Capitals owner unveiling plans for new arena in Northern Virginia

[ElGuapo]

I personally have never been to the DC area so have no idea. I heard a guy on XM Radio this afternoon go on a rant about it. He lives in Northern Virginia and says the traffic is already worse in Northern Virginia (he lives there) than DC itself and it's going to get worse and he doesn't want the arena where he lives because it's going to make life shittier. He lives 26 miles from the current arena but says it can take two hours to get there because of traffic. So if you're in DC and already used to being close it's going to suck.

 

[nickp91]

Time for Baltimore Maryland to start a successful NBA franchise

 

[mrv52]

So this was all just a bluff by lenosis to get taxpayers to fund the renovations. Would have been strange to move after spending lots of his own money in renovating captial one arena.

The DC proposal came out a couple hours after he announced the VA deal. It was also less than what he was asking for by 100mm. DC's chances have come and gone, barring VA shooting the whole thing down. This should not surprise anyone, DC dragged their feet for years. Anyone who is upset by this needs to look at DC, not Leonsis.

Ironically, Leonsis announced he was still willing to support keeping Cap One viable. So that is the bluff really. Lets see if DC really wants it albeit at much lower renovation costs and revenue stream.

 

[SI90]

The Virginia Capital’s just doest sound right

 

[eojsmada]

Time for Baltimore Maryland to start a successful NBA franchise

That's where the Wizards started...it didn't work out so well

 

[Drake1588]

To be clear, the Caps are moving six, seven stops on the yellow metro line, from Chinatown to Potomac Yard. That's 20 minutes at rush hour.

...but they might as well be moving to another country as far as how differently they get treated as a business in moving from Maryland to DC in 1997 and to Virginia in 2028. Hard liberal in MD to just incompetent in DC to solidly purple and pro-business in VA.

The VA governor wants to lure businesses and he's racking up a pretty impressive tally in the last couple of years. Is the state going to fork over tax breaks? Damned straight. Is the state going to make a windfall from the new businesses that crop up around those businesses over decades? Yes, they certainly will in the Crystal City and northern Alexandria area.

Not all regions work that way and not all cities' calculus should be the same. Yet NoVA is growing really fast. There's a a ton of money there, and Ted Leonsis claims that most of his season ticket base is there. Beyond that, DC is kind of a pit and the scatterbrained government of DC treats the team badly. It has gotten worse inside the city recently.

At least they aren't moving off grid. This isn't Kanata. It's on the city's metro. It's also five minutes from the airport. It's going to make travel a dream for visitors.

It's a bitter pill for the old timey MD fans. They were fans back when no one else could go to the games because they played in bumf***, Maryland, nowhere near the public transit grid. It made the relationship with the Caps fans quaint and special, but very small time and they nearly lost the Caps circa '82. The team has signaled it wants VA dollars for a long time now, and this is only making that shift in the gravitational pull southwards official. I get that it leaves some MD fans bitter, but that was also true to a great degree for them when the Caps moved to DC. That heartbreak, in many ways, is 25 years old.

 

[Look Up]

MCI Center was located in DC because previous owner Abe Pollin privately financed it.

Leonsis had options, and took the best one for him financially.

Fans who are upset at the move should be mad at the DC government and not the owner.

 

[Midnight Judges]

The traffic situation is getting overblown. Getting in and around Alexandria is much easier than DC streets. In addition, road improvement projects for this area are already on the books. In the preposterous chance that further improvements are not being considered, the State legislature will demand it in order for it to be approved.

I appreciate your optimism but there really is not an opportunity for meaningful road improvements in terms of capacity. The area - minus a few acres - is already fully built out.

...unless the state is going to fork over several billion dollars to add a new bridge over the Potomac or another several billion to run an interstate-sized connector from Potomac yard to 395 - which would require eminent domaining (confiscating) probably 3,000 homes or more and bulldozing them. But that isn't going to happen either because it's an affluent area of mostly white people.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Fans who are upset at the move should be mad at the DC government and not the owner.

Mad at the Government for not giving away tax dollars to another greedy billionaire who is turning massive profits? No.

I'm annoyed at the Virginia Government for being willing to do that. I realize they are currently pretending the money will come out of thin air, but that's bs.

 

[Bankers Box]

Seems like owners moving their arenas to the burbs for subsidies typically sucks for fans and leads to poor attendance in lean years (which the Caps appear to be heading towards). Probably worth it financially for Leonsis, but maybe bad for fans?

Although admittedly I have no idea wether their current arena is even downtown

Potomac Yard is not really the burbs though.

This is a terrible idea though bc now many people will have to switch metro lines at Rosslyn to get to the game instead of just staying on the silver or orange line

I appreciate your optimism but there really is not an opportunity for meaningful road improvements in terms of capacity. The area - minus a few acres - is already fully built out.

