Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Skrudland2Lomakin

Registered User
Jan 1, 2011
7,698
5,721
Wouldn't Vrana be an indictment on most of your previous point? Vrana, of all dudes, wasn't like McMichael where he's only put up a handful of points in big games. Vrana was coming off back to back seasons with 25ish goals and 50 points. He was one of our only guys with any speed, and he was constantly benched and sat when we actually needed offense.

Like, Lavi has consistently made the decision to play older and slower players and it has had this team moving backwards in the modern style of the NHL. It's what made his Fehervary usage so crazy to me last year.
Vrana would produce points but also be largely MIA for games.

I was a huge Vrana guy, but I got why he was getting shafted, he was one dimensional at times, he was practically invisible defensively, and flat out unwilling to get into luck battles. Offensive talent is nice, but when you’re in a tight divisional race and you’re in 1 goal differential games, that 200ft player that might not have as much offensive upside does begin to have higher value.

Also Vrana was healthy scratched beyond Lavi. He was scratched by Trotz, scratched in Hershey, scratched for the Czech team. Vrana being told he’s not committed every night was not a Lavi only thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Corby78

Rayquaza64

McMichael>McDavid
May 30, 2019
1,447
1,572
Virginia
Why assume this was his motive If not to just try and drive home “the coach must go”….idea?

I think that factored exactly NOTHING into CMM‘s decision to get into it at that juncture of the game.

I also think there has been enough in CMM’s NHL resume to support that his treatment is based on the opinion by the staff and management that he has not been full time NHL-ready, not some imaginary doghouse angry fans make up.

MOJO has been better so far….I mean come on….guy outplays another guy, he wins the spot. That’s pro sports.
then if he isnt ready, whats the point of keeping a not ready player with the big club vs someone closer to ready? Why not keep a lower ceiling but higher floor guy (eg malenstyn, pilon) who have less room to develop over a prized top pick who isnt gaining anything by playing less than 10 mins a night?
 

SecretaryofDefense5

Registered User
Mar 20, 2022
3,429
3,394
Washington DC
then if he isnt ready, whats the point of keeping a not ready player with the big club vs someone closer to ready? Why not keep a lower ceiling but higher floor guy (eg malenstyn, pilon) who have less room to develop over a prized top pick who isnt gaining anything by playing less than 10 mins a night?
This. WTF are they keeping a good prospect up to serve nacho duty? Send him down to play.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rayquaza64

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
66,382
21,398
then if he isnt ready, whats the point of keeping a not ready player with the big club vs someone closer to ready? Why not keep a lower ceiling but higher floor guy (eg malenstyn, pilon) who have less room to develop over a prized top pick who isnt gaining anything by playing less than 10 mins a night?
I can only assume they see some benefit to him being with the big club and not sending him backwards in the Organization.
 

Rayquaza64

McMichael>McDavid
May 30, 2019
1,447
1,572
Virginia
I can only assume they see some benefit to him being with the big club and not sending him backwards in the Organization.
I wish I could see it because based off of almost all development patterns fourth line minutes for a skilled offense oriented prospect don't usually bring much benefit
 

Holtbyisms

Matt Irwin is a legit talent
Sponsor
Jul 1, 2012
7,488
4,369
Bedford, PA
You guys remember when Kuzy was the 4th line center and learning to play the position because he was naturally a winger? They forced fed him the role so he could get better at it, even with limited minutes. If say that worked out pretty well long term. Seems like a better approach to me to bring a prospect along...but what do I know. Like GMGM said, if I knew the game, I'd be in it. *shrug*
 
  • Like
Reactions: pman25

HTFN

Registered User
Feb 8, 2009
12,556
11,475
Kuzy, Backy, Wilson, now CMM…there was angst about all their early ice time.

First 3 turned out decent….
Uhh... the f*** is this?

Backstrom couldn't force his way off the 4th line until Hanlon was canned
Wilson couldn't force his way off the 4th line under Adam Oates
Kuznetsov couldn't earn ice time all season and kicked around the bottom six "learning" until he basically won them a playoff series and then suddenly it wasn't a problem anymore but, like... nothing really changed about him.

The angst, literally every time, has been watching guys straight up not developed in the roles they're projected to play and we're here again.
 

IafrateOvie34

Registered User
May 14, 2009
12,314
9,204
I've refuted this perspective multiple times in the past, so I'm not gonna go into much detail here. But McMichael did plenty with the very limited ice time and opportunities he got. I'm not just talking his advanced metrics (which were outstanding), but just even his raw points/60, which were better than Oshie and Backstrom's. For a player with heavily limited minutes, often playing out of position and without skilled linemates, and zero powerplay time - he did excellent.

