Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2023 Off-season

[SecretaryofDefense5]

I’m dumb founded how for five years this core has produced zero success and yet somehow there are so many “untouchables”. Should there be no change this off season, it feels like mgmt has become far too attached to certain players on this roster. How can there be so many untouchables on such an unsuccessful team?

 

[Jags]

Everything that we say here is DOA.

No, but there's a point where an idea has been exhausted and it's time to either come up with a different idea or come back to reality. You've done the "Let's trade Tom" thing. Time to retire the act and come up with some new bits.

I’m dumb founded how for five years this core has produced zero success and yet somehow there are so many “untouchables”.

Not sure I'm following. Ovi is untouchable. Wilson you could probably pry out of most fans' hands with the right overpay. There's some prospects we'd sure like to keep unless it's for someone outstanding. Everyone else can go.

The problem is that nobody wants our Everyone Elses because they're mostly broken toys that we pay a LOT of money. So to get rid of them we'd have to give up some of those keeper prospects or future 1sts and 2nds that we'll really need for when the broken toys leave. So we're stuck.

But we have a creative GM that appears to have good relationships around the league, so cross your fingers that he can find a way to get us out of one or two of those messes.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

No, but there's a point where an idea has been exhausted and it's time to either come up with a different idea or come back to reality. You've done the "Let's trade Tom" thing. Time to retire the act and come up with some new bits.



Not sure I'm following. Ovi is untouchable. Wilson you could probably pry out of most fans' hands with the right overpay. There's some prospects we'd sure like to keep unless it's for someone outstanding. Everyone else can go.

The problem is that nobody wants our Everyone Elses because they're mostly broken toys that we pay a LOT of money. So to get rid of them we'd have to give up some of those keeper prospects or future 1sts and 2nds that we'll really need for when the broken toys leave. So we're stuck.

But we have a creative GM that appears to have good relationships around the league, so cross your fingers that he can find a way to get us out of one or two of those messes.

Totally get that. It just feels every time a player is mentioned there is a “oh we can’t trade him”. And I hate to point out the obvious but if we have a ton of players no one wants…whose fault is that?

 

[HTFN]

I’m dumb founded how for five years this core has produced zero success and yet somehow there are so many “untouchables”. Should there be no change this off season, it feels like mgmt has become far too attached to certain players on this roster. How can there be so many untouchables on such an unsuccessful team?

This one doesn't seem super complicated to me.

Ovechkin: obvious
Backstrom: it's here or retire, nobody's taking that
Wilson: actually good and worth keeping
Oshie: probably closer to Backstrom than anybody else
Kuznetsov: we just saw the buyouts and what the market is for bad contracts on established players.... it's a tough sell. It's not that he's labeled untouchable it's that he's virtually untradeable anyway.
Carlson: probably somebody you keep, similar trade market issues but also don't get rid of any 1D without a feasible replacement.

Who else? Mantha's only got a year left so the bet is just that he can rebound to be more beneficial than the assets they may (or may not) get to trade him.

Are there other untouchables?

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

This one doesn't seem super complicated to me.

Ovechkin: obvious
Backstrom: it's here or retire, nobody's taking that
Wilson: actually good and worth keeping
Oshie: probably closer to Backstrom than anybody else
Kuznetsov: we just saw the buyouts and what the market is for bad contracts on established players.... it's a tough sell. It's not that he's labeled untouchable it's that he's virtually untradeable anyway.
Carlson: probably somebody you keep, similar trade market issues but also don't get rid of any 1D without a feasible replacement.

Who else? Mantha's only got a year left so the bet is just that he can rebound to be more beneficial than the assets they may (or may not) get to trade him.

Are there other untouchables?

Outside of Ovi and Backstrom, I’d argue there should be no untouchables.As Kevin Garnett said, “anything is possible”. If you’re telling me no one wants anyone on the roster then how is BMac so praised? I’d say that is royally screwing the pooch.

 

[Kalopsia]

I’m dumb founded how for five years this core has produced zero success and yet somehow there are so many “untouchables”. Should there be no change this off season, it feels like mgmt has become far too attached to certain players on this roster. How can there be so many untouchables on such an unsuccessful team?

Different kinds of untouchables. Some are untouchable because they’re so valuable to the franchise, some are untouchable because no other team will touch ’em with a 10-foot pole. Most of them are the latter.

 

[HTFN]

Outside of Ovi and Backstrom, I’d argue there should be no untouchables.As Kevin Garnett said, “anything is possible”. If you’re telling me no one wants anyone on the roster then how is BMac so praised? I’d say that is royally screwing the pooch.

