Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

[SecretaryofDefense5]

It’s a little depressing to see so many articles that say the vultures are circling the corpse already.

 

[Brian23]

I also think the vulture articles are kinda missing it. I think Oshie, at this point, is going to be right up there with Ovi and Backstrom as being synonymous with Capital hockey. Unless he asks out, I don't see anyway he's traded.

If they are out of it at the end of January though (as the trade deadline is super late this year), I still 100% think trading Oshie (and basically anyone but Ovi) is 100% warranted. At that point, move Oshie, Carlson, whoever to really clean out the cap and just force feed guys like Iorio and Miro minutes.

 

[Raikkonen]

Why worry?

If theyre bad then letting go some of the players just makes them better positioned for the draft.

 

[HTFN]

Why worry?

If theyre bad then letting go some of the players just makes them better positioned for the draft.

Yeah, and it's a speculative article anyway. We're one game in, anything prognosticating is just saying that assuming they're bad, these guys have some value.

That's good.

 

[YippieKaey]

I love Oshie but getting a first rounder for him would be great, with or without retention. Leonard will hopefully take his place soon.

I also think the vulture articles are kinda missing it. I think Oshie, at this point, is going to be right up there with Ovi and Backstrom as being synonymous with Capital hockey. Unless he asks out, I don't see anyway he's traded.

If they are out of it at the end of January though (as the trade deadline is super late this year), I still 100% think trading Oshie (and basically anyone but Ovi) is 100% warranted. At that point, move Oshie, Carlson, whoever to really clean out the cap and just force feed guys like Iorio and Miro minutes.

Carlson is needed for 895 though.

 

[DWGie26]

I am a bit surprised we didn’t trade Oshie to Seattle. They could use a veteran leader. Has hometown ties to Seattle. They have a lot of young assets we could use. It might not have happened because he wants to be here. Just had another kid. Bought a new house. Loves this area and the team. I wouldn’t be opposed to it but i don’t think it will happen.

 

[Calicaps]

It’s a little depressing to see so many articles that say the vultures are circling the corpse already.

I could make one of these articles out of your hf posts. These are your people.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

I could make one of these articles out of your hf posts. These are your people.

To each their own I suppose. Everyone has a different perspective. The world would be boring if everyone thought the same way.

 

[g00n]

To each their own I suppose. Everyone has a different perspective. The world would be boring if everyone thought the same way.

As if just avoiding boredom is the most important thing.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Said it before but I think this and next year will be their low water mark. They’ve done well to improve the prospect pipeline and their cap structure looks terrific in two seasons.

As for right now it’s hard to materially improve the team when you have $29M in cap tied up with Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Oshie, and Mantha. It’s really up to them to play better. No more complaints about not liking the coach or the playing style because they got what they wanted with Lavi leaving and no more excuses about injuries because they had six full months off between games. The guys who make the most money have to produce and if they don’t it’s not on Carberry or MacLellan or the depth pieces. They will live or die by the strength (or lack thereof) of their core players.

BMac should do nothing to jeopardize the future and should eagerly sell what he can if they’re not in contention when the calendar flips to 2024. The current core players have done nothing in recent memory to deserve management sacrificing valuable assets to improve the team now and there really aren’t a lot of options anyway if forwards #2-5 in terms of highest cap hit this season perform like replacement level players. No teeth gnashing is necessary.

That’s not to say they can’t be good because I think they can but it will all ride on the same names that have let them down in recent history. Simple as that.

 

[itsjustsurvival]

Said it before but I think this and next year will be their low water mark. They’ve done well to improve the prospect pipeline and their cap structure looks terrific in two seasons.

As for right now it’s hard to materially improve the team when you have $29M in cap tied up with Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Oshie, and Mantha. It’s really up to them to play better. No more complaints about not liking the coach or the playing style because they got what they wanted with Lavi leaving and no more excuses about injuries because they had six full months off between games. The guys who make the most money have to produce and if they don’t it’s not on Carberry or MacLellan or the depth pieces. They will live or die by the strength (or lack thereof) of their core players.

