Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2023 Off-season

[Alexander the Gr8]

He really misses being able to tuck his jersey

I think he should start doing it again. The rule is stupid, it’s his iconic look, and I don’t think a single ref in the league would have the balls to call a 2 min minor on him for that reason.

 

[HTFN]

I think he should start doing it again. The rule is stupid, it’s his iconic look, and I don’t think a single ref in the league would have the balls to call a 2 min minor on him for that reason.

"2 minutes for tucking, I couldn't figure out which one was Alexander Ovechkin"

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think he should start doing it again. The rule is stupid, it’s his iconic look, and I don’t think a single ref in the league would have the balls to call a 2 min minor on him for that reason.

The league would just warn him then fine him. I joke that it’s retired for 99….that’s whose look it was really iconic for. That’s how I played….such a fun look.

 

[Ridley Simon]

It’s a dumb rule. Let them wear their stuff as they please. As long as it’s not a safety thing

 

[HTFN]

The league would just warn him then fine him. I joke that it’s retired for 99….that’s whose look it was really iconic for. That’s how I played….such a fun look.

People used to ask me why I tucked mine the way I did (because it was a partial really) and I always just had to say I had no idea. Something about the way my pants fit on me, how I skated and shot ended up with like a right half/three quarters tuck.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Im also team tuck. Im tall and skinny and my jerseys are pretty baggy after I retired the shoulder pads. Im like a 90s goalie out there without a tuck.

Also liked rolling up the elbows but thats not allowed anymore either.

 

[StrikingDistance]

Never a tucker but this song was enjoyed by my favorite tucker.

 

[twabby]

Of interest to nobody but me, but Washington hasn't made any new analytical hires since at least 2019 while most other teams have grown their analytics staff since then.

Washington has also been on a steady decline since 2019. The causality is clear. Fire the Hockey Men, hire more computer people.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Im also team tuck. Im tall and skinny and my jerseys are pretty baggy after I retired the shoulder pads. Im like a 90s goalie out there without a tuck.

Also liked rolling up the elbows but thats not allowed anymore either.

Yep, the baggy thing was an issue…I’m a right shot/right tucker, felt like it freed up my shooting motion a bit, but it was more about the look to me honestly.

 

[Corby78]

Im also team tuck. Im tall and skinny and my jerseys are pretty baggy after I retired the shoulder pads. Im like a 90s goalie out there without a tuck.

Also liked rolling up the elbows but thats not allowed anymore either.

Same, I always did the one side tuck and sleeves pulled up onto the bottom of the elbow pads.

 

[HTFN]

Yep, the baggy thing was an issue…I’m a right shot/right tucker, felt like it freed up my shooting motion a bit, but it was more about the look to me honestly.

See, I’m a left shot but it was the right side that rode up and into the hip, must be a follow through thing (or gear profile)

I also had a real affinity for the Semin inside plant foot shot which really stretches the kick side

 

[usiel]

See, I’m a left shot but it was the right side that rode up and into the hip, must be a follow through thing (or gear profile)

I also had a real affinity for the Semin inside plant foot shot which really stretches the kick side

I generally didn't care, being a right shot, of my foot position even though I sacrificed power was more shooting unexpectedly.

Though I am right hand dominant for writing when I started playing hockey in my early 20s RH always felt natural. That said in the beginning I could have rolled with the left handed shot. Ultimately it just felt more natural. Off topic but maybe related I am ambi when it comes to pistol shooting and a hard core left handed with long guns (also left eye dominant).

 

[Jags]

Right-shot tuck, pretty tall. I just never liked the tug any time you bent at the waist for anything -- some shooting motions, faceoffs, even sitting on the bench. You hunch, the back of your sweater drags, gets worse when you sweat.

Still don't get what the big deal is. The Kings can wear tin foil hats but Ovi can't tuck his jersey? Pfft.

 

[HTFN]

I generally didn't care, being a right shot, of my foot position even though I sacrificed power was more shooting unexpectedly.

Though I am right hand dominant for writing when I started playing hockey in my early 20s RH always felt natural. That said in the beginning I could have rolled with the left handed shot. Ultimately it just felt more natural. Off topic but maybe related I am ambi when it comes to pistol shooting and a hard core left handed with long guns (also left eye dominant).

