Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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Grabovski isn't worth keeping as a UFA if you have to pay him $6 million this year for a cap hit of $5.5 million.
Salary Cap: Cap Management by Burke and Nonis
- Thread starter TheCLAM
- Start date
Grabovski isn't worth keeping as a UFA if you have to pay him $6 million this year for a cap hit of $5.5 million.
hobarth
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- Jul 10, 2011
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I've already provided market comparables for both players in the "Most expensive 3rd line in the NHL" thread.
Stephen
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I'm not a particularly big Grabovski fan and I see a lot of problems paying out that kind of coin for not only okay production, but I have a lot of issues with him being retained at core player money, especially since:
-his playmaking is awful, which limits his ability to find chemistry with teammates.
-not effective on the cycle
-doesn't control the ice at all as a center
-shows up once every 2 or 3 games which makes his production unreliable.
-actually hasn't posted a single point in the past five games, doesn't get nearly the same flack as Kessel for not scoring goals.
-bad on special teams.
-seems to have built a reputation on having big games and making big plays, but they are few and far between
hobarth
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- Jul 10, 2011
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Are you seriously saying you think that Grabo is equal to the players on your list ?
Man I wish I was a GM in the NHL and discussing trades with you!!
Crumbs, what were the leafs supposed to do, let Lupul walk, then what, maybe Kessel is no longer as effective without Lupul on his line
You raise the issue of non competitiveness, and that's the reason the Leafs have to slightly overpay to keep talent on the books
When your competitive like Boston, players are willing to sign slightly cheaper in the hope of winning a cup
Simples!!
You raise the issue of non competitiveness, and that's the reason the Leafs have to slightly overpay to keep talent on the books
When your competitive like Boston, players are willing to sign slightly cheaper in the hope of winning a cup
Simples!!
My Sweet Shadow
Registered User
The Rangers were synonymous with signing mediocre players to extravagant contracts (see Drury, Gomez, Redden, etc.), yet it hasn't hampered them from acquiring Richards, Gaborik, and Nash $6.5M+ each. Not to mention locking up their goalie for $6.875M.
Comparatively, we've got it easy; only 4 players locked up past next year (Lupul, Grabovski, JVR, and Liles) at $20.375 and none of those guys are ridiculously overpaid. We'd be able to move any one of them in a heartbeat.
Comparatively, we've got it easy; only 4 players locked up past next year (Lupul, Grabovski, JVR, and Liles) at $20.375 and none of those guys are ridiculously overpaid. We'd be able to move any one of them in a heartbeat.
I was taking players from your list here
and then showing the percentage of the cap hit they took up when they signed. As you can see Grabo signed for a smaller percentage of the cap hit than most of those other players. I think those other players are better than Grabo (by varying degrees). We could easily call Grabo overpaid if his percentage was higher than all those players, but it isn't.
Also the best market comparables would be to compare to players who signed recently and not players who signed in many cases 2-3 years ago and unfortunately there are not many of them. Forwards who signed for a similar amount of money (not RFA forwards) somewhat recently is pretty much limited to Zajac (5.75) and Doan (5.3)
how has he not lived up to his contract?