Further still - Lavi has repeatedly demonstrated that there's no linkage between the level of CMM's play and how much ice time he receives. Look at CMM's best pre-season game this year, where he was scoring and unquestionably the best Capitals forward, and he had the least even-strength ice time of any Capitals forward who finished the game. Look at last year, where in a game in which Carl Hagelin scored against his own team and CMM scored a goal in the correct net, Hagelin still saw more ice time than CMM down the stretch. It doesn't matter how well CMM does or doesn't play, so far Lavi has refused to utilize him beyond the bare minimum level.

Also, if you're gonna pick on "anointed ones" as an example that the fanbase is setting expectations out of line with reality, you picked some pretty poor examples there. Vrana has 22G and 32P in 39GP since joining Detroit. Injuries have limited his total time, but he's more than lived up to the hype while on the ice. Meanwhile, Burakovsky just won his second Stanley Cup and is off to a point/game start in Seattle.
What is terribly sad is both were 1st round picks that turned out to be productive for a time for the Caps :(. I keep hoping the younger guys in the prospect pool or in Hershey can be a sleeper to speed the process up in youth department. IF the Caps are terrible still by the end of Decemeber, I want a total overhaul from management down to coach and someone who can build a team quickly with talent in a highly touted draft year. For now, I'm going to wait to see if the Caps can gain some self respect back, lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hivemind

trick9

Registered User
Jun 2, 2013
12,587
5,749
Not having high hopes for this season because for an old experienced team dealing with all these injuries is very tough. We have great offense IMO but only elite teams can deal with half of your top-6 being out and our defense can't shift the games to our favour unless Carlson finds his 2018 form but that doesn’t seem likely because he's heading downhill and fast. We have some solid pieces on D but it's build to be over-reliant on Carlson so you can't really overcome him being shit.

They should pick a direction soon and do some long-term planning for the kids. I don't mind McMichael not playing in the NHL, that's coaches decision and he clearly doesn't trust him but send him down to play AHL. He will get game-time there and get his chance later when usual suspects get injured or veteran UFA's are being moved at the TDL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rayquaza64

PlushMinus

Registered User
Nov 18, 2021
2,018
2,318
^^ Interesting you say "we have great offence". One of my big concerns is that we don't have much offence and will struggle to score goals this season.
 

tycoonheart

Registered User
Apr 7, 2010
10,961
3,298
Does Lavi have a good track record of developing young players? Genuine question. How has he done in that area in the past?
 

trick9

Registered User
Jun 2, 2013
12,587
5,749
^^ Interesting you say "we have great offence". One of my big concerns is that we don't have much offence and will struggle to score goals this season.
Perhaps i should have said that we would have great offense if everyone were healthy.

Obviously our offense isn't great now because of all the injuries.
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
32,972
10,165
Only three teams in the East have a lower xG% so far. Again, it's early, but I don't think that's just a function of injuries. Take a random five game sample from January and it wouldn't be so closely examined. But we work with what we've got and the sample thus far is foreboding. Underlying 5v5 play is poor. Much of their 5v5 performance was bolstered by the VAN game against a largely inexperienced, soft defense. While they opened against BOS/TOR they've played three non-playoff teams since and put up their weakest effort against OTT. The PK is in shambles. They're a bad faceoff team. Half the defense often can't be trusted and it's not like their forwards back-check with a passion.

They have their path and it revolves around special teams, discipline and blunt force. Slow starts, mental lapses and the like won't cut it. If they don't start on time and stick to the game plan they won't make it. It's a slim margin...one they haven't often had to stick so closely to. But increasingly they have to be humble, prepared and self-aware on that level or else they're not going to have success. They're not that good to play arrogant and engage in ego mode. Getting Kuznetsov back will help but they've got considerable tightening up to do in every facet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fred22406Capsfan

DWGie26

Registered User
Sponsor
Oct 6, 2019
4,449
4,703
NOVA
I like Fever’s physical presence. That is what he brought last year and he has built on that. We need someone back there who will hit. Unfortunately it also puts him out of position sometimes.

I really wish they would change up the dee pairs. Those pairings aren’t working. If not TVR up there, we should try Orlov again. And put Fever with Jensen.
 

IafrateOvie34

Registered User
May 14, 2009
12,314
9,204
I like Fever’s physical presence. That is what he brought last year and he has built on that. We need someone back there who will hit. Unfortunately it also puts him out of position sometimes.

I really wish they would change up the dee pairs. Those pairings aren’t working. If not TVR up there, we should try Orlov again. And put Fever with Jensen.

