Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[bacchist]

I wasn’t aware anyone made you the arbiter of who a fan is.

I don't want to see the Capitals turn into the Sabres, which is where I see this all headed.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I don't want to see the Capitals turn into the Sabres, which is where I see this all headed.

It didn’t happen last time, why would it happen this time?

If you have no faith in GMBM, then I guess so. But I do. We had a wonderful run. Amazing. It’s seemingly over. So, let’s see what’s next?

 

[kicksavedave]

Speaking of Carlson, there was some debate about him having a skull fracture, specifically around why a simple ear laceration would take three months to heal.

Yeah, he cracked his skull and severed a the temporal artery. A lot worse than just an ear thingy.

Report: John Carlson suffered a fractured skull and severed temporal artery after taking slap shot to the head

The Washington Capitals have been without star defenseman John Carlson since December 23 when the veteran blueliner took a direct slap shot…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It didn’t happen last time, why would it happen this time?

If you have no faith in GMBM, then I guess so. But I do. We had a wonderful run. Amazing. It’s seemingly over. So, let’s see what’s next?

Because you only luck into Ovechkin once In life?

@bacchist is absolutely right that this could be the start of a 10 year spiral or worse…..

I said it early in the season, if we fall apart, this is the year to miss, get a higher prospect in a deep draft, then try to get back to being a playoff team with a killer offseason of moves.

Losing is still distasteful to me as a fan….rooting for losing more so, but so is booing your own team IMO….live and let live….

 

[HTFN]

Because you only luck into Ovechkin once In life?

@bacchist is absolutely right that this could be the start of a 10 year spiral or worse…..

I said it early in the season, if we fall apart, this is the year to miss, get a higher prospect in a deep draft, then try to get back to being a playoff team with a killer offseason of moves.

Losing is still distasteful to me as a fan….rooting for losing more so, but so is booing your own team IMO….live and let live….

You go ahead and tell that to the Penguins.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You go ahead and tell that to the Penguins.

Oh we are suddenly are the darlings of the press (NBC/ESPN) and the NHL where we get “lucky” so soon? Guess we’ll see.

 

[HTFN]

Oh we are suddenly are the darlings of the press (NBC/ESPN) and the NHL where we get “lucky” so soon? Guess we’ll see.

Okay bear with me for a second.

Let's have our conspiracy be that the quest for ratings and the NHL record will be tons more lucrative if the team is also worth giving those sweet prime time slots to, so rather than hedge their bets it's best for everyone if the Capitals just thrive a little while longer

Consp'rd for Bedard

 

[Calicaps]

Because you only luck into Ovechkin once In life?

@bacchist is absolutely right that this could be the start of a 10 year spiral or worse…..

I said it early in the season, if we fall apart, this is the year to miss, get a higher prospect in a deep draft, then try to get back to being a playoff team with a killer offseason of moves.

Losing is still distasteful to me as a fan….rooting for losing more so, but so is booing your own team IMO….live and let live….

Also, I find all the complaining about poor play really strange coming from the crowd that most wants them to tank.

 

[Holtbyisms]

 

[Langway]

Also, I find all the complaining about poor play really strange coming from the crowd that most wants them to tank.

It would be easier if there were signs of a shrewd long game being played. They're not trying to lose. They're just inept.

Lavi is a lame duck presumably so we'll see where they go but I don't expect MacLellan to form an ideal relationship with the new one that suddenly manages to better balance multiple priorities/objectives well. You never know. It could happen. They're a poorly managed retirement community littered with convenient scrapheap adds with little coming through the system of near-term consequence or any sort of detailed, foward-thinking style. Not great! You also have to wonder at this point how easily they'd even be able to attract top coaches.

It would also maybe be one thing if they had a more promising tank drafting range. They should get a decent player in the likely 10-13 range but probably short of a foundational type. So in the bigger picture how they manage to be even average in the near-term seems like a tough one to resolve. It's a puzzle with a lot more pitfalls than easy solutions in the near-term.

 

[Calicaps]

It would be easier if there were signs of a shrewd long game being played. They're not trying to lose. They're just inept.

Lavi is a lame duck presumably so we'll see where they go but I don't expect MacLellan to form an ideal relationship with the new one that suddenly manages to better balance multiple priorities/objectives well. You never know. It could happen. They're a poorly managed retirement community littered with convenient scrapheap adds with little coming through the system of near-term consequence or any sort of detailed, foward-thinking style. Not great! You also have to wonder at this point how easily they'd even be able to attract top coaches.