10 goals 25 assist in 59 games 09-10
29 goals 29 assist in 81 games 10-11
23 goals 28 assist in 74 games 11-12
that is second line production
and he is an excellent two way player
and at faceoffs
he is 29 years old
he makes 5.5 million a year
not overpaid or underpaid
stasney 27 years old
09-10 79 points (81 games)
10-11 57 points (74 games)
11-12 53 points (79 games)
makes 6.6 million a year
plakanec 30 years old
09-10 70 points (82 games)
10-11 57 points (77 games)
11-12 52 points (81 games)
makes 5 million a year
legwand 32 years old
09-10 38 points (82 games)
10-11 41 points (64 games)
11-12 53 points (71 games)
makes 4.5 million a year
mike richards 27 years old
09-10 62 points (82 games)
10-11 66 points (81 games)
11-12 44 points (74 games)
makes 5.75 million a year
cammalari 30 years old
09-10 50 points (65 games)
10-11 47 points (67 games)
11-12 41 points (66 games)
makes 6.6 million a year
horcoff 34 years old
09-10 36 points (77 games)
10-11 27 points (47 games)
11-12 34 points (81 games)
makes 5,5 million a year
umberger 30 years old
09-10 55 points (82 games)
10-11 57 points (82 games)
11-12 40 points (77 games)
makes 4.6 million a year
zayjac 27 years old
09-10 67 points (82 games)
10-11 44 points (82 games)
11-12 6 points (15 games)
makes 5.75 million a year
those are his comparables
grabbo is a good second line player
he is producing like a second line player
and getting paid like a second line player
personally i believe that based on production, the only overpaid player on the leafs is
komaserik
and even his contract doesn't bother me
BECAUSE ITS NOT MY MONEY
and the team hasn't spent near the cap in over 5 years so its not like he is the reason the team hasn't gotten top free agents over the years
we worry about how much money these guys make too much
if they don't get the money, someone else will.
and it wont be you or me.
also he has 5 points in 11 games so far
10 goals 25 assist in 59 games 09-10
29 goals 29 assist in 81 games 10-11
23 goals 28 assist in 74 games 11-12
that is second line production
and he is an excellent two way player
and at faceoffs
he is 29 years old
he makes 5.5 million a year
not overpaid or underpaid
stasney 27 years old
09-10 79 points (81 games)
10-11 57 points (74 games)
11-12 53 points (79 games)
makes 6.6 million a year
plakanec 30 years old
09-10 70 points (82 games)
10-11 57 points (77 games)
11-12 52 points (81 games)
makes 5 million a year
legwand 32 years old
09-10 38 points (82 games)
10-11 41 points (64 games)
11-12 53 points (71 games)
makes 4.5 million a year
mike richards 27 years old
09-10 62 points (82 games)
10-11 66 points (81 games)
11-12 44 points (74 games)
makes 5.75 million a year
cammalari 30 years old
09-10 50 points (65 games)
10-11 47 points (67 games)
11-12 41 points (66 games)
makes 6.6 million a year
horcoff 34 years old
09-10 36 points (77 games)
10-11 27 points (47 games)
11-12 34 points (81 games)
makes 5,5 million a year
umberger 30 years old
09-10 55 points (82 games)
10-11 57 points (82 games)
11-12 40 points (77 games)
makes 4.6 million a year
zayjac 27 years old
09-10 67 points (82 games)
10-11 44 points (82 games)
11-12 6 points (15 games)
makes 5.75 million a year
those are his comparables
grabbo is a good second line player
he is producing like a second line player
and getting paid like a second line player
personally i believe that based on production, the only overpaid player on the leafs is
komaserik
and even his contract doesn't bother me
BECAUSE ITS NOT MY MONEY
and the team hasn't spent near the cap in over 5 years so its not like he is the reason the team hasn't gotten top free agents over the years
we worry about how much money these guys make too much
if they don't get the money, someone else will.
and it wont be you or me.
also he has 5 points in 11 games so far
kessel will be resigned if he is willing to rework a contract .....burke made it hard on all counts ,by giving up too much ,and paying him 1.5 million a year too much
he got more than shea weber ,parise ,suter ,all did at the same age ,,,i doubt minnesota would trade parise for kessel right now ....like kessel or not ,the ecomics point to him either giving a hometown discount ,or walk ....
The Podium
Registered User
Your comparing point totals between a guy who plays with Kulemin and MacArthur vs. a guy who spent most of his career with Parise and now Kovalchuck? The fact that there is only a 9 point difference in career highs is incredible considering line-mates and ice-time. Check their points/60 and Corsi QoT in Grabos 58 point season and Zajacs 67 point season and then let me know who had the better season of the two....
The Podium
Registered User
Are you seriously that dense? He is showing how although better plays are being paid less, its not becausee they are on a steal of a deal. After 5 or so year since the deal has been signed the cap had gone up and those 5 million dollar contracts were originally a larger portion of the cap than Grabovskis 5.25 million deal. Keslers for example would be closer to 6 million if he signed to the same contract last season because that would be his % of the total cap.
People want to ***** just to *****. At least some people like you see reality for what it is.
The Podium
Registered User
The guy has actually had 2 seasons below 50 points (on pace for) his rookie and 3rd year
4 50 or 50 pace seasons
1 60 point pace season
1 PPG season
The guy is regularly a 50-60 point player and like has been argued for Grabo thats market value. The problem with his contract is that hes often injured and those types of players hurt a playoff team when they cant acquire an adequate replacement due to their pending return into the lineup.
Rants Mulliniks
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- Jun 22, 2008
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The Podium
Registered User
We live in a world where Ville Leino can get 4.5 million per. Upcoming and current UFA's will get big raises. No surprise.
Some of Burke's best trades were made because of having the cap room and willingness to take on someone else's cap management mistakes. Lupul and Lombardi trades come to mind. Going forward, the ability to move cap room in trades gives a team more flexibility. The key point to this is that good cap management (ie having cap room) is important for a successful team. That is why I'm so against acquiring Luongo and their ilk and their cap killer contracts (unless the Leafs are properly compensated for taking on these negative assets).
Bomber0104
Registered User
Missed the playoffs for eight straight years, placing bottom ten for 4 of them and spending well up to the cap in each of those seasons..
No, we don't have a cap problem at all
No, we don't have a cap problem at all
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 80,614
- 57,635
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 80,614
- 57,635
Considering Zajac had his 62 point year before Kovalchuk arrived in New Jersey, and Kovalchuk was in New Jersey for 27 games during his 67 point season, I don't think the Kovalchuk argument holds that much water.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Podium,
The team has spent close to the cap every year and even payed a guy like Finger/Connolly to sit in the minors.
This is the one year we haven't spent close to the cap but that has more to do with uncertainity that having no CBA caused.
Out of our high salary players moving forward Grabo is the first guy I'd want gone. JVR, Kessel, Lupul, Phaneuf all more important players to build around.
Komisarek only has 1 year left on his contract and can always be bought out so he doesn't count.
With Grabo making 5.5 and Kadri emerging as another undersized/non-body game player Grabo will probably be traded before the end of his contract so that this team can address its lack of size/physicality at the top of the forward group and the right side of our D.
I think Toronto has a choice to trade Grabo well we still has decent value or wait and take the chance that his play declines (which I'm certain it will) and have him become a cap albatross in the 2-3 years of his deal.
The team has spent close to the cap every year and even payed a guy like Finger/Connolly to sit in the minors.
This is the one year we haven't spent close to the cap but that has more to do with uncertainity that having no CBA caused.
Out of our high salary players moving forward Grabo is the first guy I'd want gone. JVR, Kessel, Lupul, Phaneuf all more important players to build around.
Komisarek only has 1 year left on his contract and can always be bought out so he doesn't count.
With Grabo making 5.5 and Kadri emerging as another undersized/non-body game player Grabo will probably be traded before the end of his contract so that this team can address its lack of size/physicality at the top of the forward group and the right side of our D.
I think Toronto has a choice to trade Grabo well we still has decent value or wait and take the chance that his play declines (which I'm certain it will) and have him become a cap albatross in the 2-3 years of his deal.
The Podium
Registered User
If we can acquire a 1st line C by dealing his salary than do it. If not there is no need too considering our abundance of cap space....You have to remember Connollys 4.5 comes off the books this season, the retained Lombardi's 1.5 million and MacArthurs 3.5 million. Thats 9.5 million in cap + the 6.5 we already have is 16 million. With our current group we have 16 million in cap space and we should sell Grabo off just because we can have more?
The cap is going down 6 IIRC but thats 12 million, actually 11 with Lupuls contract, in useless space with a full line-up and no one significant needed to be signed.....
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