Because a lot of these things work in timed windows and it's not always a guarantee how they shake out. Like... if everything else stayed the same but Kuznetsov didn't suck they'd probably still be a playoff team this year. The Oshie contract always had some bad years on the end of it but some of us thought he'd be closer to dead than still scoring by now.

I don't think the Capitals are devoid of assets, but we're not just considering what they can sell for the maximum return because they're still trying to compete and win games. If people want to trade prospects or picks for Fever does that actually move the needle, or is this window better suited with the NHL player? Could they probably get something for Dowd right now? Yeah, he was one of the best checking centers in the entire NHL last year, but it's smarter to keep him for hard minutes.

It's not that the players are all completely undesirable, it's that they're desired for the same reasons the Capitals want to keep them or visibly obvious cap dumps.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Because a lot of these things work in timed windows and it's not always a guarantee how they shake out. Like... if everything else stayed the same but Kuznetsov didn't suck they'd probably still be a playoff team this year. The Oshie contract always had some bad years on the end of it but some of us thought he'd be closer to dead than still scoring by now.

I don't think the Capitals are devoid of assets, but we're not just considering what they can sell for the maximum return because they're still trying to compete and win games. If people want to trade prospects or picks for Fever does that actually move the needle, or is this window better suited with the NHL player? Could they probably get something for Dowd right now? Yeah, he was one of the best checking centers in the entire NHL last year, but it's smarter to keep him for hard minutes.

It's not that the players are all completely undesirable, it's that they're desired for the same reasons the Capitals want to keep them or visibly obvious cap dumps.

Isn’t that the problem though? They aren’t winning games with this roster. If the pain is coming either way…it just doesn’t feel like this mgmt group has a direction or a plan.

 

[HTFN]

Isn’t that the problem though? They aren’t winning games with this roster.

Last year has a huge number of staggered variables, multiple underperforming players and a coach they didn't keep. Personally I think they could move a lot in either direction depending on how those entirely personal situations resolve themselves without even making a serious roster change.

If Backstrom isn't straight up lying to himself (or if he is and comes to terms with it), if Kuznetsov can be even, like, 50% of himself this year instead of 10%, if they can manage to not lose a crazy number of man games this year...

And that's not even considering what happens if coaching can gameplan for their roster and improve some weaknesses. They played too slow under Laviolette and I think Carbery's understanding of pace is the right one for the new NHL and this team.

My hopes aren't wildly high but frankly they could be anything from a playoff team to slightly the same but older, and it depends on some very workable scenarios.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Last year has a huge number of staggered variables, multiple underperforming players and a coach they didn't keep. Personally I think they could move a lot in either direction depending on how those entirely personal situations resolve themselves without even making a serious roster change.

If Backstrom isn't straight up lying to himself (or if he is and comes to terms with it), if Kuznetsov can be even, like, 50% of himself this year instead of 10%, if they can manage to not lose a crazy number of man games this year...

And that's not even considering what happens if coaching can gameplan for their roster and improve some weaknesses. They played too slow under Laviolette and I think Carbery's understanding of pace is the right one for the new NHL and this team.

My hopes aren't wildly high but frankly they could be anything from a playoff team to slightly the same but older, and it depends on some very workable scenarios.

I feel like that is just a hope and a prayer. The players who were often injured are now a year older and they are still counting on a 38 year old to lead their offense. It isn’t a plan. This is some serious gaslighting by mgmt if they go with the same roster and claim that they are still trying to compete. I digress but I don’t see it. Let’s either retool or rebuild. If no changes are made they aren’t doing either and instead are just perfectly below average.

 

[HTFN]

I feel like that is just a hope and a prayer. The players who were often injured are now a year older and they are still counting on a 38 year old to lead their offense. It isn’t a plan. This is some serious gaslighting by mgmt if they go with the same roster and claim that they are still trying to compete. I digress but I don’t see it. Let’s either retool or rebuild. If no changes are made they aren’t doing either and instead are just perfectly below average.

You can't retool without playing it cool. Cap dump trades are a tough, tough market right now so if you're not selling out the entire cupboard (and you shouldn't) to aggressively make that space you're going to see it move slow. They could probably pay out the nose and move some contracts and be no closer to the next few years going well, and there are dogshit UFAs on the market to supplement that, so what's the move?

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

You can't retool without playing it cool. Cap dump trades are a tough, tough market right now so if you're not selling out the entire cupboard (and you shouldn't) to aggressively make that space you're going to see it move slow. They could probably pay out the nose and move some contracts and be no closer to the next few years going well, and there are dogshit UFAs on the market to supplement that, so what's the move?

