in in the DC/Baltimore area with the new 9:30 club.

One of the tracks from that unreleased album:



Ah, the Bayou. I recall seeing Egypt there a lot, and Scatterbrain, and the rest is a blur.

My band was slated to open for Pantera in 1995 or 1996 on the Far Beyond Driven tour when they were with Type O Negative but they decided no local bands at the last minute. Lame. My future wife hung out with Dime and Vinnie at the mall, though.

I didn't get into the Dead until much later. It wasn't that my tastes weren't diverse, I'd just never done more than dip a toe. But when I got it, I got it.
Man trying to remember if I ever saw Egypt or not. My first foray to the Bayou was in '87 to see Megadeth (Peace Sells album tour) and Overkill (taking over). Was underage so my dad, who worked in DC, went down during the day and talked to the club manager and managed to make a deal with her that we could get in for the show (my dad had to come also). Definitely one of the peak cool dad moments. Still have ticket stub. And the show was bad ass. Tbh my bro and I were more into Overkill than Megadeth.

Ran into the main guitar player of Overkill in '91 Foundations Forum in LA (was the biggest metal/rock thing like SXSW is now) and totally fangirled on Bengt Gustafson (believe that was his name). Also talked with Alice and Chains drummers for like an hour completely wasted I have no recollection of the conversation at an invite label thing. Best thing was seeing Pearl Jam play like acoustic version of tracks from the album Ten before it came out in a label booth. Both my singer and I after a couple of songs looked at each other and said these guys SUCK, hah.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: g00n

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
31,213
15,764
I was trying to remember when writing that post let me look at the tracks....Ah it was track one Cowboys in Hell.

Bass player. Was a fun metal band back then but a little behind the curve on the thrash genre and its life span. We definitely were the best metal band in the DC/Baltimore area for a few years. Got to record a three demo of at Pyramid Studios in Ithaca NY with Alex Perialas (he was instrumental in coming up that the thrash metal guitar sound especially with Anthrax/Stormtroopers of Death.

My last band/project was the most successful was more heavy rock. Signed to an indie label, recorded a real pro album and even filmed a video (both ended up never getting released due to the label farsically not able to come to an agreement with a distributor for a few years. Got to play at CBGBs a couple of times before it went away. About the only venue we didn't get in in the DC/Baltimore area with the new 9:30 club.

One of the tracks from that unreleased album:




Man trying to remember if I ever saw Egypt or not. My first foray to the Bayou was in '87 to see Megadeth (Peace Sells album tour) and Overkill (taking over). Was underage so my dad, who worked in DC, went down during the day and talked to the club manager and managed to make a deal with her that we could get in for the show (my dad had to come also). Definitely one of the peak cool dad moments. Still have ticket stub. And the show was bad ass. Tbh my bro and I were more into Overkill than Megadeth.

Ran into the main guitar player of Overkill in '91 Foundations Forum in LA (was the biggest metal/rock thing like SXSW is now) and totally fangirled on Bengt Gustafson (believe that was his name). Also talked with Alice and Chains drummers for like an hour completely wasted I have no recollection of the conversation at an invite label thing. Best thing was seeing Pearl Jam play like acoustic version of tracks from the album Ten before it came out in a label booth. Both my singer and I after a couple of songs looked at each other and said these guys SUCK, hah.


I'll have to watch the vid later when I can crank it.

What a great time to be a metal head.

I have a few things on Spotify now but haven't pursued the music biz in decades. Still miss playing out. My old bass player was on Ozzfest with Motograter as one of the guitarists in the 90s. He's the guy with incredibly long hair. He went on to be a legal weed farmer. Our drummer eventually died from heroin. Man he was f***ing good. RIP.

What could have been...
 

usiel

Where wolf’s ears are, wolf’s teeth are near.
Sponsor
Jul 29, 2002
15,805
4,605
Klendathu
www.myspace.com
I'll have to watch the vid later when I can crank it.

What a great time to be a metal head.

I have a few things on Spotify now but haven't pursued the music biz in decades. Still miss playing out. My old bass player was on Ozzfest with Motograter as one of the guitarists in the 90s. He's the guy with incredibly long hair. He went on to be a legal weed farmer. Our drummer eventually died from heroin. Man he was f***ing good. RIP.

What could have been...
Nirvana sort of killed the metal scene. Of course Metallica was so scared they put out the black album. Really wasn't till Korn came in mid-90s with a different enough style get heaviness alive against the Pearl Jams/Soundgardens etc..
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad