Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[g00n]

There's a much longer list of teams that didn't move up in the draft.

You don't throw away a chance at a superstar, no matter how small.

It doesn't matter how many teams fail you have to get in on the action and let the ping pong balls fall.

Remember the Caps jumped 2 teams to get Ovechkin. They had a 14% chance of winning.

Should they have given up on the lottery because 86% of the time they might lose?

A chance is a chance in this case and it's worth it to preserve that chance.

No chance is no chance and that's it. You miss the playoffs and you miss out on any shot at Bedard.

 

[Brian23]

You don't throw away a chance at a superstar, no matter how small.

It doesn't matter how many teams fail you have to get in on the action and let the ping pong balls fall.

Remember the Caps jumped 2 teams to get Ovechkin. They had a 14% chance of winning.

Should they have given up on the lottery because 86% of the time they might lose?

A chance is a chance in this case and it's worth it to preserve that chance.

No chance is no chance and that's it. You miss the playoffs and you miss out on any shot at Bedard.

What's funny, is that "if" they were to lose they'd probably have a higher chance of getting Bedard then the % chance actually making the Playoffs right now.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

John Carlson speaks on his long road to recovery from head injury:

"My expectation to play is based off of putting myself in no harm right now versus in a year, next September, two Septembers from now, five Septembers from now. I’m not coming back if there’s a risk of anything. Whether that is now or in five years, that’s when I’ll be back.”

Damn that sucks.

 

[bacchist]

What's funny, is that "if" they were to lose they'd probably have a higher chance of getting Bedard then the % chance actually making the Playoffs right now.

This was not the case when people started rooting for the team to lose.

 

[g00n]

This was not the case when people started rooting for the team to lose.

What does that have to do with right now?

I was probably the last person (other than you apparently) to give up hope on the playoffs and start advocating selling/tanking. And that only happened after FLA mopped the floor with them and plunged them into the dire straits of needing to take 3 out of ever 4 points the rest of the way, when they were winning maybe 30% of their games.

If they somehow magically make the playoffs this season it will be partly due to luck, in that 3-5 other teams will inexplicably just collapse and the Caps will win out.

It's been so long since the Caps have been in this position late in the season I think people have either forgotten or never experienced it. When was the last time they were expected to make the playoffs but were basically out of it by the TDL?

20 years ago and the Great Fire Sale.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I’m a lot dumber for having read the last page of this thread. Yikes.

Caps would love Bedard. Any other argument is ….. just stop. Please just all stop

 

[YippieKaey]

I’m a lot dumber for having read the last page of this thread. Yikes.

Caps would love Bedard. Any other argument is ….. just stop. Please just all stop

We have a self-punchers chance to get him too!

 

[HTFN]

What does that have to do with right now?

I was probably the last person (other than you apparently) to give up hope on the playoffs and start advocating selling/tanking. And that only happened after FLA mopped the floor with them and plunged them into the dire straits of needing to take 3 out of ever 4 points the rest of the way, when they were winning maybe 30% of their games.

If they somehow magically make the playoffs this season it will be partly due to luck, in that 3-5 other teams will inexplicably just collapse and the Caps will win out.

It's been so long since the Caps have been in this position late in the season I think people have either forgotten or never experienced it. When was the last time they were expected to make the playoffs but were basically out of it by the TDL?

20 years ago and the Great Fire Sale.

Respect for this. You turned very late but watching you wave the flag and speak truth here… as far as I’m concerned we’re buddies again

 

[Corby78]

John Carlson speaks on his long road to recovery from head injury:

"My expectation to play is based off of putting myself in no harm right now versus in a year, next September, two Septembers from now, five Septembers from now. I’m not coming back if there’s a risk of anything. Whether that is now or in five years, that’s when I’ll be back.”

Damn that sucks.

Good for him though, an extra couple years in the NHL isn’t worth long term health

This was not the case when people started rooting for the team to lose.

Just because they saw the writing on the wall before you did, doesn’t mean they were wrong.

 

[bacchist]

Just because they saw the writing on the wall before you did, doesn’t mean they were wrong.

If you're rooting for the Capitals to lose, you're an opposing fan. Period.

 

[um]

If you're rooting for the Capitals to lose, you're an opposing fan. Period.

I don't understand gatekeeper fans like you. Why do you even care what other fans want?

 

[usiel]

If you're rooting for the Capitals to lose, you're an opposing fan. Period.

Hey there all types of fans: hard core fans, long time fans, draftnik fans, non-watching stat fans, Ovechkin only fans, fair weather fans, only when they win fans, only when they lose fans, trade everyone when they are losing fans, unrealistic trade fans. Ok there is probably more.

This is HFBoards. We are family to all. (admittedly a bit draftnikky)

 

[Acallabeth]

What are the best examples of teams trying to tank for a high draft pick while still keeping the core players whom they want to compete with? Sounds like a poor message to send to the locker room, building a loser culture for a miniscule chance of a lottery victory.

 

[usiel]

What are the best examples of teams trying to tank for a high draft pick while still keeping the core players whom they want to compete with? Sounds like a poor message to send to the locker room, building a loser culture for a miniscule chance of a lottery victory.

Imho not really much tank ability with 12 or so games remaining.

 

[Corby78]

If you're rooting for the Capitals to lose, you're an opposing fan. Period.

I’m sorry you can’t handle reality very well, but the reason we won a cup was because we tanked and then drafted well. The rock the red last 15 years is thanks to that. Without the Ovie/Backy/Green etc.. inject we would have never built this franchise as is. I spent 20 years prior to that watching my favorite team sneak into playoffs and praying for a miracle run. I lived through a lot of bad years, I can do it again if it means again being on top.

 

[bacchist]

I’m sorry you can’t handle reality very well, but the reason we won a cup was because we tanked and then drafted well. The rock the red last 15 years is thanks to that. Without the Ovie/Backy/Green etc.. inject we would have never built this franchise as is. I spent 20 years prior to that watching my favorite team sneak into playoffs and praying for a miracle run. I lived through a lot of bad years, I can do it again if it means again being on top.

What if it doesn't mean being on top again? What if it it just means they lose?

 

[Corby78]

What if it doesn't mean being on top again? What if it it just means they lose?

They were losing anyway. I’m not for blowing things up because I think it’s fun. But this team as constructed has been declining and getting worse. We need a rebuild, reset, restructure or whatever you want to call it. The fastest way to do that is high draft picks, that can be used or traded, and those players panning out. It’s not a guaranteed deal, but we weren’t going to FA our way back.

 

[bacchist]

They were losing anyway. I’m not for blowing things up because I think it’s fun. But this team as constructed has been declining and getting worse. We need a rebuild, reset, restructure or whatever you want to call it. The fastest way to do that is high draft picks, that can be used or traded, and those players panning out. It’s not a guaranteed deal, but we weren’t going to FA our way back.

If we're going to blow it up, let's blow it up. Just losing games and getting mid draft picks isn't enough.

Starting with a team expected to compete, sucking a bit, tanking, getting a draft pick and then immediately going on a cup run is not a thing that happens in real life. It's the script to a bad movie.

 

[g00n]

What if it doesn't mean being on top again? What if it it just means they lose?

Wait, you want a guarantee they'll win the lottery, AND a guarantee they'll win the Cup?

Nobody gets that.

As a fan I'll get more enjoyment out of rooting for a lottery pick to go our way than a few meaningless wins. Had plenty of those over the decades.

And I'll get even more enjoyment if they somehow win the lottery, win or lose, because it will mean all kinds of exciting new options for the team.

Tank talk at this point is no different than any other assessment of the team's status. When we look at them and say "they need X player to do better" or "this system isn't working" we're analyzing their competence wrt the rest of the league and making a judgment.

The conclusions from such analysis can include "they're not going to win every game the rest of the way so better to lose and have a shot at the lottery than come away with nothing at all and a worse draft position".

 

[trick9]

Moneypuck has us at 1.8 % to make the Playoffs. 0.0% chance of reaching the SCF.

 

[YippieKaey]

If you're rooting for the Capitals to lose, you're an opposing fan. Period.

Or, we realize that the most probable and effective way for the organization to start winning is to lose as much as possible this season since there is nothing to be gained from winning if you don't make the playoffs. And we realize that continued mediocrity is the best possible outcome of not attempting a retool/rebuild.

