Confirmed with Link: Canucks Trade W Vasily Podkolzin to Oilers for 2025 4th (OTT)

[F A N]

F A N said it, so it must be true.

I'm pretty sure Robert's post wasn't directed at me.

 

[F A N]

Hard to believe Benning ever had the rope to blow 3 of 5 top 10 picks, and trade another.

Instead of getting credit for Hughes and EP40, people should just be thankful he didn't blow or deal those picks too.

I don't see why a GM wouldn't own his entire draft record with the exception of his first year where a new GM wouldn't typically get a chance to provide instructions and guidance to his scouts and change the personnell if needed. Ultimately it's his draft record.

Podkolzin was a reasonable pick. One that they got wrong (with Boldy sitting there). I don't blame them for not picking Caulfield if they had size concerns. There was and is zero indication that Brackett favoured or pushed for Boldy, a player that one would assume Brackett would be very familiar with given his MA roots.

 

[Curm]

I don't see why a GM wouldn't own his entire draft record with the exception of his first year where a new GM wouldn't typically get a chance to provide instructions and guidance to his scouts and change the personnell if needed. Ultimately it's his draft record.

Podkolzin was a reasonable pick. One that they got wrong (with Boldy sitting there). I don't blame them for not picking Caulfield if they had size concerns. There was and is zero indication that Brackett favoured or pushed for Boldy, a player that one would assume Brackett would be very familiar with given his MA roots.

I have no idea what Brackett's role was with the pick, but Boldy seemed to be a name connected to the Canucks around that time. Maybe they liked him, maybe it was that he was forecasted to be selected near where they were picking. It was a major miss, though.

 

[ManVanFan]

2019 draft had a lot of misses. Boldy, York, Caufield, Harley, McMichael (this year), might be the only players in the first that are that much better than Podz.

I was very up for trading down and picking Harley or Pinto in the late teens early 20s

 

[tantalum]

I don't see why a GM wouldn't own his entire draft record with the exception of his first year where a new GM wouldn't typically get a chance to provide instructions and guidance to his scouts and change the personnell if needed. Ultimately it's his draft record.

In general ya you give the first year a pass as often a new GM hired at the start of the off season is forbidden from participating in that draft as a condition of the hire. Interestingly, Benning was not forbidden AND he was coming from a role where he was the guy putting together the draft stuff for the Bruins. It's a case where a GM does get to own that first draft as he was able to use his knowledge and prioritization from his previous job if he so wanted. And I think he did on the Virtanen pick.

But that's completely an aside....

 

[Jyrki21]

I have no idea what Brackett's role was with the pick, but Boldy seemed to be a name connected to the Canucks around that time. Maybe they liked him, maybe it was that he was forecasted to be selected near where they were picking. It was a major miss, though.

I think Boldy's name came up more in projections on this site (and possibly others) than from rumors of actual interest.

Podkolzin, from what I understand, was a rare Brackett miss. I think he's been reported as pushing for him.

 

[Lindgren]

I think Boldy's name came up more in projections on this site (and possibly others) than from rumors of actual interest.

Podkolzin, from what I understand, was a rare Brackett miss. I think he's been reported as pushing for him.

I was impressed by the Podkolzin pick at the time, simply because of the KHL contract he was locked into. I expected Benning to go for a player he could force into the line-up immediately.

Then the excuses for the lack of production began (from fans), and on and on ...

 

[God]

sometimes a player just doesn't work out. i don't think there were any major red flags with podz, and it's not like there were obvious choices instead of him at the time.

the year before, we had a major hit with quinn hughes because i don't think anybody expected his development curve to skyrocket like it did. and podz's didn't. whatever.

 

[VanillaCoke]

sometimes a player just doesn't work out. i don't think there were any major red flags with podz, and it's not like there were obvious choices instead of him at the time.

the year before, we had a major hit with quinn hughes because i don't think anybody expected his development curve to skyrocket like it did. and podz's didn't. whatever.

LOL there were definitely both major red flags and massively obvious better choices at the time.

He didn't work out because he was very clearly never very good, same reason he won't work out in Edmonton, khl quality player.

 

[God]

LOL there were definitely both major red flags and massively obvious better choices at the time.

He didn't work out because he was very clearly never very good, same reason he won't work out in Edmonton, khl quality player.

which were the red flags? both him and boldy were two-way wingers but podz had the size, skating, and physicality that boldy didn't have, but didn't produce as well. and for every cole caufield there are probably five zach boychuks.

i just don't think this is the massive reach that something like juolevi over tkachuk was. podz's floor was probably seen as higher than most other prospects. kakko is a similar prototype - produced insanely well in the finnish men's league as a 17 year old, was picked 2nd overall, and still got out developed by boldy. it's not an exact science.