Buffalo picked up Lyabushkin who I wanted last year via trade. He would be perfect for that role, but too late now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DWGie26

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
37,467
14,121
Philadelphia
Does Lavi have a good track record of developing young players? Genuine question. How has he done in that area in the past?
He did okay-ish with it in Philadelphia, but that's because he basically didn't have a choice. They had a very young roster, and it only got younger after they traded away Richards and Carter (post-Dry Island). And even there, guys like Brayden Schenn blossomed after Lavi left.

Lavi butchered Kevin Fiala's development in Nashville, to the point where they eventually traded Fiala. Fiala went on to explode the following season in Minnesota.
 

DWGie26

Registered User
Sponsor
Oct 6, 2019
4,449
4,703
NOVA
I like Fever’s physical presence. That is what he brought last year and he has built on that. We need someone back there who will hit. Unfortunately it also puts him out of position sometimes.

I really wish they would change up the dee pairs. Those pairings aren’t working. If not TVR up there, we should try Orlov again. And put Fever with Jensen.
Glad my prophecy came true. Overall I like Fever and Jensen together. Orlov and JC74 looked much better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SecretaryofDefense5

McVechkin

Registered User
Sponsor
Jun 29, 2015
1,576
1,351
Why can’t these guys get any better at face offs? Kuz has good hand eye and fast hands.. why can’t he translate that? Not strong enough? I remember peca having a big impact on the team in that area.. am I just remembering that wrong? its time to look to bring someone else in here. This is pathetic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ovechkins Wodka

DWGie26

Registered User
Sponsor
Oct 6, 2019
4,449
4,703
NOVA
Why can’t these guys get any better at face offs? Kuz has good hand eye and fast hands.. why can’t he translate that? Not strong enough? I remember peca having a big impact on the team in that area.. am I just remembering that wrong? its time to look to bring someone else in here. This is pathetic.
Pecca was great. Only for a year though. Maybe Beagle can come coach face offs. I don’t think he is playing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IafrateOvie34

Jags

Mildly Disturbed
May 5, 2016
1,976
2,379
Central Florida
He did okay-ish with it in Philadelphia, but that's because he basically didn't have a choice. They had a very young roster

Yeah, and that's the head-scratcher with MacLellan. If our GM really wanted the kids to play, he could easily have forced Laviolette's hand. So at this point Mac is complicit. But at the end of the day there were 2 spots for prospects in our lineup McMike could have seized, and he didn't. Given what's needed from those spots, I wouldn't be playing McMichael over Protas or Snively either.
 

Brian23

Registered User
Dec 3, 2011
5,852
2,740
Yeah, and that's the head-scratcher with MacLellan. If our GM really wanted the kids to play, he could easily have forced Laviolette's hand.
But he can't. What do you think happens if GMBM just gets rid of all the old veterans that Lavi leans on and forces him to just use his new young talent? He'd be fired in a heartbeat. GMBM isn't the end all be all of this organization. Ted and Patrick are. In Washington the GM and the Head Coach are on similar levels, GMBM just has to try to get players he both believes are good but also ones Lavi will use.
But at the end of the day there were 2 spots for prospects in our lineup McMike could have seized, and he didn't. Given what's needed from those spots, I wouldn't be playing McMichael over Protas or Snively either.
What has Snively done to show he's really earned that spot though? We needed a top 6 player the last game, and Snively gets 15 minutes while Protas and CMM get 8 and 9. Snively gets PP time and Protas and CMM get no special teams time.

Week 1 where they had Brown in the lineup? Sure, I guess I can get missing a spot. Protas really showed out and earned it, but now?
 

HecticGlow

Registered User
Mar 14, 2016
1,585
1,094
Europe
But he can't. What do you think happens if GMBM just gets rid of all the old veterans that Lavi leans on and forces him to just use his new young talent? He'd be fired in a heartbeat. GMBM isn't the end all be all of this organization. Ted and Patrick are. In Washington the GM and the Head Coach are on similar levels, GMBM just has to try to get players he both believes are good but also ones Lavi will use.
GMBM is Lavi’s boss. He has the hiring and firing power over the entire coaching staff. He hired a guy who bought into a similar philosophy to the previous two HCs regarding veteran players over rookies. He repeatedly signed or traded for older, more seasoned players to fill holes instead of leaving room for those in the system. GMBM is also ultimately in charge of roster moves, including waiving guys like Leason.

Lavi playing vets over rookies is ultimately something GMBM takes responsibility for, whether or not you like or agree with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PlushMinus
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad