Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[RedRocking]

Adding one of the only forwards in the league who are worse than Ovechkin and Kuznetsov defensively would certainly be a choice!

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Even if Kane wasn't as bad as he is defensively I don't think he is a good fit. He's a pure rental and if they are going to give up a premium asset I don't think it makes much sense to go after a pure rental. They'll need a new top 6 forward or two next year as well so I'd instead look at adding via trade in the offseason if nothing can come together before the TDL.

Not to continue banging the Timo Meier drum, but I'd rather give up 2 or 3 good assets for an extended Meier at the TDL than give up 1 good asset for an older and ineffective Patrick Kane.

I would like Meier too - but it’s going to take a heck of a pkg and what does our org have that would actually entice them (vs say the Devs or Canes).

CMM, Jimi, Protas, Iorio, a mid to late 1st? How many of those would have to be in consideration? It’s seems like a tall order, and I’m just not realistically seeing it.

 

[twabby]

I would like Meier too - but it’s going to take a heck of a pkg and what does our org have that would actually entice them (vs say the Devs or Canes).

CMM, Jimi, Protas, Iorio, a mid to late 1st? How many of those would have to be in consideration? It’s seems like a tall order, and I’m just not realistically seeing it.

I don't necessarily see them as frontrunners for Meier either but I think they really need to key in on top 6 forwards who are non-rentals that can fill a top 6 role not only this season but for several seasons after this one. They don't have any young forwards ready to step into a top 6 role next year, and they aren't exactly top-tier contenders who can justify going all-in for just this season either.

Dylan Larkin is another player that would make sense if he came with an extension, though I still find it hard to believe Detroit would move on from him. But these are the types of players they should be looking at IMO. I'm sure there are a few other players who could be had for the right price that I can't think of.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Adding one of the only forwards in the league who are worse than Ovechkin and Kuznetsov defensively would certainly be a choice!

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Even if Kane wasn't as bad as he is defensively I don't think he is a good fit. He's a pure rental and if they are going to give up a premium asset I don't think it makes much sense to go after a pure rental. They'll need a new top 6 forward or two next year as well so I'd instead look at adding via trade in the offseason if nothing can come together before the TDL.

Not to continue banging the Timo Meier drum, but I'd rather give up 2 or 3 good assets for an extended Meier at the TDL than give up 1 good asset for an older and ineffective Patrick Kane.

Welcome to Team Timo. I’ve been keeping seats warm for people on the bandwagon.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

I would like Meier too - but it’s going to take a heck of a pkg and what does our org have that would actually entice them (vs say the Devs or Canes).

CMM, Jimi, Protas, Iorio, a mid to late 1st? How many of those would have to be in consideration? It’s seems like a tall order, and I’m just not realistically seeing it.

Washington traded Vrana, Panik, a first, and a second for Mantha. Panik was worth one of the draft picks for cap retention. Vrana + pick for Mantha was the other component to the trade.

Meier probably goes for another piece on top of that. Maybe Mantha, CMM, a 1st, a 2nd, and one of their B prospects. It also depends on if the Sharks value Mantha or if they see him as a cap dump. Panik was awful except for a streak of a few games on the 4th line.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

The rumors since the summer have always been Kane ending up in New York on the Rangers because that’s where he wants to go.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Adding one of the only forwards in the league who are worse than Ovechkin and Kuznetsov defensively would certainly be a choice!

View attachment 642556

Even if Kane wasn't as bad as he is defensively I don't think he is a good fit. He's a pure rental and if they are going to give up a premium asset I don't think it makes much sense to go after a pure rental. They'll need a new top 6 forward or two next year as well so I'd instead look at adding via trade in the offseason if nothing can come together before the TDL.

Not to continue banging the Timo Meier drum, but I'd rather give up 2 or 3 good assets for an extended Meier at the TDL than give up 1 good asset for an older and ineffective Patrick Kane.

What if he’s not a pure rental? Do we need him to play D, or get over a tough year in Chicago and play better offensively? I think the latter.

(Not that I don’t like the Meier idea)…

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The rumors since the summer have always been Kane ending up in New York on the Rangers because that’s where he wants to go.

No doubt….dude lives in a high rise….would eat up NYC life.

It’s nice to dream….

 

[RedRocking]

Washington traded Vrana, Panik, a first, and a second for Mantha. Panik was worth one of the draft picks for cap retention. Vrana + pick for Mantha was the other component to the trade.

Meier probably goes for another piece on top of that. Maybe Mantha, CMM, a 1st, a 2nd, and one of their B prospects. It also depends on if the Sharks value Mantha or if they see him as a cap dump. Panik was awful except for a streak of a few games on the 4th line.

