Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[SecretaryofDefense5]

How about an actual roster upgrade Instead? Caps need a reliable top-6 threat.

We don’t agree on much but we agree on this.

I think you're probably correct about what their thought process is. While I think dealing Oshie and/or Kuznetsov would have to wait until the offseason I think they can clear a logjam and still acquire an impact talent if they get aggressive about shopping Eller and Mantha now. Neither guy is in their long-term plans, neither guy is moving the needle right now, and both should really at worst fetch "future considerations."

I’m curious from the advanced stats folks if you think Strome can supplant Kuzy moving forward or is that a sizable downgrade? I would say it is a downgrade from peak Kuzy but not sure if this is what we are getting from Kuzy moving forward.

 

[SherVaughn30]

Yeah, no thanks on Seth Jones. I wouldn’t call gambling on a guy making $9.5M until 2030 (!) a buy-low opportunity, especially given the decline in his play.

Mantha for Dumba would be a better trade. Seth Jones is an over payed bust.

 

[twabby]

Mantha for Dumba would be a better trade. Seth Jones is an over payed bust.

Dumba’s contract isn’t onerous but I don’t even know if he’d be a top 6 defender on the Capitals right now. He’s exactly the type of player they should be avoiding due to the opportunity cost.

 

[twabby]

I’m curious from the advanced stats folks if you think Strome can supplant Kuzy moving forward or is that a sizable downgrade? I would say it is a downgrade from peak Kuzy but not sure if this is what we are getting from Kuzy moving forward.

I think Strome is what he is at this point, which is a good to very good 2C that can fill in as a 1C with the right linemates and can fit in well on the power play:

He’s not going to dominate like Kuznetsov did in the past at times, but I feel like those times of domination from Kuznetsov are less and less frequent than they were years ago:

I think there was an argument to make in favor of being patient with Kuznetsov given his past bursts of elite play, but I think the time for being patient is over. Strome’s last 3 years of play in aggregate are far better than Kuznetsov’s and for that reason I’d consider Strome their 1C going forward. He probably won’t be able to reach Kuznetsov’s highs but his baseline is far higher.

For a team constructed with high-end depth, a good blue line, and solid goaltending, I think competent but unspectacular play from their top 6 forwards is probably good enough to be competitive. The problem is aside from Ovechkin and Strome they aren’t even getting that.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Please and thank you. Eller has been a good solider and will always be a Capitals legend but it is time.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don’t understand why trading a guy means we now hate him and the organization doesn’t appreciate him. Now TJ is a looker room guy and I think provides a lot of value there too. But at this point I’m open to almost all trade proposals to get younger

I think people are open to good hockey trades. If that involves moving Oshie to do it, so be it. Just shuffling some of these guys off for futures however is where I think there is resistance.

 

[bacchist]

Please and thank you. Eller has been a good solider and will always be a Capitals legend but it is time.

Legend is a strong word, don't you think?

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Legend is a strong word, don't you think?

Not really. When you score the GWG for a Stanley Cup you get that title for the franchise you win with IMO.

 

[895]

Kessel asked to be traded.

Kessel: Penguins GM 'mistaken' about alleged trade request

Pittsburgh Penguins general manager Jim Rutherford and Phil Kessel are telling two different stories regarding the forward's alleged trade demands leading up to his departure from the team.Kessel was traded to the Arizona Coyotes on Saturday, and Rutherford claims the three-time All-Star asked...

www.thescore.com

Rutherford made that up

 

[g00n]

Kessel: Penguins GM 'mistaken' about alleged trade request

Pittsburgh Penguins general manager Jim Rutherford and Phil Kessel are telling two different stories regarding the forward's alleged trade demands leading up to his departure from the team.Kessel was traded to the Arizona Coyotes on Saturday, and Rutherford claims the three-time All-Star asked...

www.thescore.com

Rutherford made that up

Stories vary

 

[Hivemind]

Legend is a strong word, don't you think?

No.

 

[Calicaps]

Not really. When you score the GWG for a Stanley Cup you get that title for the franchise you win with IMO.

And the goal that starts the rally back from 0-2 in round 1 en route to that Cup.

 

[bacchist]

No.

Obviously we disagree, but from my POV that just makes him the answer to a particular trivia question.

 

[Hivemind]

Obviously we disagree, but from my POV that just makes him the answer to a particular trivia question.

That's a really detached view of things. I can't imagine anyone who's been thru the decades of suffering of Capitals playoff failures and then witnessed that goal will ever forget it. I remember the exact place I was standing when that goal was scored.

To be clear, I don't think this means we should hang onto Eller or that Eller has a blank check with the organization. I think it's past time we moved on. Treat the legends and crucial organizational veterans with respect and dignity, but build your roster looking forwards.

But Eller is definitely a legend to any Capitals fan.

 

[Jags]

People don't remember how undesirable the Caps were as a place to play for like 3 decades.

Amen. I remember hearing that we traded for Adam Oates and immediately thinking, "Yeah, right. That's a rumor." Then when it turned out to be true, thinking, "Oh, well Oates must be pissed about it. He'll be gone the second his contract expires."

It just seemed like an alien concept. Even after we got Ovi, I'm not sure we had trouble filling in the talent around the lineup because we were a dodgy destination or because GMGM wasn't that great at getting it done. Still feels like it took too long for that to turn around, and easy to believe that it might be drying up if we don't get a youth movement going soon.