I think honestly at this point I’d rather watch different guys lose and at least have an honest plan forward. Right now it just seems there is no plan.

And watching a team put all of their hopes and dreams on the play of a 38 year old seems…unfair and sad to watch.

 

[Kalopsia]

I think honestly at this point I’d rather watch different guys lose and at least have an honest plan forward. Right now it just seems there is no plan.

And watching a team put all of their hopes and dreams on the play of a 38 year old seems…unfair and sad to watch.

Wait out the bad contracts rather than pay exorbitant prices to get rid of them, see what you’ve got with your most mature prospects, and aim to do the real heavy lifting of renovating the roster when the cap goes up next year is a plan. Might not be very exciting, but based on how this year’s market has shaped up so far it’s probably the best they can do.

 

[g00n]

I think honestly at this point I’d rather watch different guys lose and at least have an honest plan forward. Right now it just seems there is no plan.

And watching a team put all of their hopes and dreams on the play of a 38 year old seems…unfair and sad to watch.

There's something you could do about it.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Brown sees the writing on the wall here. Smart move by him.

 

[HTFN]

I think honestly at this point I’d rather watch different guys lose and at least have an honest plan forward. Right now it just seems there is no plan.

And watching a team put all of their hopes and dreams on the play of a 38 year old seems…unfair and sad to watch.

Here are your reasonable avenues to seeing different guys lose:

They bring in young players, bench all the troubled high value passengers, and basically conduct that overhaul internally

Or they pay with picks and prospects to ditch their troubled high value passengers, sign replacements from a weak UFA class because they traded their best replacements to ditch their contracts, which almost certainly makes them much worse and leaves the cabinet completely bare.

Or they slow roll it, don't trade from an immediate defecit and either let problem contracts expire or otherwise work themselves out (Backstrom), then make educated moves that don't deal from an outright position of weakness.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Here are your reasonable avenues to seeing different guys lose:

They bring in young players, bench all the troubled high value passengers, and basically conduct that overhaul internally

Or they pay with picks and prospects to ditch their troubled high value passengers, sign replacements from a weak UFA class because they traded their best replacements to ditch their contracts, which almost certainly makes them much worse and leaves the cabinet completely bare.

Or they slow roll it, don't trade from an immediate defecit and either let problem contracts expire or otherwise work themselves out (Backstrom), then make educated moves that don't deal from an outright position of weakness.

You’re being rational lol. I’m just so damn frustrated watching the same thing every year.

 

[hockeykicker]

Brown sees the writing on the wall here. Smart move by him.

Considering how they aren't supposed to be talking to him, I wonder how that works

 

[HTFN]

You’re being rational lol. I’m just so damn frustrated watching the same thing every year.

You're a Caps fan, it hasn't been that many years since the good stuff, relatively speaking. The highlights still look real good on youtube.

Don't be a Canadian fan and force the issue before the window is set. That's how teams become Montreal.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Considering how they aren't supposed to be talking to him, I wonder how that works

Very good question. Probably back channels through players.

 

[HTFN]

Considering how they aren't supposed to be talking to him, I wonder how that works

It's Friedman so I'd imagine it's something like "McDavid link plus Toronto needs playoff guys" for hits and that's about it

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

More Debrincat smoke:

GARRIOCH: Alex DeBrincat? Free agency? Lots of moving parts for Ottawa Senators

The latest heading into the NHL free-agency period, which starts Saturday at noon.

ottawasun.com

 

[Capitals40]

Here are your reasonable avenues to seeing different guys lose:

They bring in young players, bench all the troubled high value passengers, and basically conduct that overhaul internally

Or they pay with picks and prospects to ditch their troubled high value passengers, sign replacements from a weak UFA class because they traded their best replacements to ditch their contracts, which almost certainly makes them much worse and leaves the cabinet completely bare.

Or they slow roll it, don't trade from an immediate defecit and either let problem contracts expire or otherwise work themselves out (Backstrom), then make educated moves that don't deal from an outright position of weakness.

I think and I hope it is a slow roll. We knew these tough times were coming.

 

[ClevelandCapsfan]

Brown sees the writing on the wall here. Smart move by him.

Yep, no pressure playing in Toronto, especially if Nylander departs.

I think and I hope it is a slow roll. We knew these tough times were coming.

Love the way you phrased the three options.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Alright hear me out…

*whispers* Daniel Sprong should be their dumpster dive
*duck for cover as things are thrown at me