BMac should do nothing to jeopardize the future and should eagerly sell what he can if they’re not in contention when the calendar flips to 2024. The current core players have done nothing in recent memory to deserve management sacrificing valuable assets to improve the team now and there really aren’t a lot of options if forwards #2-5 in terms of highest cap hit this season perform like replacement level players. No teeth gnashing is necessary.

That’s not to say they can’t be good because I think they can but it will all ride on the same names that have let them down in recent history. Simple as that.

I'm with you on all of this. Assuming this year and next are their low water mark, even moving on from just 2 of these 4 players this season could really help in the short term. Not just in regard to cap flexibility but allowing other players to play and develop in the top 9 / 1st PP unit.

But in the worst case of the Capitals not moving any of them, my only hope is that Carberry/MacLellan let the best performing players play the most important roles. Whatever vision Carberry for playing with pace, lay the groundwork now. Even if that means Mantha is healthy scratched most of the year or Oshie ends up on the 4th line without first power play time. Same thing for the defense. Please just play the best 3 LD you have regardless of waiver status or experience. Win or lose, play your best players. To management's credit, the way they handled camp and preseason is encouraging in this regard.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

And if their “best players” aren’t the ones you’re hoping for (young guys), and they keep trotting out vets because they believe in their chances more?

 

[g00n]

 

[itsjustsurvival]

And if their “best players” aren’t the ones you’re hoping for (young guys), and they keep trotting out vets because they believe in their chances more?

I hear you. And sure, I'd like to see some younger players get a shot, but I also have no issue if veterans play if they are productive either offensively or defensively. But you can't logically come to the conclusion they increase your chances of winning if you never properly evaluate the alternatives. What did playing Matt Irwin 61 games for 13 minutes a night really get you? I'd like to think the current coaching staff has a much different perspective than Laviolette and can properly balance competitiveness with development. I hope they are willing to explore things like:

How many more points in the standings does playing Oshie an average of 15 min a night vs 10 min lose you this season? What effects do you see from hypothetically letting Wilson/Strome/CMM play on the first unit power play in his place? Does limiting Oshie's ice time get you more overall games played due to less injury?

What impact do you see from playing players who can skate well with Backstrom/Ovechkin? Does it make sense to let CMM and Protas start taking draws regularly if you see them as centers long term? (especially because the Capitals have been terrible in FO% across all situations for several years)

Let's say they inevitably finish a couple spots lower in the standings, what impact do you see next season from letting younger players get meaningful minutes? Etc.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I hear you. And sure, I'd like to see some younger players get a shot, but I also have no issue if veterans play if they are productive either offensively or defensively. But you can't logically come to the conclusion they increase your chances of winning if you never properly evaluate the alternatives. What did playing Matt Irwin 61 games for 13 minutes a night really get you? I'd like to think the current coaching staff has a much different perspective than Laviolette and can properly balance competitiveness with development. I hope they are willing to explore things like:

How many more points in the standings does playing Oshie an average of 15 min a night vs 10 min lose you this season? What effects do you see from hypothetically letting Wilson/Strome/CMM play on the first unit power play in his place? Does limiting Oshie's ice time get you more overall games played due to less injury?

What impact do you see from playing players who can skate well with Backstrom/Ovechkin? Does it make sense to let CMM and Protas start taking draws regularly if you see them as centers long term? (especially because the Capitals have been terrible in FO% across all situations for several years)

Let's say they inevitably finish a couple spots lower in the standings, what impact do you see next season from letting younger players get meaningful minutes? Etc.

I think it’s pretty easy for a coaching staff to evaluate guys coming up without having to force them into the lineup a ton. You see those guys competing every day against their own teammates. If they aren’t dominating in their peer group….well….”no need to sacrifice the standings points and the player’s confidence”, is the stance I would expect most to take. Their FIRST and PRIMARY goal is to win games. Guys they don’t believe in, don’t get into the lineup.

For the record I think guys like CMM, Protas, Malenstyn, and AA are probably as ready as they ever will be this year, CMM last year wasn’t IMO. Also, maybe they like CMM and Protas at wing better, at least for now, it’s hard to say. It’s a long season, so I expect we’ll get a lot of chances to experiment.

you ask a lot of questions otherwise that cannot be answered, but I have no issue trying any player on any line, pair, or special teams group.