...unless the state is going to fork over several billion dollars to add a new bridge over the Potomac or another several billion to run an interstate-sized connector from Potomac yard to 395 - which would require eminent domaining (confiscating) probably 3,000 homes or more and bulldozing them. But that isn't going to happen either because it's an affluent area of mostly white people.

Exactly, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

I don’t know what idea is worse, an arena in Alexandria or a casino in Reston? What the hell are the Nova politicians thinking.

Takes me 15 minutes in traffic just to get to my mailbox

 

[AcerComputer]

Mad at the Government for not giving away tax dollars to another greedy billionaire who is turning massive profits? No.

I'm annoyed at the Virginia Government for being willing to do that. I realize they are currently pretending the money will come out of thin air, but that's bs.

You realize that almost no sports arena is privately funded. It always gets tax breaks and incentives. They are bringing 10s of thousands of jobs to the State, which means tax revenue for them. So they are not actually giving away tax dollars and getting little in return, like most government spending. This is a huge win for VA, which is why DC is panicking to put together a proposal.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

…and we will call the location Kanata.

So it'll become part of DC a few years later?

 

[Midnight Judges]

You realize that almost no sports arena is privately funded. It always gets tax breaks and incentives.

This is something that has changed over time and for good reason.

But in today's climate, sports team owners are making lots of money. They've found ways to cash in through TV deals. We don't actually need to give them more money.

Back when sports teams were a fun thing that communities wanted for fun and rich people owned but broke even - that was different. Nowadays they're milking it for every penny and doing quite well. Even scumbag failure Dan Snyder bought the Redskins for $800M and sold for $6B.

These people don't need more of our money. But they'll take it if we're dumb enough.

They are bringing 10s of thousands of jobs to the State, which means tax revenue for them. So they are not actually giving away tax dollars and getting little in return, like most government spending. This is a huge win for VA, which is why DC is panicking to put together a proposal.

No, the economic impact is not gong to be tens of thousands of jobs. Our area already has a 2.4% unemployment rate. You could create a million new jobs and that 2.4% is barely going to budge. Even in huge recessions it rarely exceeds 4%. Our local economy is based largely on Government and Government contracting - and those dollars don't ever go away basically. We are largely recession-proof and we don't lack for jobs.

This is not a huge win for Virginia. It's a bunch of traffic that nobody wants in service to a greedy douchebag owner and the politicians he's bought.

And frankly, it's an extremely myopic view of the world to favor VA over DC economically. DC is 2 miles away as the crow flies. But since there is an invisible border there I should care if jobs exist here in Virginia where they're NOT needed instead of a few miles further north where they might actually do some good? -That makes no sense to me. It's something a butthead politician would care about as opposed to a rational citizen.

 

[cptjeff]

I personally have never been to the DC area so have no idea. I heard a guy on XM Radio this afternoon go on a rant about it. He lives in Northern Virginia and says the traffic is already worse in Northern Virginia (he lives there) than DC itself and it's going to get worse and he doesn't want the arena where he lives because it's going to make life shittier. He lives 26 miles from the current arena but says it can take two hours to get there because of traffic. So if you're in DC and already used to being close it's going to suck.

If you live 26 miles/2 hours out you're way out in the middle of nowhere DC area wise and quite frankly, that opinion doesn't count for everything. And for every fan from Baltimore who might not come anymore they'll gain fans from Richmond who it's slightly more convenient for (seriously, Richmond is less than a 2 hour drive despite being about 100 miles away- that's how out in the boonies that guy is). But the Caps are not worried about those people. At all. They're worried about their core attendees who, guess what, actually live in the immediate area. The vast, vast, majority of fans are in the immediate area and take the metro. The new area is also on the metro. Driving anywhere in the DC area is a nightmare, and there is no location that is good for driving to the game. The current location is also a nightmare for driving to a game.

 

[Kimota]

Don't forget DC's covid stuff was far more strict than anything in VA, and that crime and the whole anti-police situation in DC have really changed. Certain parts of DC were already crime ridden but some places have gotten way worse.

It's just better business in VA.

Would not be shocked if other franchises don't do the same thing.

 

[mrv52]

I appreciate your optimism but there really is not an opportunity for meaningful road improvements in terms of capacity. The area - minus a few acres - is already fully built out.

...unless the state is going to fork over several billion dollars to add a new bridge over the Potomac or another several billion to run an interstate-sized connector from Potomac yard to 395 - which would require eminent domaining (confiscating) probably 3,000 homes or more and bulldozing them. But that isn't going to happen either because it's an affluent area of mostly white people.

