Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2018-19 We Are The Champions Edition - Pt. 1

[Lindemann]

At this point though, I would be glad from him to go to Tampa, just for them to lose again and show you can't buy a team in the NHL. They are the Red Sox and Yankees of the NHL

 

[895]

I do think we should exploit the Ottawa situation and get something though. Considering how strong we are at C and D, any upgrade to our team should be at W.

Mark Stone is an RFA. Consistent 20 goal, 60 point wingers with intangibles get 6-7m nowadays. Ottawa probably can't or won't pay that.

We should make an offer. Start with Burakovsky + Bowey.

 

[Calicaps]

I never really thought Hunter was a bad coach, just that his style didn't fit our roster.

That conservative and boring style could actually get some very talent deficient teams to over achieve, it's just a trash style when you have the greatest scorer in the league.

Which makes him a bad coach, IMO. It’s odd really since he’s clearly a strong development coach, but he got to the bigs and couldn’t figure out what to do with players who had offensive skill

 

[searle]

He turned down 8x10 from senators. He getting 11 mil at least

He might have turned down far more to waste his whole career there.

Not saying it'll happen, but coming off a Stanley cup victory we've already seen Kempny take a cheaper deal than anyone expected (a deal that looks better every day of free agency) .

Anyone who doubts Karlsson is legit should look at the tape of him last time the Senators were in the playoffs.... Dude was a monster.

I'd love it to happen, but the Cap situation is very tricky, especially looking at the free agents for the next few seasons.

 

[895]

Okay here's a crazy off the wall the plan. I know it won't be popular because everyone loves Tom Wilson but trying to be objective as possible, Mark Stone is better at hockey than Tom Wilson.

Sign Wilson to whatever contract he wants long term. 8x5. Pay his gigantic signing bonus. Trade him to Ottawa for Stone.

We should exploit Ted's deep pockets and Melnyk's penny pinching. They can't resist a good cheap (in real dollars) player that won't bolt in UFA asap.

 

[strungout]

Okay here's a crazy off the wall the plan. I know it won't be popular because everyone loves Tom Wilson but trying to be objective as possible, Mark Stone is better at hockey than Tom Wilson.

Sign Wilson to whatever contract he wants long term. 8x5. Pay his gigantic signing bonus. Trade him to Ottawa for Stone.

We should exploit Ted's deep pockets and Melnyk's penny pinching. They can't resist a good cheap (in real dollars) player that won't bolt in UFA asap.

Nope

 

[searle]

Okay here's a crazy off the wall the plan. I know it won't be popular because everyone loves Tom Wilson but trying to be objective as possible, Mark Stone is better at hockey than Tom Wilson.

Sign Wilson to whatever contract he wants long term. 8x5. Pay his gigantic signing bonus. Trade him to Ottawa for Stone.

We should exploit Ted's deep pockets and Melnyk's penny pinching. They can't resist a good cheap (in real dollars) player that won't bolt in UFA asap.

I'd got for this in NHL 18, but I think asking someone for a home team discount and then trading him.... Not a thing that's going to help any future negotiations as a GM.

Really like Mark Stone as a trade target though.

 

[Bananas]

Nope

Hell no.

There are plenty of 20 goal wingers in the league but there is only one Tom Wilson.

 

[kicksavedave]

Have we learned absolutely nothing from the ShatDeuces fiasco? Bringing in a guy who's value is on the PP, bumped JC out of that 1 PP D spot which messed up chemistry big time. Why did we just pay JC $8M/yr only to turn around and demote him to 2nd PP unit? Or would we trade a boat load of assets for EK, then pay him $11M, only to put HIM on the 2nd PP unit? Either move, it makes no sense on the ice or on the cap.

Not all upgrades on paper are upgrades on the ice and in the room and on the cap. This is a perfect example. EK doesn't fill a massive hole here, he makes things over crowded. Dan Snyder would do this. GMBM is hopefully smarter than this.

 

[Hivemind]

I never really thought Hunter was a bad coach, just that his style didn't fit our roster.

That conservative and boring style could actually get some very talent deficient teams to over achieve, it's just a trash style when you have the greatest scorer in the league.