It would also maybe be one thing if they had a more promising tank drafting range. They should get a decent player in the likely 10-13 range but probably short of a foundational type. So in the bigger picture how they manage to be even average in the near-term seems like a tough one to resolve. It's a puzzle with a lot more pitfalls than easy solutions in the near-term.

As I've said, just because the plan. isn't apparent to a bunch of schmoes on the internet doesn't mean there isn't one. And in fact if there were many obvious "signs" then it wouldn't be all that shrewd. You believe they're hapless, so that's what you see. I'm reserving judgment until Mac and his team have actually had a chance to execute the retool he has said he's working on. I prefer to evaluate it after--rather than before--it's done.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Because you only luck into Ovechkin once In life?

@bacchist is absolutely right that this could be the start of a 10 year spiral or worse…..

I said it early in the season, if we fall apart, this is the year to miss, get a higher prospect in a deep draft, then try to get back to being a playoff team with a killer offseason of moves.

Losing is still distasteful to me as a fan….rooting for losing more so, but so is booing your own team IMO….live and let live….

Well sure. Of course it could be a spiral. That goes without saying. But I’m not going to assume that. They will be down a year or 2, IMO.

It just seems silly to assume it’ll be bad

 

[bacchist]

Thinking we will win if we lose enough is every bit as silly.

 

[Langway]

As I've said, just because the plan. isn't apparent to a bunch of schmoes on the internet doesn't mean there isn't one. And in fact if there were many obvious "signs" then it wouldn't be all that shrewd. You believe they're hapless, so that's what you see. I'm reserving judgment until Mac and his team have actually had a chance to execute the retool he has said he's working on. I prefer to evaluate it after--rather than before--it's done.

Obviously we'll see. My point has been that the idea of a retool is a lot more appealing than the reality turns out to be due to the numerous constraints they'll be operating under. To need so much so quickly is not a strong position to be in obviously. I'd wager they will be forced to become more patient because if they're honest there's no real way around to fast-track this. They can try some swaps. They can try a new coach. But in terms of substantially elevating their ceiling again, yeah, I don't see that happening in one off-season largely via trade. In general it's foolish to expect anything other than the draft to be what gets an organization back on track. To do so by other means is an incredibly tough way of building in a hurry, particularly when dealing with core assets that have to be considered diminished assets. It would be one thing if they maybe had a ton of cap space and it was a strong UFA class. Neither is the case.

There's just a lot more downside potential than upside in the near-term. The degree of difficulty is immense. More likely I would guess MacLellan ultimately pivots to broadening out the time frame, buying himself more time to extract full value for some assets and letting the marketplace develop for more opportunities to present themselves. Pinning their near-term hopes on what happens to be available within a three to four-month off-season window is such a narrow needle to thread. They need a Hail Mary type off-season basically. A healthy Carlson & Jensen will help but, I mean, that still leaves Sandin & Fehervary in the top four and I don't know how viable that is. Their goaltending also increasingly looks suspect. So, yeah, there's just a lot more questions than answers at this stage. I would trust the trend lines until something pretty seismic happens.

 

[YippieKaey]

Also, I find all the complaining about poor play really strange coming from the crowd that most wants them to tank.

I mean not really strange. We all wabt the Caps to win. We all would prefer that happening this season. We all see that isn't happening and it's frustrating so we complain. But, we also realize the best thing is to lose hard. Then they win a game and we hope for playoffs, then they suck again. Being a fan is the epitome of irrationality so these behaviours are to be expected i feel.

Personally, i want an entertaining product on the ice, such as Ovi goals, big hits or promising play from youngsters. But apart from Ovi goals and Oshie being Oshie there's not much there.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Well sure. Of course it could be a spiral. That goes without saying. But I’m not going to assume that. They will be down a year or 2, IMO.

It just seems silly to assume it’ll be bad

How many teams tear it down, ungracefully age out most of their core players and rebound in 2-3 years? I think it’s way sillier to assume it will be a quick rebuild into a contender.

If we‘re lucky, GMBM and a new staff and some new players can get back to being a playoff qualifier. If not and injuries and down play continue, we‘re sunk for the foreseeable future.