None of these large projects are needed. Think about when MCI opened. That area was fully built out as well. Other than closing F Street in front of the building, nothing was closed down and traffic, while a bit congested mainly after the event, was never really a huge problem nor is it in most inner city arenas. (Tampa and Denver are two I have been many times) The problem, as you sorta point out, is getting over the river. This is something VA fans have been doing for 25+ years already. There are no chronic horror stories about that other than just "normal screwed up" DC traffic. I had season tickets until 2014 and drove in from Leesburg regularly. While it was a time investment for sure, it was only really bad a handful of times and most of those were affected by either weather or something going on in DC like the Christmas tree lighting or such.

Would not be shocked if other franchises don't do the same thing.

I dont see any chance the Redskins build in DC. There is no place left that is worth investing in that has the acreage. The Lerners took the last spot for the Nats.

 

[mrv52]

If you live 26 miles/2 hours out you're way out in the middle of nowhere DC area wise and quite frankly, that opinion doesn't count for everything. And for every fan from Baltimore who might not come anymore they'll gain fans from Richmond who it's slightly more convenient for (seriously, Richmond is less than a 2 hour drive despite being about 100 miles away- that's how out in the boonies that guy is). But the Caps are not worried about those people. At all. They're worried about their core attendees who, guess what, actually live in the immediate area. The vast, vast, majority of fans are in the immediate area and take the metro. The new area is also on the metro. Driving anywhere in the DC area is a nightmare, and there is no location that is good for driving to the game. The current location is also a nightmare for driving to a game.

I agree with most of what you say but 26 mile radius in the DC area is nothing. That covers most of Montgomery, Fairfax and PG county. There is still western/southern Anne Arundel , Loudoun, and PW county which is considered the DC Metro area which have large population bases, and money.

That said, DC is becoming somewhat irrelevant in terms of business, and really has for a few decades. Most of the entertainment districts in DC (sans Georgetown) close early (9-10PM). The Feds are what drives it and good portion of those people come in from central VA and WV. They are mostly all in and out for work.

The two hour drive that guy was referring to was hyperbole. It may have taken him two hours a couple times, but generally speaking, it is an isolated event.

 

[Djp]

I personally have never been to the DC area so have no idea. I heard a guy on XM Radio this afternoon go on a rant about it. He lives in Northern Virginia and says the traffic is already worse in Northern Virginia (he lives there) than DC itself and it's going to get worse and he doesn't want the arena where he lives because it's going to make life shittier. He lives 26 miles from the current arena but says it can take two hours to get there because of traffic. So if you're in DC and already used to being close it's going to suck.

The arena is still in the city core so traffic wont change for those in the outer suburbs of Northern virginia.

the new arena will be right at a metro station. many use the subway to get to the current arena.

the argument made is nothing

I appreciate your optimism but there really is not an opportunity for meaningful road improvements in terms of capacity. The area - minus a few acres - is already fully built out.

you seem to have never been in the area nor know what else is going on there.

below --that Potomac Yard center is going through a major development plan



this was pre covid

the building and lot at the top (a regal cinema) has been torn down. the new potamac yard station for subway/metro has been built and located in the upper right. all that are in the upper right corner has been developed with 4-6+ story apartment/condos. in my image in a prior post shows that development in that area where i showed the metro station image.

phase 1 they gutted the movie theater. its the deep colored area in the image below.
phase 2 and 3 is gutting this shopping center and put high rises. the faded area in the image below.

below is what that area will look lie by 2031ish. that white dotted bock in upper right is the new metro station.

...unless the state is going to fork over several billion dollars to add a new bridge over the Potomac or another several billion to run an interstate-sized connector from Potomac yard to 395 - which would require eminent domaining (confiscating) probably 3,000 homes or more and bulldozing them. But that isn't going to happen either because it's an affluent area of mostly white people.

again---you seem to have no idea of the local area. the potimac yard area is just south of DCA airport. there are local roads west to 395, north on US 1 or GW parkway to 395 and then south to 95/495.

Potomac Yard is not really the burbs though.

This is a terrible idea though bc now many people will have to switch metro lines at Rosslyn to get to the game instead of just staying on the silver or orange line


Exactly, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

I don’t know what idea is worse, an arena in Alexandria or a casino in Reston? What the hell are the Nova politicians thinking.

Takes me 15 minutes in traffic just to get to my mailbox

currently those on blue/orange/silver have to change stations. to red yellow or green. its moving the transfer to roslyn, lenfant, and metro center

So it'll become part of DC a few years later?

It was originally part of DC.

Virginia and Maryland gave the fed govt a 10 square mile block of land along the river to build the capitol.

DC gave the land back to Virginia. arlington county consists of this original land. part of alexandria is the rest of this original land. in the map above the creek that runs south of the airport makes much of the boundary between arlington and alexandria.

