Yup. Also, it’s inexcusable to continually bench a player that makes almost $6m.
I disagree with the money thought. I don't think a coach should be making lineup decisions based upon how much they're paid, that's a GM's job to handle.
$6m is a hard pill to swallow. You put your team at a competitive disadvantage when you waste this much cap space. Points out the the coach and GM are on completely different pages.
I'd wager GMBM didn't support benching a guy playing the way Mantha was playing. He was driving possession and shots, and doing his job with zero power play time. He just was snake bit. And then Lavi's response was to destroy every ounce of confidence he has.
And destroy any potential trade value to get rid of such a guy.
And it’s easy to see the error, even though Vrana also needed to be moved. We’ll end up being the 2nd team that failed to get the most out of Mantha….
Exactly right WAS playing….that slipped off some and the benchings started….
Absolutely not true. He was benched and losing minutes while playing well. You were literally apart of those arguments, I don't see how you can suddenly act like that didn't happen now.
He was playing well when the benchings started. He was in the top three in all even strength categories and either first or second in even strength goals and assists per 60 through the end of 2022. His isolate charts were among the best on the team. He got bumped up to the top six due to injury and had a bad game and then it all fell apart from there. He was afforded no leeway and none of his strong play from the first half of the season seemed to impact the decisions at all.
Mantha has a reputation going back to Detroit for underperforming and looking disinterested. It's a massive red flag for a professional athlete.
Sure, but he was still producing and he was doing it with no PP time and with Eller as his center so it’s not like he was living on potential alone. I think there’s also a difference between underperforming and underperforming relative to expectations. Both BMac and Laviolette have said that Mantha is frustrating because he can be dominant and take over games when he wants to do that’s seemingly the standard he’s being held to: be dominant or don’t play at all. Why can’t the standard just be, a solid middle six forward who pots 25 goals a season and provides great defensive play? It seems like he’s been playing under different rules than other people because of his size and skill set and because of the heightened expectations the contributions he is making aren’t being full appreciated or rewarded.
So we have a guy who was playing well but not quite as well as his coach thought he could play so he got benched and had his confidence destroyed. Why isn’t Kuznetsov being treated the same? Backstrom? Guys who were dominant and had the potential to take over games who are now outright liabilities get a pass but Mantha doesn’t.
Backstrom because 1. he's an franchise icon and ownership favorite and 2. the reasons for his limited play are obvious: he's still recovering from massive bodily trauma and months away from the rink. No one in the organization is going to bust his balls until he's had at least an offseason to train and a training camp. If he still sucks after that, then maybe.
No, no. You don't get to swing this. You are flat out wrong. It is an undisputed fact that he was statistically one of our best forwards, and it wasn't even that anyone was out. He was legitimately good, he was just snake bit while playing with an absolute anchor in Eller.
We know the reality of the conditions leading up to it and the constraints they'll be limited by. It would be one thing with less pressure to make changes or fewer sell low situations. As-is under pressure and with various diminished assets it's a pretty big challenge. A great off-season can happen. I just wouldn't bank on it being easy/convenient/quick. It's also a bit far-fetched to bank on it going amazingly when simpler day-to-day matters seemingly spiral with no solutions. Many issues seem entrenched and cultural where it's hard to expect trading their way out of them. They need to do a better job handling business internally first and foremost. With declining primary contributors and what at least currently is a not apparent secondary route to wins it's hard to figure what may distinguish them going forward. It had been team defense since Trotz but with Orlov gone that seems remote against quality teams. This is a league at 30-year scoring highs. How will they keep pace offensively and defensively? To expect transactional robberies seems like wishful thinking. To expect a new coach to sort out entrenched habits is a stretch. More likely GMs will offer up their own anchors for their diminishing assets. I'd wager they'll largely be the same try-hard inefficient scamps that can't fully get it together and keep plugging away. Only if results wane and secondary routes to wins dry up morale may sag. Strengthening their fortitude and self-belief will be difficult. Impact talent can quickly right a lot of wrongs. It's also scarce for good reason.
I think Vrana would've been the same kind of problem, whatever it was, here as he was in Detroit.
Yeah, the favoritism can't be doing anyone any good. Kuzy gets to suck all over the ice, Backstrom gets to find his game no matter how bad he is, etc.