 

[racerjoe]

which were the red flags? both him and boldy were two-way wingers but podz had the size, skating, and physicality that boldy didn't have, but didn't produce as well. and for every cole caufield there are probably five zach boychuks.

i just don't think this is the massive reach that something like juolevi over tkachuk was. podz's floor was probably seen as higher than most other prospects. kakko is a similar prototype - produced insanely well in the finnish men's league as a 17 year old, was picked 2nd overall, and still got out developed by boldy. it's not an exact science.

His production, that was his primary red flag, or at least what I always questioned.

 

[F A N]

I have no idea what Brackett's role was with the pick, but Boldy seemed to be a name connected to the Canucks around that time. Maybe they liked him, maybe it was that he was forecasted to be selected near where they were picking. It was a major miss, though.

Well Brackett was the Director of Amateur Scouting at the time. Like I said, I do think a GM's draft record is his draft record. Whether he overrules his scouts, trusts his scouts, keep or fire incompetent scouts etc. those are part of the job description.

We are of course not privy to what happened behind the scenes but there was contemporaneous reporting that the Canucks had Podkolzin as the BPA and was very much Brackett and the scouts' pick.

In general ya you give the first year a pass as often a new GM hired at the start of the off season is forbidden from participating in that draft as a condition of the hire. Interestingly, Benning was not forbidden AND he was coming from a role where he was the guy putting together the draft stuff for the Bruins. It's a case where a GM does get to own that first draft as he was able to use his knowledge and prioritization from his previous job if he so wanted. And I think he did on the Virtanen pick.

But that's completely an aside....

I'm not a Bruins' fan so I'm not sure of the role Benning played. The Bruins did fire their Director of Amateur Scouting before Benning left. I assume that Benning's role was closer to that of Clancey or Weisbrod in terms of the Bruins' draft.

As for Virtanen, some here think that the pick was pre-determined before Benning got here but I didn't come across reports supporting that. I wouldn't be surprised if the NA scouts were onboard. People talk about the Canucks liking Larkin before Gillis was fired and I believe they did but the Canucks' draft position drastically changed between the time they were looking at Larkin and at the time of the draft. IIRC, Eric Crawford was a big reason why we acquired David Booth. Gilman certainly spoke highly of Virtanen when he was first on S&P.

Certainly there was no consensus after the top 4 and Dal Cole. I think most of us are really talking about choosing between Virtanen, Nylander, Ritchie, and Ehlers. I can believe that our European scouts liked Nylander but there was uncertainty over whether he can play C and he came with a bit of a prima donna rep. It's not like we have favoured Swedes in past drafts. As for Ehlers, remember all the talk about the Canucks overrating the QMJHL and prioritizing the OHL, NCAA, WHL (and Sweden?) instead?

Regardless, Virtanen was a very reasonable pick at the time of the draft.

Podkolzin, from what I understand, was a rare Brackett miss. I think he's been reported as pushing for him.

Was it rare? Brackett wanted to trade down if Woo was not available. There were quite a few NHL defensemen drafted in that second round including Romanov who was drafted right after. If you look at our draft record under Brackett there isn't much to praise him for. The results just weren't there.

 

[Siludin]

I don't even think Podkolzin was a miss at this rate.
He's an NHLer. He's playing meaningful minutes on a cup-contender. He's also fitting the profile that everyone said he would which is that of a Jannick Hansen, valuable bang-for-buck type who serves rosters with top-heavy salaries very well. He's also likely not done improving.
There are plenty of players drafted near him that have scored more points, but by that same token a team like Edmonton could not afford a Trevor Zegras or Dylan Cozens on their current roster, and at their current performance:salary rates.

 

[Hit the post]

As for Virtanen, some here think that the pick was pre-determined before Benning got here but I didn't come across reports supporting that. I wouldn't be surprised if the NA scouts were onboard. People talk about the Canucks liking Larkin before Gillis was fired and I believe they did but the Canucks' draft position drastically changed between the time they were looking at Larkin and at the time of the draft. IIRC, Eric Crawford was a big reason why we acquired David Booth. Gilman certainly spoke highly of Virtanen when he was first on S&P.

In fairness to Jim Benning, the Canucks Canadian amateur scouts have sucked sh*t since....maybe going back as far as the Pat Quinn days. Virtanen wasn't the only blown pick (OJ was another blown fairly high 1st round pick. Both guys largely drafted as a result of them playing in the Canadian junior leagues. Not sure what the issue is/was for multiple decades. Various GM's didn't seem to "fix" it.


I mean, it can't be *all* Ron Delorme's fault. Course, he does seem to be the one constant.

 

[RobertKron]

I don't even think Podkolzin was a miss at this rate.
He's an NHLer. He's playing meaningful minutes on a cup-contender. He's also fitting the profile that everyone said he would which is that of a Jannick Hansen, valuable bang-for-buck type who serves rosters with top-heavy salaries very well. He's also likely not done improving.
There are plenty of players drafted near him that have scored more points, but by that same token a team like Edmonton could not afford a Trevor Zegras or Dylan Cozens on their current roster, and at their current performance:salary rates.