 

[Djp]

None of these large projects are needed. Think about when MCI opened. That area was fully built out as well. Other than closing F Street in front of the building, nothing was closed down and traffic, while a bit congested mainly after the event, was never really a huge problem nor is it in most inner city arenas. (Tampa and Denver are two I have been many times) The problem, as you sorta point out, is getting over the river. This is something VA fans have been doing for 25+ years already. There are no chronic horror stories about that other than just "normal screwed up" DC traffic. I had season tickets until 2014 and drove in from Leesburg regularly. While it was a time investment for sure, it was only really bad a handful of times and most of those were affected by either weather or something going on in DC like the Christmas tree lighting or such.

I live a mile near this new site. They have been building uo in the area but there has been minor traffic problems. the construction is not on a main road but a local road. they have had this limited at times to 1 lane each way in building zones.

right before the new metro station opened they closed down part of a neighboring road to redo the intersection and the side road that ends newr the station entrance.

When they rebuild the potimac yard region, I dont see it impacting local traffice because they are turning an existing shopping area.

I dont see any chance the Redskins build in DC. There is no place left that is worth investing in that has the acreage. The Lerners took the last spot for the Nats.

a possible site is using the land the old RFK stadium is on for the Commanders to use as a stadium site. Its more likely to be in Virginia though because of baltimore existing.

I agree with most of what you say but 26 mile radius in the DC area is nothing. That covers most of Montgomery, Fairfax and PG county. There is still western/southern Anne Arundel , Loudoun, and PW county which is considered the DC Metro area which have large population bases, and money.

That said, DC is becoming somewhat irrelevant in terms of business, and really has for a few decades. Most of the entertainment districts in DC (sans Georgetown) close early (9-10PM). The Feds are what drives it and good portion of those people come in from central VA and WV. They are mostly all in and out for work.

The two hour drive that guy was referring to was hyperbole. It may have taken him two hours a couple times, but generally speaking, it is an isolated event.

I have lived in the DC/bz;timore area most of my adult life since 1995. I have seen how things have developed and changed. now its mainly gutting old sites and building on them.

90+ minute commutes still exist.

 

[Curufinwe]

You realize that almost no sports arena is privately funded. It always gets tax breaks and incentives. They are bringing 10s of thousands of jobs to the State

No, a new sports arena is not going to bring in 10,000+ jobs.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

It will be a great day if and when there is some sort of judicial precedent established that makes this whole billionaire sports owner grift outright illegal.

American pro sports leagues and their owners are now ROUTINELY behaving as full-blown extortion cartels. I can’t believe how out of control it is and how so many people don’t see how destructive the practice is beyond simply the “unfairness”. None of these things actually “help people”. For every 1,000 close to minimum wage jobs created, there are tens or hundreds of thousands priced out of their homes from either the uptick in taxes or skyrocketing rents. For every new corporate mega restaurant or business, multiple others are out out of business entirely.

Billion dollar publicly financed, mega corporation owned entities don’t “help” anyone except for the owner and a few other executives. Every time this gaslighting happens, I f***ing lose my mind.

 

[mrv52]

I live a mile near this new site. They have been building uo in the area but there has been minor traffic problems. the construction is not on a main road but a local road. they have had this limited at times to 1 lane each way in building zones.

right before the new metro station opened they closed down part of a neighboring road to redo the intersection and the side road that ends newr the station entrance.

When they rebuild the potimac yard region, I dont see it impacting local traffice because they are turning an existing shopping area.



a possible site is using the land the old RFK stadium is on for the Commanders to use as a stadium site. Its more likely to be in Virginia though because of baltimore existing.



I have lived in the DC/bz;timore area most of my adult life since 1995. I have seen how things have developed and changed. now its mainly gutting old sites and building on them.

90+ minute commutes still exist.

I have lived here all my life. Grew up in Bethesda in the 70's and went to Rockville to Annapolis, and now Leesburg. I have worked in downtown DC, Alexandria (Eisenhower av) and now Sterling. I have seen it all as well. I guess to me it is just part of life here. I dont do much of it anymore if I dont have to, and to be honest, the time investment of going from Leesburg to Verizon was one of the reasons I gave up my tickets in 2014.

As for the old RFK site, the stadium that is eventually going to be built will be like SoFi in LA. There is no economic benefit to putting such a complex in that part of town, unless you redevelop everything east of there to the PG line. Simply put, it is the hood.

 

[Neil Racki]

Virginia Caps fans happy and greatly under selling the pain in the ass it will be for the Maryland fans

But we will see

But I do know .. f*** Ted and his Qataris backers

Hes the new Dan Snyder imo

 

[mrv52]

Virginia Caps fans happy and greatly under selling the pain in the ass it will be for the Maryland fans

But we will see

But I do know .. f*** Ted and his Qataris backers

Hes the new Dan Snyder imo

Virginia fans are not anymore happy than they would have been. It is mostly a neutral change.

It appears that you and a few others here opinion of Leonsis, and a certain political blush, which you are fully entitled to, is influencing your thought process here.

 

[SenzZen]

Clarice’s training made this news less confusing for me.