 

[YippieKaey]

Obviously we'll see. My point has been that the idea of a retool is a lot more appealing than the reality turns out to be due to the numerous constraints they'll be operating under. To need so much so quickly is not a strong position to be in obviously. I'd wager they will be forced to become more patient because if they're honest there's no real way around to fast-track this. They can try some swaps. They can try a new coach. But in terms of substantially elevating their ceiling again, yeah, I don't see that happening in one off-season largely via trade. In general it's foolish to expect anything other than the draft to be what gets an organization back on track. To do so by other means is an incredibly tough way of building in a hurry, particularly when dealing with core assets that have to be considered diminished assets. It would be one thing if they maybe had a ton of cap space and it was a strong UFA class. Neither is the case.

There's just a lot more downside potential than upside in the near-term. The degree of difficulty is immense. More likely I would guess MacLellan ultimately pivots to broadening out the time frame, buying himself more time to extract full value for some assets and letting the marketplace develop for more opportunities to present themselves. Pinning their near-term hopes on what happens to be available within a three to four-month off-season window is such a narrow needle to thread. They need a Hail Mary type off-season basically. A healthy Carlson & Jensen will help but, I mean, that still leaves Sandin & Fehervary in the top four and I don't know how viable that is. Their goaltending also increasingly looks suspect. So, yeah, there's just a lot more questions than answers at this stage. I would trust the trend lines until something pretty seismic happens.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but if JC74 is back next season i'd be very happy with Fever and Sandin as our second pairing. Feel like they would compliment each other well and both have a bit of nastiness. Then TvR and some massive net front pylon on the third pairing and the D is pretty decent.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Obviously we'll see. My point has been that the idea of a retool is a lot more appealing than the reality turns out to be due to the numerous constraints they'll be operating under. To need so much so quickly is not a strong position to be in obviously. I'd wager they will be forced to become more patient because if they're honest there's no real way around to fast-track this. They can try some swaps. They can try a new coach. But in terms of substantially elevating their ceiling again, yeah, I don't see that happening in one off-season largely via trade. In general it's foolish to expect anything other than the draft to be what gets an organization back on track. To do so by other means is an incredibly tough way of building in a hurry, particularly when dealing with core assets that have to be considered diminished assets. It would be one thing if they maybe had a ton of cap space and it was a strong UFA class. Neither is the case.

There's just a lot more downside potential than upside in the near-term. The degree of difficulty is immense. More likely I would guess MacLellan ultimately pivots to broadening out the time frame, buying himself more time to extract full value for some assets and letting the marketplace develop for more opportunities to present themselves. Pinning their near-term hopes on what happens to be available within a three to four-month off-season window is such a narrow needle to thread. They need a Hail Mary type off-season basically. A healthy Carlson & Jensen will help but, I mean, that still leaves Sandin & Fehervary in the top four and I don't know how viable that is. Their goaltending also increasingly looks suspect. So, yeah, there's just a lot more questions than answers at this stage. I would trust the trend lines until something pretty seismic happens.

So what you’re saying is…..this will be hard, if not impossible.

 

[g00n]

It's easy to say a team seems like they lack fundamental this or commitment to that and will fail because it's tough to blah blah etc etc because that kind of thing reads like a horoscope and only one team wins the Cup each year. Half the league doesn't make the playoffs and 1/4 of the league will bow out in the first round.

You don't need an entire draft or UFA pool to be stellar to find the guys you need somewhere in some organization, maybe your own.

The doom and gloom around here never changes it just gets more wordy, or comes with new charts.

 

[Langway]

 

[g00n]

Ah, much easier to read.

Thanks, m8!

 

[twabby]

Why don’t emojis work for me any more? Is it a me thing or an HF thing?

Test:

 

[g00n]

Why don’t emojis work for me any more? Is it a me thing or an HF thing?

Test:

poop poop poop apple pizza terlet finger dalek or something siren

looks fine to me

 

[Rayquaza64]

I do believe it is possible that there is a world where maybe not next year but with favorable prospect development as well as smart hockey trades within the next 2-3 years or so we could in theory be back towards true contender status with a revamped core. My thoughts on the likelihood of that word being the world we live in will likely be determined by what the outlook looks like towards the beginning of next season.

 

[Calicaps]

How many teams tear it down, ungracefully age out most of their core players and rebound in 2-3 years? I think it’s way sillier to assume it will be a quick rebuild into a contender.

If we‘re lucky, GMBM and a new staff and some new players can get back to being a playoff qualifier. If not and injuries and down play continue, we‘re sunk for the foreseeable future.

this is an important fact. if you think the goal here is to be top-tier team in a year or two, you're likely to be disappointed. if you think the goal is to get back to wild card-qualifier and good enough to get Ovie to 895 then there's probably reason for hope.