Yea, I would do that in heartbeat. But I really don’t see the Sharks valuing Mantha that much. It’s nice in that salaries match, and they get cost certainty of Mantha for one more year. But otherwise, it’s just a lesser, older player cap dump to a team that should be getting younger.

Though, I really have no clue what the Sharks are trying to do (besides getting people to SAP) these days, and neither do they it seems.

Welcome to Team Timo. I’ve been keeping seats warm for people on the bandwagon.

I’ll volunteer as local scout!

 

[895]

Don't want to relitigate old Alex Semin arguments from years past but he scored some of my favorite goals as a Cap. That center ice slapper against Tim Thomas in overtime was legendary

Best part was Thomas just leaving immediately

 

[twabby]

What if he’s not a pure rental? Do we need him to play D, or get over a tough year in Chicago and play better offensively? I think the latter.

(Not that I don’t like the Meier idea)…

I don’t think signing a 34 year old Kane to an extension would be a fruitful endeavor. He’s been trending down for years and I don’t know that Washington can really afford to have another defense optional player in their top 6 unless they are a truly elite offensive talent. And Kane isn’t that any more.

Most of Washington’s problem in the postseason has been they just don’t have the puck in the offensive zone enough and Kane does nothing to solve that problem. He’s also not really a natural fit on the power play (where he has most of his current value) unless he displaces Backstrom, and in that case Washington would probably need to be looking for a center rather than a winger.

 

[Hivemind]

Disclaimer: this guy is not a true “insider” but he’s been the first to break news in recent history so take what he says with as big a grain of salt as you’d prefer.

Hmm, interesting. Have to imagine Mantha would be going the other way and I’m not sure Kane is who they need given his struggles this year but it at least gives me hope that they know the forward group needs more talent.

I mean, it would certainly fit in with GMBM's other moves that seemed to be focused on building the best contender for the 2014 Stanley Cup possible.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Adding one of the only forwards in the league who are worse than Ovechkin and Kuznetsov defensively would certainly be a choice!

View attachment 642556

Even if Kane wasn't as bad as he is defensively I don't think he is a good fit. He's a pure rental and if they are going to give up a premium asset I don't think it makes much sense to go after a pure rental. They'll need a new top 6 forward or two next year as well so I'd instead look at adding via trade in the offseason if nothing can come together before the TDL.

Not to continue banging the Timo Meier drum, but I'd rather give up 2 or 3 good assets for an extended Meier at the TDL than give up 1 good asset for an older and ineffective Patrick Kane.

I like me some Timo Meier — but you can’t say give up all this for an *extended* Meier….

And then assume it would a UFA for sure Kane. Apples to apples.

Edit — I see this was addressed already (signing)

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don’t think signing a 34 year old Kane to an extension would be a fruitful endeavor. He’s been trending down for years and I don’t know that Washington can really afford to have another defense optional player in their top 6 unless they are a truly elite offensive talent. And Kane isn’t that any more.

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Most of Washington’s problem in the postseason has been they just don’t have the puck in the offensive zone enough and Kane does nothing to solve that problem. He’s also not really a natural fit on the power play (where he has most of his current value) unless he displaces Backstrom, and in that case Washington would probably need to be looking for a center rather than a winger.

He just posted a 92 pt season and this season so far is a write off due to the Hawks and his life about to get blown up when his contract ends. Why couldn’t he replace Kuzy on the PP as someone else said? Instant upgrade to a weak facet.

Resign him, move Kuzy and retool the C position in the off-season.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Washington traded Vrana, Panik, a first, and a second for Mantha. Panik was worth one of the draft picks for cap retention. Vrana + pick for Mantha was the other component to the trade.

Meier probably goes for another piece on top of that. Maybe Mantha, CMM, a 1st, a 2nd, and one of their B prospects. It also depends on if the Sharks value Mantha or if they see him as a cap dump. Panik was awful except for a streak of a few games on the 4th line.

That’s a lot for an FA. Even an RFA. I don’t see Mantha as a cap dump though. I don’t think the league does either.

In a dream world, they get Karlsson (retained) and Meier (retained) for Mantha, Eller, and some very strong futures. Would probably cost someone like Protas and maybe AA plus a 1st. Just thinking out loud.

San Jose needs to be relevant. They won’t fully tank.

 

[Calicaps]

Don't want to relitigate old Alex Semin arguments from years past but he scored some of my favorite goals as a Cap. That center ice slapper against Tim Thomas in overtime was legendary

He was so f***ing talented. If only he'd wanted to be as great as he could have.

 

[twabby]

He just posted a 92 pt season and this season so far is a write off due to the Hawks and his life about to get blown up when his contract ends. Why couldn’t he replace Kuzy on the PP as someone else said? Instant upgrade to a weak facet.

Resign him, move Kuzy and retool the C position in the off-season.

I don’t think we can just use points as a metric for judging the overall quality of a player.