I personally thought my lefty shot off my left foot was as good as my traditional sweep through type of wrister. To be fair, I practiced it a lot, used to spend a lot of time on the wood net handling the puck behind my body (like plant the feet, try to handle between the lines "projected" by your heels) and got really used to releasing from that behind the body torque point, like Semin in Ottawa. Realized if you can treat your body like a trebuchet, which is really what the hockey stick is, you can create a lot of non-traditional points of torque.

Scored more than one goal from behind the goal line playing with those kick points, loved shots where I couldn't actually see the front of the net. One will go with me to the grave, still get tickled by it.

 

[Jags]

Off topic but maybe related I am ambi when it comes to pistol shooting and a hard core left handed with long guns (also left eye dominant).

Same here. Useless lefty with everything but guns, ambi with pistols, fully lefty with rifles. But I've also been hit in the head a lot, so I'm probably just goofy.

 

[twabby]

Cristall rose through ranks with Bedard, hopes for future with Capitals | NHL.com

Forward prospect was friend, teammate, foe of No. 1 pick in 2023 NHL Draft

www.nhl.com

Washington assistant general manager Ross Mahoney praised Cristall's hands and hockey sense during development camp, saying strength and speed are areas he needs to work on.

"[The strength coaches are] going to give him a plan to work off the ice to improve his leg strength, which will probably help him with his sort of overall speed," Mahoney said. "He's got really good edges. He can turn and change directions really quickly and he's got a really good change of pace. It's just a matter of that top-end speed."

This is a very encouraging scouting report on Cristall. If top-end speed and strength are his main weaknesses but he has strong hockey sense, hands, and quickness then he really seems like he can become a great player.

If this were a video game and you had attribute sliders but only a fixed amount of ability points, I’d try to max out hockey sense, hands, and quickness and wouldn’t worry about size or top-end speed.

Definitely the most interesting and highest end prospect in the system IMO.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Cristall rose through ranks with Bedard, hopes for future with Capitals | NHL.com

Forward prospect was friend, teammate, foe of No. 1 pick in 2023 NHL Draft

www.nhl.com

This is a very encouraging scouting report on Cristall. If top-end speed and strength are his main weaknesses but he has strong hockey sense, hands, and quickness then he really seems like he can become a great player.

If this were a video game and you had attribute sliders but only a fixed amount of ability points, I’d try to max out hockey sense, hands, and quickness and wouldn’t worry about size or top-end speed.

Definitely the most interesting and highest end prospect in the system IMO.

Highest End?

Over Miro, Leonard, Iorio, HAH, and Lapierre?

Bold statement, Cotton

 

[Langway]

Highest pure offensive upside in the system? Probably. Best dekes and backhand? Also yes. He could stand to be a deadlier sniper, more gritty and better off the puck generally. Similar to Suzdalev there are plenty of junior style habits that must be cleaned up to translating that skilled game against grown ass men. But the Caps can afford to wait and see on that.

Leonard has much too high a floor but after that I guess I could see a case for Cristall. That's mostly because I still don't know how close Miro in some of those detail areas. But Miro's frame and power game should make for at least a much easier physical transition. We should do another round of prospect rankings now that it's somewhat interesting...

 

[twabby]

Highest End?

Over Miro, Leonard, Iorio, HAH, and Lapierre?

Bold statement, Cotton

Yeah I think so. I'd rank them Cristall, Leonard, and Miroshnichenko in that order right now. Then the rest. Of those 3 Cristall is probably the furthest from the NHL timewise, but I also think he's going to have the best NHL career of the bunch when all is said and done. Cristall's production surpasses everyone else in the system right now and while I understand the concerns about some of his weaknesses I'm not convinced those weaknesses are enough to outweigh his strengths.

I think there's a good chance that Cristall could be the next Robertson/DeBrincat: a guy who fell to the second round because of more superficial concerns despite putting up excellent numbers.