What if the key vets are only moderately productive, but the staff still sees them as a better chance to win each night? I think that was the issue last season, and too soon to know for this one.

And if they do get considerable ice time and don’t show marked improvement heading into next season, well maybe they’re just not that good. That possibility worries me most.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I am a bit surprised we didn’t trade Oshie to Seattle. They could use a veteran leader. Has hometown ties to Seattle. They have a lot of young assets we could use. It might not have happened because he wants to be here. Just had another kid. Bought a new house. Loves this area and the team. I wouldn’t be opposed to it but i don’t think it will happen.

There’s always been a giant assumption there was a real market for this….I always thought that was weird….

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

lmao ill never forget all the users saying how good the mantha trade was for us

 

[IafrateOvie34]

lmao ill never forget all the users saying how good the mantha trade was for us

Can’t blame the users. He has loads of skill, however a lazy bum.

 

[Capitals40]

Can’t blame the users. He has loads of skill, however a lazy bum.

This is exactly how the Red Wings fans described him on their message boards when he was traded

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

This is exactly how the Red Wings fans described him on their message boards when he was traded

And so the exchange of headaches was completed lol..

 

[Hivemind]

Can’t blame the users. He has loads of skill, however a lazy bum.

Can absolutely blame the users who talked down to those who were warning them that Mantha has always been an inconsistent, streaky player who often looks disengaged.

 

[g00n]

Can absolutely blame the users who talked down to those who were warning them that Mantha has always been an inconsistent, streaky player who often looks disengaged.

You poor thing.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

This is exactly how the Red Wings fans described him on their message boards when he was traded

Yep they sure did.

 

[g00n]

I put this in the GDT, maybe it's better here:

Before the first game I think I said Carbery was putting his vets up front to give them a chance to sink or swim, which removes the need for him to swoop in as the new guy and ruffle a lot of feathers unnecessarily.


I still believe that's what he's doing.


His task involves walking into a veteran locker room with franchise legends, and potentially telling them "you're at the end of your career and we need younger legs leading the way".

-If he front loads the stars and they succeed, he looks like a genius for reviving the older players.

-If he front loads the stars and they fail, possibly with very clear analytics and W/L to back it up, he's shown that configuration doesn't work and can move on with their understanding and blessing, which keeps 100% good will between veteran players and rookie coach.


Could he just swoop in and put NB on the 3rd line and say "f*** you, I'm the coach, do what I say"? Sure, but that's not the smart way to go about it.


I don't think he got this far just by saying "I'll look at EA sports ratings and put the highest rated players on my top lines and go from there". Nor has he watched zero film, or gotten zero feedback from others about the issues with the older players.


This is by design, I'm sure.

 

[Brian23]

I put this in the GDT, maybe it's better here:

Before the first game I think I said Carbery was putting his vets up front to give them a chance to sink or swim, which removes the need for him to swoop in as the new guy and ruffle a lot of feathers unnecessarily.


I still believe that's what he's doing.


His task involves walking into a veteran locker room with franchise legends, and potentially telling them "you're at the end of your career and we need younger legs leading the way".

-If he front loads the stars and they succeed, he looks like a genius for reviving the older players.

-If he front loads the stars and they fail, possibly with very clear analytics and W/L to back it up, he's shown that configuration doesn't work and can move on with their understanding and blessing, which keeps 100% good will between veteran players and rookie coach.


Could he just swoop in and put NB on the 3rd line and say "f*** you, I'm the coach, do what I say"? Sure, but that's not the smart way to go about it.


I don't think he got this far just by saying "I'll look at EA sports ratings and put the highest rated players on my top lines and go from there". Nor has he watched zero film, or gotten zero feedback from others about the issues with the older players.


This is by design, I'm sure.

I had a similar thought with their power play. Unless I'm living in bizzaro land, the pre-season PP seemed much less static and there seemed like there was much more movement, similar to Toronto's last year. But as soon as we get into season they're back to their assigned seats and barely moving.