So i would ask you kindly to not make yourself the arbiter of others fandom, cause that creates an environment that more than anything is likely to turn on you and turn you into the undesireable fan you're painting us as.

Moneypuck has us at 1.8 % to make the Playoffs. 0.0% chance of reaching the SCF.

So 1,8% for playoffs, 0,0% for the SCF and 3% for Bedard. The math has spoken.

 

[Holtbyisms]

I'm 37, have been watching and playing hockey since I can remember. I consider myself a diehard capitals fan and I wholeheartedly hope we drop in the standings to finish up the year. AKA tank. That doesn't make me "not a fan" and if you believe that we've got nothing left to talk about. If you want to take a look at what finishing .500 every year does take a look no further than our NFL counterparts. The Skins almost always finish with the 12-16th pick every season(the recent #2 pick being the exception but kinda looking like they blew it so far) and never have the ability to draft impactful players. They always get somebody decent who becomes a starter but never that change the franchise guy. They just tread mud in mediocrity.

I remember the firesale, I remember all the prospects and picks we acquired from it and how excited we all were having one of the deepest prospect system in the NHL after it was over. Most of the prospects never amounted to anything and the draft picks weren't outstanding either except greenie. What turned the franchise around was finishing at the bottom and drafting a guy named Ovechkin. It wasn't building from assets acquired as part of the tank. So, if history has taught me anything as a lifelong capitals fan...to be good you gotta be real bad. Finishing with the 14th pick over the next 3 seasons while we chase Wayne Gretzky ain't going to cut it if we want to have a future that isn't mediocrity.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

I'm 37, have been watching and playing hockey since I can remember. I consider myself a diehard capitals fan and I wholeheartedly hope we drop in the standings to finish up the year. AKA tank. That doesn't make me "not a fan" and if you believe that we've got nothing left to talk about. If you want to take a look at what finishing .500 every year does take a look no further than our NFL counterparts. The Skins almost always finish with the 12-16th pick every season(the recent #2 pick being the exception but kinda looking like they blew it so far) and never have the ability to draft impactful players. They always get somebody decent who becomes a starter but never that change the franchise guy. They just tread mud in mediocrity.

I remember the firesale, I remember all the prospects and picks we acquired from it and how excited we all were having one of the deepest prospect system in the NHL after it was over. Most of the prospects never amounted to anything and the draft picks weren't outstanding either except greenie. What turned the franchise around was finishing at the bottom and drafting a guy named Ovechkin. It wasn't building from assets acquired as part of the tank. So, if history has taught me anything as a lifelong capitals fan...to be good you gotta be real bad. Finishing with the 14th pick over the next 3 seasons while we chase Wayne Gretzky ain't going to cut it if we want to have a future that isn't mediocrity.

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Preach. Been a fan since 1995 and there is NOTHING wrong with wanting the team to lose when the playoffs are a pipe dream. The math doesn’t work. This is called accepting reality.

Play the youngins more minutes than guys who are destined to be gone this off season (e.g. Smith and Sheary). Try to sign a top college UFA and give them a cup of coffee at the end of the season. Re-tool in the off season. Fin.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

If you're rooting for the Capitals to lose, you're an opposing fan. Period.

I wasn’t aware anyone made you the arbiter of who a fan is.

 

[twabby]

I think the other benefit of tanking now is that even if they don't win the lottery the #10 overall pick should be more valuable in a trade than the #13 overall pick, for instance.

I think there's a good chance the pick could be traded if they don't win the lottery, and if so squeezing as much value out of their first round pick in a trade is important. Maybe a team is confident if they trade for the #10 pick they can draft the guy they want, but at #13 their guy might be off the board. That might make them balk at a potential trade. Or maybe Washington won't have to add a second round pick to the trade if they are drafting at #10 vs. #13, for example. That could allow that later round pick to be used elsewhere in another trade, for instance.

There are a lot of benefits to dropping in the standings now. I don't think the players should go out there and dog it and I don't blame Laviolette for trying to win because he's not likely a long-term fixture on the team. But MacLellan should certainly be trying to tank now. He needs a longer term view than just this season. And I think his strategy at the deadline showed that he is looking forward to the future rather than focusing on this season. Hopefully he continues this by making the appropriate callups and send-downs to help the tank.