His impacts defensively over the past 3 years have been so bad that they more than wipe out whatever good he does offensively.

We have a perfect example of a Capital who scores at a decent enough clip (Kuznetsov) yet most nights can be fairly described as a liability. That’s been Patrick Kane over the past 3 years. And at age 34 I’m not banking on some big turnaround in his game. Spending assets on him would be a huge waste IMO.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don’t think we can just use points as a metric for judging the overall quality of a player.

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His impacts defensively over the past 3 years have been so bad that they more than wipe out whatever good he does offensively.

We have a perfect example of a Capital who scores at a decent enough clip (Kuznetsov) yet most nights can be fairly described as a liability. That’s been Patrick Kane over the past 3 years. And at age 34 I’m not banking on some big turnaround in his game. Spending assets on him would be a huge waste IMO.

Dude production is production….adding a 30G/90 pt player would be massive. We don’t need him to play D, we need a threat/upgrade to the top-6. Guys beside Ovy who can generate goals.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

 

[twabby]

Dude production is production….adding a 30G/90 pt player would be massive. We don’t need him to play D, we need a threat/upgrade to the top-6. Guys beside Ovy who can generate goals.

I mean you can’t just handwave away his defensive shortcomings because he scores. Yes he’d probably help generate goals, but he’d also make it so that they need to score even more goals in order to win.

Right now he’s a massive drag on goal differential and he’s trending down. Losing 5-3 isn’t better than losing 3-2 even if you score one more goal, for instance.

 

[HTFN]

I don’t think we can just use points as a metric for judging the overall quality of a player.

View attachment 642747

His impacts defensively over the past 3 years have been so bad that they more than wipe out whatever good he does offensively.

We have a perfect example of a Capital who scores at a decent enough clip (Kuznetsov) yet most nights can be fairly described as a liability. That’s been Patrick Kane over the past 3 years. And at age 34 I’m not banking on some big turnaround in his game. Spending assets on him would be a huge waste IMO.

Weren’t you posting these about Johansson in the off-season and now obviously we don’t care and it doesn’t really matter anymore because it’s not happening like that here and now? I think it was Johansson, I can’t remember I just accidentally opened an early page in the acquisitions thread like “we’re talking about this again?” before realizing.

Doesn’t have to be as simple as looking at bar graphs either, and I would think there’s something to be said for trusting the Caps D and goalies to swing the daily balance in their favor. There’s also something to be said for playoff Kane as a separate entity because that’s what you’re buying, not a three year compilation

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

He was so f***ing talented. If only he'd wanted to be as great as he could have.

He had one of if not the best releases I’ve ever seen in the NHL. Just unreal wrist, forearm, and grip strength. Hockey clearly wasn’t his passion which is fine since it’s his life but also sad because he could have been, as you said, as good as he wanted to. Certainly a 50 goal guy.

How good could the PP have been back in the day if they had the current scheme… Nick, Johansson, MG52, Semin, and Ovie. Semin in the bumper would have been unfair with Greenie at the point and Ovie in his office.

 

[HTFN]

He had one of if not the best releases I’ve ever seen in the NHL. Just unreal wrist, forearm, and grip strength. Hockey clearly wasn’t his passion which is fine since it’s his life but also sad because he could have been, as you said, as good as he wanted to. Certainly a 50 goal guy.

How good could the PP have been back in the day if they had the current scheme… Nick, Johansson, MG52, Semin, and Ovie. Semin in the bumper would have been unfair with Greenie at the point and Ovie in his office.

the goal I can only define as the "trebuchet goal" against Ottawa is maybe the best shot I've ever seen

the special kind of evil Semin had in store for Ottawa has no explanation but it sure was funny to watch, he always seemed to go ballistic there.


this is just stupid

 

[g00n]

I mean you can’t just handwave away his defensive shortcomings because he scores. Yes he’d probably help generate goals, but he’d also make it so that they need to score even more goals in order to win.

Right now he’s a massive drag on goal differential and he’s trending down. Losing 5-3 isn’t better than losing 3-2 even if you score one more goal, for instance.

Twabby arguing for defense and to hell with offensive output?

Twilight zone

 

[Peeri]

The fact that Kane is still racking up point on this Chicago team is a testament for his amazing offensive skill he has in him. I couldn't care less about his defensive game when nobody on that team could have great stats when playing on that dumpster of a team we call Chicago Blackhawks. Also it's not like our stars are some defensive stalwarts lol.

 

[Jags]

We'd have to give up serious assets just to rent Kane for a couple months, and it'd only be worth it if it gave us a legit shot at a Cup. And it wouldn't. We're not one guy away from a Cup.

Put those same assets into a move (or moves) to acquire pieces that'll be around a while, clear one or two spots for prospects to make the jump next year. Smart, calculated turnover and asset management.