Dale Hunter was definitely a bad NHL coach. He succeeds in the OHL largely because of how well the London Knights are ran as a franchsie in general (and both he and his brother should get plenty of credit as OHL executives for that). But in the NHL he was outclassed both tactically and in terms of managing the team/locker room. I remember there being a few quotes floating around about how he basically never talked to the players outside of practice. I think it was Erskine who said he hadn't talked to Hunter in over a month during a stretch in which Erskine was being scratched. Tactically, he ran about as whitebread of a strategy as was possible. Nothing but box + 1 in the defensive zone and 1-2-2 neutral zone traps. Almost no variation in forchecks based on opponent. Almost no variation in schemes to get particular lines into a rhythm or to maximize the skillsets of his players. Box+1 and 1-2-2 are fine as hockey fundamentals, and every team should know how to play them. But that's also the issue, they're basic fundamental and just about every team and every coach knows how to counteract them. You need more wrinkles and adjustments at the NHL level to stay ahead of your competition.

 

[kicksavedave]

I'd add, the only way an EK deal really works is if Nisky goes out with the trade, so EK slots into that 1 RD spot, only increases our cap hit by the difference between Nisky and EK. Still jacks up the PP slots though. Still not a fan no matter how we work it.

 

[Hivemind]

Have we learned absolutely nothing from the ShatDeuces fiasco? Bringing in a guy who's value is on the PP, bumped JC out of that 1 PP D spot which messed up chemistry big time. Why did we just pay JC $8M/yr only to turn around and demote him to 2nd PP unit? Or would we trade a boat load of assets for EK, then pay him $11M, only to put HIM on the 2nd PP unit? Either move, it makes no sense on the ice or on the cap.

Not all upgrades on paper are upgrades on the ice and in the room and on the cap. This is a perfect example. EK doesn't fill a massive hole here, he makes things over crowded. Dan Snyder would do this. GMBM is hopefully smarter than this.

I'm not particularly jumping at the bit to bring in Karlsson since Carlson has returned. But saying Erik Karlsson's "value is on the PP" is drastically underselling what Erik Karlsson does in general. Until this past season, Erik Karlsson's even-strength point production was basically equivalent to John Carlson's total point production. EK is a phenomenal player who can handle all phases of the game well, and drives play forwards at even-strength quite well.

I also dispute that Shattenkirk disrupted the PP's chemistry, but that's a different conversation.

 

[895]

I'd got for this in NHL 18, but I think asking someone for a home team discount and then trading him.... Not a thing that's going to help any future negotiations as a GM.

Really like Mark Stone as a trade target though.

Well in this scenario I don't think we'd ask for a discount.

 

[895]

Hell no.

There are plenty of 20 goal wingers in the league but there is only one Tom Wilson.

There's only one Mark Stone too.

Mark Stone might be the best defensive winger in the NHL.

 

[Lindemann]

Have we learned absolutely nothing from the ShatDeuces fiasco? Bringing in a guy who's value is on the PP, bumped JC out of that 1 PP D spot which messed up chemistry big time. Why did we just pay JC $8M/yr only to turn around and demote him to 2nd PP unit? Or would we trade a boat load of assets for EK, then pay him $11M, only to put HIM on the 2nd PP unit? Either move, it makes no sense on the ice or on the cap.

Not all upgrades on paper are upgrades on the ice and in the room and on the cap. This is a perfect example. EK doesn't fill a massive hole here, he makes things over crowded. Dan Snyder would do this. GMBM is hopefully smarter than this.

Comparing EK to Shattentrash is a pretty big leap

 

[um]

Hell no.

There are plenty of 20 goal wingers in the league but there is only one Tom Wilson.

The Homerism on here is getting silly. Obviously you trade Wilson for Stone, that would be like trading Burakovsky for Nylander. Cmon people!

 

[kicksavedave]

I'm not particularly jumping at the bit to bring in Karlsson since Carlson has returned. But saying Erik Karlsson's "value is on the PP" is drastically underselling what Erik Karlsson does in general. Until this past season, Erik Karlsson's even-strength point production was basically equivalent to John Carlson's total point production. EK is a phenomenal player who can handle all phases of the game well, and drives play forwards at even-strength quite well.

I also dispute that Shattenkirk disrupted the PP's chemistry, but that's a different conversation.

Poor choice of words on my part. No question EK has lots of other value all around, but we would not simply add that value without devaluing something else. Just saying, you don't pay a guy $11M to be on the 2nd PP, or frankly pay JC $8M to be on the 2nd PP either. Nor should we pay either player that cash and ask them to play LD either. Adding EK adds plenty, but also subtracts a non trivial amount from what is working well right now, including cap flexibility.

There were some quotes in the post Cup winning articles about how the Shat trade didn't work, specifically I think from or about JC about how it booted him from the 1 PP.

 

[kicksavedave]

Comparing EK to Shattentrash is a pretty big leap

I'm not remotely comparing them as players. Just pointing out how adding a new 1 RD bumped JC down... Bumping JC down when he makes $4M is one thing, its different when he makes $8M (by far tops for D on the roster). Just saying every move has a set of unintended consequences, not always good ones.

Thats all I'm saying. Not saying EK isn't a great player that would be an improvement over anyone we have, but at what total cost?

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Tom Wilson is our next captain....

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Tom Wilson is our next captain....

Doubt that

 

[kicksavedave]

Here are the quotes I was using when talking about how free agent's fit.

MacLellan entered the month with a spotty record of midseason acquisitions. In 2015, he added defenseman Tim Gleason and forward Curtis Glencross. The latter was supposed to play on the second line, yet he was scratched three straight games in the playoffs. The following year, he brought in forward Daniel Winnik, who failed to register a point in the postseason. In 2017, as the team barreled to another Presidents’ Trophy, he made his most significant splash, trading two prospects and a first-round draft pick for defenseman Kevin Shattenkirk.

That move was designed to win the Stanley Cup. It didn’t. MacLellan and the players in the dressing room understood the delicate nature of making such an addition. Shattenkirk, for instance, went right onto the Capitals’ top power-play unit, which didn’t really need help. Carlson, the incumbent point man and a player of stature himself, was effectively demoted. It just didn’t click.

“It’s funny,” Orpik said. “Kevin Shattenkirk’s a great player, and I don’t know if he ever completely felt comfortable last year. When he came in, it also kind of pushed Carly into a different role. So it disrupted more than just the slot that he was in. . . . That’s why I think as a GM it’s such a tricky time of the year, trying to figure out if those moves are going to work.”

And then the opposite move, seeming to have learned that fit is more important than talent.

But MacLellan also knew what he wanted: a defenseman who could go get pucks, who could move them and, ideally, who could be a partner with Carlson. “We needed to replace Schmidt,” he said. He and his staff zeroed in on 27-year-old Michal Kempny of the Chicago Blackhawks. Kempny had signed as a free agent a year earlier after playing professionally in his native Czech Republic and in the Kontinental Hockey League, but he was unhappy.



The Capitals had inquired about some of the best defensemen available — Ryan McDonagh of the Rangers, Erik Karlsson of the Ottawa Senators. But they couldn’t afford the contracts or the cost in prospects. Two days later, MacLellan sent a third-round draft pick to Chicago for Kempny.“He was always Plan A,” MacLellan said.

After a shaky first game at Florida on Feb. 22, Kempny steadied himself. Trotz paired him with Carlson — who, unlike after the addition of Shattenkirk, kept his spot on the top power-play unit.


“Such a good fit,” Niskanen said. “I think he’s underrated. He’s a good complement for John. In general, the more good players you have, the better you’ll do. But it doesn’t always work. Sometimes, teams try to just add the biggest name, and maybe they don’t fit really well. This fit really, really well.”

All I'm saying is, Dan Snyder adds names. Championship managers consider fit, chemistry and cost being as important as the name/talent.

 

[kicksavedave]

Tom Wilson is our next captain....

Doubt that

I think he'd have to jump over Oshie who will be here for 7 more years likely.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Tom Wilson is our next captain....

Wouldn't be shocked...one of a handful of great options...A lot of scenarios could happen between now and NoMoreOvy….

 

[Roughing]

You always look to get better. Always. I'd be chatting with Ottawa a lot.

 

[um]

Tom Wilson is our next captain....

So was Laich.

Heart and soul is great, but hockey ability is still relevant in this league. Stone is miles better than Wilson.