 

[HTFN]

Yeah I think so. I'd rank them Cristall, Leonard, and Miroshnichenko in that order right now. Then the rest. Of those 3 Cristall is probably the furthest from the NHL timewise, but I also think he's going to have the best NHL career of the bunch when all is said and done. Cristall's production surpasses everyone else in the system right now and while I understand the concerns about some of his weaknesses I'm not convinced those weaknesses are enough to outweigh his strengths.

I think there's a good chance that Cristall could be the next Robertson/DeBrincat: a guy who fell to the second round because of more superficial concerns despite putting up excellent numbers.

Is the superficial concern his size or his skating? If size, well, sure.

If it's the skating there's nothing superficial about wondering if a guy will keep finding his areas in the pro game. Don't get me wrong, I like him a lot, I think we've already done this once before but all the excellent edges in the world aren't going to help you get up and down the ice with everybody or get to the soft spots fast enough for it to matter. Things like loose puck retrieval, for example, become a lot tougher when you're small and not likely to be there first.

There's a reason he's being told to focus on legs post-development camp and it's the same one that kept showing up in his draft profile. There are some really talented AHL tweeners who also can't do it. Having great hockey sense will help, but it may not be enough outright.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I think we are underselling Miro and Leonard quite a bit. Miro in particular. He is seemingly a man among boys right now, and I think it will continue to translate.

Leonard is looking like more of a combo Wilson/Oshie type. Like their hybrid son. Tough and big and mean, but not quite as much as TW — but also good hands a wonderful shot, but not quite as good as TJO. However, good stuff.

 

[twabby]

Is the superficial concern his size or his skating? If size, well, sure.

If it's the skating there's nothing superficial about wondering if a guy will keep finding his areas in the pro game. Don't get me wrong, I like him a lot, I think we've already done this once before but all the excellent edges in the world aren't going to help you get up and down the ice with everybody or get to the soft spots fast enough for it to matter. Things like loose puck retrieval, for example, become a lot tougher when you're small and not likely to be there first.

There's a reason he's being told to focus on legs post-development camp and it's the same one that kept showing up in his draft profile. There are some really talented AHL tweeners who also can't do it. Having great hockey sense will help, but it may not be enough outright.

This applies to every attribute though. Slower skaters might have trouble getting to their spots. Smaller skaters might have trouble with fighting through checks and interference. Bad shooters might not be able to beat NHL goalies as cleanly. Players with poor IQ won’t be able to create as easily against NHL defenses. Etc.

Put another way: if two players had equal impacts at the junior level but player A was a better skater than player B then there’s no reason for me to believe that player A will be a better pro.

Player B certainly must have been better in other areas than Player A in order to have equal overall impacts pre-draft. Why won’t those relative advantages carry forward into the pros?

My more cynical (but perhaps correct) belief is that scouts rely on first impressions way too much. You can tell in a few minutes whether a player is a good skater. Or if he’s small. It doesn’t take much to figure those types of things out out. But hockey IQ, vision, etc. often takes an extensive period of time to discern. And how can you objectively judge those attributes when you always see this player skating through mud or getting muscled off pucks at times? On the other hand how can you accurately critique a player’s IQ when he’s running people over or flying down the ice? It’s hard! I know scouts are professionals paid to provide fair evaluations, but let’s not pretend they’re any different than other jobs. People are lazy at their jobs. They have inherent biases. Especially since a lot of scouts are just former players.

There are too many players to scout and there’s too little time to really make accurate and complete evaluations.

Points and equivalency models aren’t perfect. They’re far from it. But at least it’s objective and complete data. They also tend to outperform that actual draft in terms of measuring impacts at the pro level.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

For arguments sake, I'll consider CMM/Protas as graduating...

I have Miro/Leonard tentatively tied at the top, and Cristall not too far behind. I believe skating can almost always be improved from what is perceived as an issue in Juniors. I believe Wilson had that tag on him initially and he turned out great! I expect the same improvement is likely for Cristall.

Another reason he fell was some perception of a "me-first" attitude. Some scouting I read alluded to him going out of his way to undress opposition players but then end up in position where another opponent would immediately take the puck from him. All when he could have made a simpler, less flashy play initially that would have ended up being more effective. I believe that can also be easily cured as much of that comes from just having great hands and there being less skilled opponents in Junior. Coaching and maturity should stem that as an issue.

I think we may be surprised by Miro. Just a gut feeling, buttressed by his statement he intends to make the team this fall. Even if he doesn't he seems like a special, determined, and focused kid. Suzy and Darkhorse Trineyev may also be more in the mix that we expect in 2 or 3 years.

Leonard is going to be one.of our favorites. Oshie baby 2.0 but more.

 

[HTFN]

This applies to every attribute though. Slower skaters might have trouble getting to their spots. Smaller skaters might have trouble with fighting through checks and interference. Bad shooters might not be able to beat NHL goalies as cleanly. Players with poor IQ won’t be able to create as easily against NHL defenses. Etc.

Put another way: if two players had equal impacts at the junior level but player A was a better skater than player B then there’s no reason for me to believe that player A will be a better pro.

Player B certainly must have been better in other areas than Player A in order to have equal overall impacts pre-draft. Why won’t those relative advantages carry forward into the pros?

My more cynical (but perhaps correct) belief is that scouts rely on first impressions way too much. You can tell in a few minutes whether a player is a good skater. Or if he’s small. It doesn’t take much to figure those types of things out out. But hockey IQ, vision, etc. often takes an extensive period of time to discern. And how can you objectively judge those attributes when you always see this player skating through mud or getting muscled off pucks at times? On the other hand how can you accurately critique a player’s IQ when he’s running people over or flying down the ice? It’s hard! I know scouts are professionals paid to provide fair evaluations, but let’s not pretend they’re any different than other jobs. People are lazy at their jobs. They have inherent biases. Especially since a lot of scouts are just former players.

There are too many players to scout and there’s too little time to really make accurate and complete evaluations.

Points and equivalency models aren’t perfect. They’re far from it. But at least it’s objective and complete data. They also tend to outperform that actual draft in terms of measuring impacts at the pro level.

You are way overselling your scouting ability, or underselling actual scouts. None of this is new or revolutionary, tools stand out. How they’re used is a different struggle. We’ve all seen wheels and hands fall at the whims of the pro game, this isn’t news that one or two tools can make you supersized in Junior and fail to be a pro.

But when somebody slips and there is one reason why, there’s still a reason. There is no guarantee that rate and impact stats will transfer when movement is the question mark.

This is a good time to remember we’re all cheering for the same team here. I don’t want them to be wrong, I like the pick, but you’re misunderstanding how hockey actually works doing this. How many cut and paste NHLe projections are you missing because they didn’t pan out due to some reason you’ll explain away later but didn’t make sense at the time? It’s a decent amount, I’d be willing to bet. More drafted players have good expectations than make it

 

[twabby]

You are way overselling your scouting ability, or underselling actual scouts. None of this is new or revolutionary, tools stand out. How they’re used is a different struggle. We’ve all seen wheels and hands fall at the whims of the pro game, this isn’t news that one or two tools can make you supersized in Junior and fail to be a pro.

But when somebody slips and there is one reason why, there’s still a reason. There is no guarantee that rate and impact stats will transfer when movement is the question mark.

This is a good time to remember we’re all cheering for the same team here. I don’t want them to be wrong, I like the pick, but you’re misunderstanding how hockey actually works doing this. How many cut and paste NHLe projections are you missing because they didn’t pan out due to some reason you’ll explain away later but didn’t make sense at the time? It’s a decent amount, I’d be willing to bet. More drafted players have good expectations than make it

I have zero scouting ability. I can acknowledge that. I have no desire to watch children play hockey. I don’t even like watching the pros play!

But the fact is simple NHLe models consistently outperform teams when it comes to projecting future player impacts. Meaning had teams simply picked players with the highest remaining NHLe score their draft would have performed better than what they actually ended up drafting in terms of WAR impact. I might not be a good scout, but I am very good at determining if one number is bigger than another number.

This isn’t to say that NHLe models are necessarily right on Cristall being a top 10 talent. Nothing is perfect. But the models have a better overall track record than scouts and until I’m given a good reason to believe NHLe is wrong on Cristall’s ilk compared to how often scouts are wrong I’m going to favor what the models say.