This is a very weird argument in favour of a player being worth the 10OA selection.

 

[iRageWin]

I don't even think Podkolzin was a miss at this rate.
He's an NHLer. He's playing meaningful minutes on a cup-contender. He's also fitting the profile that everyone said he would which is that of a Jannick Hansen, valuable bang-for-buck type who serves rosters with top-heavy salaries very well. He's also likely not done improving.
There are plenty of players drafted near him that have scored more points, but by that same token a team like Edmonton could not afford a Trevor Zegras or Dylan Cozens on their current roster, and at their current performance:salary rates.

Yea, this is a bad take. Podkolzin is definitely a bust compared to where he was drafted -- trading the pick straight up would surely have yielded at least a comparable player to contribute immediately, with a chance that you end up with a better player, all without having to wait for the development time Podkolzin has taken to get here.

Podkolzin has ended up in that tier of near-replacement-level utility role, and at that skill level, being just bad enough/unscouted enough to pass through waivers actually increases their value compared to players like Podkolzin that may be marginally better but are unable to be sent down without risk due to draft pedigree/name value. If he can establish himself at a Suter/Sherwood level of utility we lost the trade, but if he can't, we at least got something. I think there's a good chance we would have sent him down and lost him on waivers anyways.

 

[RobertKron]

Obviously he's a year older and they're very different players, but how much of a drop-off in general usefulness do you think the Oilers would see if they stuck Max Sasson in that deployment instead?

 

[ExarKun80]

I remember the hype for this dude and he turned out to be a poor man's version of Zack Kassian. He can't even make a name for himself despite the fact that he is playing with prime german Gretzky.

 

[Curm]

Well Brackett was the Director of Amateur Scouting at the time. Like I said, I do think a GM's draft record is his draft record. Whether he overrules his scouts, trusts his scouts, keep or fire incompetent scouts etc. those are part of the job description.

We are of course not privy to what happened behind the scenes but there was contemporaneous reporting that the Canucks had Podkolzin as the BPA and was very much Brackett and the scouts' pick.

Yes, at the end of the day, that's the case or should be. I don't recall seeing the reporting specific to Brackett and the scouts being high on Podkolzin, not surprising though, but to your point on Woo, I do recall seeing the clip they put out on the potential trading down of the pick and Woo being Brackett's guy.

I think Boldy's name came up more in projections on this site (and possibly others) than from rumors of actual interest.

Podkolzin, from what I understand, was a rare Brackett miss. I think he's been reported as pushing for him.

I'm sure you're right, I mostly recall seeing a few articles and mock drafts linking them by where the Canucks were selecting, and he was predicted to go in the draft.

 

[Siludin]

This is a very weird argument in favour of a player being worth the 10OA selection.

You're right he could have been Soderblom or Turcotte instead.

Yea, this is a bad take. Podkolzin is definitely a bust compared to where he was drafted -- trading the pick straight up would surely have yielded at least a comparable player to contribute immediately, with a chance that you end up with a better player, all without having to wait for the development time Podkolzin has taken to get here.

Podkolzin has ended up in that tier of near-replacement-level utility role, and at that skill level, being just bad enough/unscouted enough to pass through waivers actually increases their value compared to players like Podkolzin that may be marginally better but are unable to be sent down without risk due to draft pedigree/name value. If he can establish himself at a Suter/Sherwood level of utility we lost the trade, but if he can't, we at least got something. I think there's a good chance we would have sent him down and lost him on waivers anyways.

This is a cope imo and I'm a Vancouver fan.
Podkolzin and Arvidsson are being deployed perfectly with Drai, shoring up the wing position. Draisaitl appears to be fine with this arrangement - it allows him to pretty much do whatever he wants at 5:5, as the line is reliable at both end. Edmonton coaches are likely very happy with how that's going and that's why they have been kept together - Podkolzin needs to be playing with an active centre he can support.
Also, Podkolzin has been productive recently.

 

[F A N]

In fairness to Jim Benning, the Canucks Canadian amateur scouts have sucked sh*t since....maybe going back as far as the Pat Quinn days. Virtanen wasn't the only blown pick (OJ was another blown fairly high 1st round pick. Both guys largely drafted as a result of them playing in the Canadian junior leagues. Not sure what the issue is/was for multiple decades. Various GM's didn't seem to "fix" it.


I mean, it can't be *all* Ron Delorme's fault. Course, he does seem to be the one constant.

Our WHL scouting has been bad and we've largely stayed out of drafting from the WHL which is the weirdest thing ever. For many years our top scouts (Delorme and Gradin) have been based out west.