That's why I'm less concerned about Ovi winning another Cup than starting the turnover and churn that will usher us into the next era -- I remember what it was like not being able to land talent in DC and don't wanna go back.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Amen. I remember hearing that we traded for Adam Oates and immediately thinking, "Yeah, right. That's a rumor." Then when it turned out to be true, thinking, "Oh, well Oates must be pissed about it. He'll be gone the second his contract expires."

It just seemed like an alien concept. Even after we got Ovi, I'm not sure we had trouble filling in the talent around the lineup because we were a dodgy destination or because GMGM wasn't that great at getting it done. Still feels like it took too long for that to turn around, and easy to believe that it might be drying up if we don't get a youth movement going soon.

That's why I'm less concerned about Ovi winning another Cup than starting the turnover and churn that will usher us into the next era -- I remember what it was like not being able to land talent in DC and don't wanna go back.

they’ll never regress like that again…..but don’t be fooled, with no “star” after Ovechkin, no way they don‘t take a few steps backwards. Unless they can pull a few gems…

 

[Jags]

they’ll never regress like that again

Thank God for the cap, because regression like that used to happen all the time in the NHL and still happens in leagues without meaningful caps. The NHL might be the best major league when it comes to parity, and it pays off huge for smaller market teams. Only poorly-run organizations don't have a chance these days.

 

[Hivemind]

I think the salary cap era has fundamentally re-shaped what it means to be a "desirable" landing spot. A lot of those old feeling stem back to the pre-cap days, where teams like New York, Toronto, Philadelphia, Colorado, and Detroit could always just throw out another big contract at a desirable free agent. That advantage is heavily curbed these days.

We're coming from an off-season in which the biggest UFA signed with Columbus. The next couple premiere free agents signed with Calgary and Ottawa. Not exactly a row of premiere franchises or destinations. The three biggest free agents to change teams in 2021 signed with New Jersey, Edmonton, and an expansion team. Aside of getting to play with McDrai, not exactly premiere destinations there either. Unless your organization is an absolute tire fire, you can generally attract talent (and, heck, even Ottawa is signing players and Vancouver secured a JT Miller extension).

I get the hesitance towards not wanting to become an undesirable place to play, but over-reacting in the other direction is letting the tail wag the dog. We want the team to be a desirable place to attract talent because we want to see the team succeed. But we shouldn't be willing to compromise the team's success to make it a desirable place to play. Roster decisions should be forward-thinking, rather than focused on past achievements. You can treat players with respect and dignity without giving them that extra contract or extra years.

 

[Jags]

You can treat players with respect and dignity without giving them that extra contract or extra years.

Yeah, and I think we proved that with Alzner. GMBM seems to have the right tendencies for the most part and has a real knack for a couple of them. Quietly one of the better GMs, in my opinion. I'd like to see him be better with coaches and turnover, but hopefully that's a work in progress.

 

[bacchist]

That's a really detached view of things. I can't imagine anyone who's been thru the decades of suffering of Capitals playoff failures and then witnessed that goal will ever forget it. I remember the exact place I was standing when that goal was scored.

To be clear, I don't think this means we should hang onto Eller or that Eller has a blank check with the organization. I think it's past time we moved on. Treat the legends and crucial organizational veterans with respect and dignity, but build your roster looking forwards.

But Eller is definitely a legend to any Capitals fan.

I will continue to reserve the title legend for guys like Ovie and Quintin Laing.

 

[Raikkonen]

pity lavi decided to insert both Backstrom and Wilson at the same time simultaneously mixing all lines in the process

he did it himself

 

[YippieKaey]

I wonder if we could make Seth Jones happen with Mantha/Eller and our 1st and a prospect.
The Hawks clearly tanking for Bedard and Mantha and Eller would work for the cap space.

Ive always like Seth Jones and thought hes was a top 3 Defender before getting traded to the Hawks might be a good time to buy low and gamble hes not washed.

Yeah i like this idea

 

[Jags]

pity lavi decided to insert both Backstrom and Wilson at the same time simultaneously mixing all lines in the process

he did it himself

I don't agree with the lines he's been using either, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Backstrom and Wilson were just starting to get their legs under them when Dowd and Ovi got dinged up, we're seeing now that Carlson leaves a sizable hole that we're not equipped to weather, and Kuzy has been a nightmare.

These are all problems that have solutions. While I agree that Lavi should go back to more practical line combos, there are other things we need to work out, too. It's not all on him.

 

[bacchist]

we're seeing now that Carlson leaves a sizable hole that we're not equipped to weather

This was immediately apparent as soon as he went down, and should have been obvious to everyone all along. It had somehow become fashionable among a certain segment of posters here to scapegoat him, but that stuff should have never been taken seriously.

The accepted wisdom here is that we were playing great until they brought back Backstrom and Wilson, and then we started sucking. But that's not really what happened. We became demonstrably worse when we lost Carlson. We were crushing, and then we lost our most important defenseman and we started sucking.

 

[g00n]

This was immediately apparent as soon as he went down, and should have been obvious to everyone all along. It had somehow become fashionable among a certain segment of posters here to scapegoat him, but that stuff should have never been taken seriously.

The accepted wisdom here is that we were playing great until they brought back Backstrom and Wilson, and then we started sucking. But that's not really what happened. We became demonstrably worse when we lost Carlson. We were crushing, and then we lost our most important defenseman and we started sucking.

Carlson's regular season value has never been questioned.

His performance in the playoffs the last 4 or so years has been ass.

There is no whitewashing that.