Confirmed with Link: Canucks trade Dickinson & 2nd (2024) to Chicago for Riley Stillman

[shottasasa]

The most obvious strategy would be to do what Zona, habs, and hawks are doing but we never seem to get logical management unfortunately.

We are definitely not where Ottawa and the rags are where I would endorse going for it. Even the devils and kings I would support.

We are literally worse shape than Dallas , jets, and Nashville the mushy middle teams. Should have definitely taken a step back and traded all three of Boeser, Horvat, and miller. Too late now.

Tue big problem with taking a step back is that the return on trading Boeser, Horvat, and Miller in this summer’s market would have been pretty underwhelming and it may have only included one or two blue chip picks or young players. It would essentially be like selling premium assets for cents on the dollar and I’m not sure that’s going to be all that helpful. I definitely on team Trade Miller, and I believe management genuinely tried to get a worthwhile return. So the fact that they pulled the plug on that strategy and signed him instead was very instructive.

 

[Bubbles]

Tue big problem with taking a step back is that the return on trading Boeser, Horvat, and Miller in this summer’s market would have been pretty underwhelming and it may have only included one or two blue chip picks or young players. It would essentially be like selling premium assets for cents on the dollar and I’m not sure that’s going to be all that helpful. I definitely on team Trade Miller, and I believe management genuinely tried to get a worthwhile return. So the fact that they pulled the plug on that strategy and signed him instead was very instructive.

I'm not getting this narrative that management had a "strategy" to trade away assets this summer. That decision was decided at the last trade deadline, when they suddenly took Miller off the market. It was at that time they decided to go "all in". So blaming the market for "poor returns" is really irrelevant if they had no intention of trading Boeser, Horvat or Miller.

 

[Hit the post]

Tue big problem with taking a step back is that the return on trading Boeser, Horvat, and Miller in this summer’s market would have been pretty underwhelming and it may have only included one or two blue chip picks or young players. It would essentially be like selling premium assets for cents on the dollar and I’m not sure that’s going to be all that helpful. I definitely on team Trade Miller, and I believe management genuinely tried to get a worthwhile return. So the fact that they pulled the plug on that strategy and signed him instead was very instructive.

I seriously doubt the return on Boeser would be even that significant (eg., one blue chip pick/prospect) given the huge contract he just signed by the new management team.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

One of Bennings better moves. Only midrange negative value. Love ya miss ya Jim.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Tue big problem with taking a step back is that the return on trading Boeser, Horvat, and Miller in this summer’s market would have been pretty underwhelming and it may have only included one or two blue chip picks or young players. It would essentially be like selling premium assets for cents on the dollar and I’m not sure that’s going to be all that helpful. I definitely on team Trade Miller, and I believe management genuinely tried to get a worthwhile return. So the fact that they pulled the plug on that strategy and signed him instead was very instructive.

As long as all three were on a scaling Fiala return level(scaling as in Boeser probably slightly less but Horvat and miller more) or better it’s definitely worth it still.

Miller and oel is going to be much worse than Seguin and Benn, might even be as bad as Suter and Parise. Suter and Parise might have cost the Wild a cup too.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

The most obvious strategy would be to do what Zona, habs, and hawks are doing but we never seem to get logical management unfortunately.

We are definitely not where Ottawa and the rags are where I would endorse going for it. Even the devils and kings I would support.

We are literally worse shape than Dallas , jets, and Nashville the mushy middle teams. Should have definitely taken a step back and traded all three of Boeser, Horvat, and miller. Too late now.

Thats worked out very well for Buffalo & Arizona. The tanking strategy doesn't work like it once did.

The Canucks already got the best & 2nd best player in a few drafts anyways, which would be the whole point of your strategy. And we would never win the lottery in a Bedard/McDavid/Matthews type year.

I don't think the team is in as bad a position as you.

 

[SurferBroChad]

As long as all three were on a scaling Fiala return level(scaling as in Boeser probably slightly less but Horvat and miller more) or better it’s definitely worth it still.

Miller and oel is going to be much worse than Seguin and Benn, might even be as bad as Suter and Parise. Suter and Parise might have cost the Wild a cup too.

​

 

[Bubbles]

Thats worked out very well for Buffalo & Arizona. The tanking strategy doesn't work like it once did.

The Canucks already got the best & 2nd best player in a few drafts anyways, which would be the whole point of your strategy. And we would never win the lottery in a Bedard/McDavid/Matthews type year.

I don't think the team is in as bad a position as you.

Of course you don't mention the teams that it worked for. Tampa, Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago. Arizona and Buffalo also have the worst combination of crappy management/owners.

Which drafts are you talking about exactly?

 

[rypper]

Trade Horvat, Miller, Boeser, and the team is bad again for another 5+ years. Pettersson walks in FA. Hughes sticks it out for a bit but eventually wants a trade. Demko too.

But man did we ever amass some first round picks. Won the Stanley cup of collecting first round picks.

Of course you don't mention the teams that it worked for. Tampa, Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago.

Those all happened like 10+ years ago. The league has changed. The only recent team to tank and come out better I can think of is Toronto and they haven't won shit besides the Auston Matthews sweepstakes.

 

[Bubbles]

Those all happened like 10+ years ago. The league has changed. The only recent team to tank and come out better I can think of is Toronto and they haven't won shit besides the Auston Matthews sweepstakes.

Tanks take time. It's been 6 years since Matthews, and that was the end of their tank. They've been in the playoffs consistently as contenders, they just choke all the time.

In the meantime, we're talking about a team here in Vancouver who have made the playoffs once because of COVID.

Ottawa are just coming out of their tank and it will be a few years before they are contenders. Montreal is in their middle of their tank.

Even Edmonton have kind of figured it out now.

Tanks work. The point of having in Vancouver is moot, I get that. But tanks have worked across the NHL.

 

[andora]

Tanks take time. It's been 6 years since Matthews, and that was the end of their tank. They've been in the playoffs consistently as contenders, they just choke all the time.

In the meantime, we're talking about a team here in Vancouver who have made the playoffs once because of COVID.

Ottawa are just coming out of their tank and it will be a few years before they are contenders. Montreal is in their middle of their tank.

Even Edmonton have kind of figured it out now.

Tanks work. The point of having in Vancouver is moot, I get that. But tanks have worked across the NHL.

They work and they dont work.. point is to get good players

We have good players and some young ones on top of it

 

[Hit the post]

Thats worked out very well for Buffalo & Arizona. The tanking strategy doesn't work like it once did.

The Canucks already got the best & 2nd best player in a few drafts anyways, which would be the whole point of your strategy. And we would never win the lottery in a Bedard/McDavid/Matthews type year.

I don't think the team is in as bad a position as you.

Problem is, neither of those teams spent money (though I guess for a brief period the Sabres did). In the case of the Yotes, they seek to spend up to the cap floor (and not much more).

 

[MarkMM]

I'm not getting this narrative that management had a "strategy" to trade away assets this summer. That decision was decided at the last trade deadline, when they suddenly took Miller off the market. It was at that time they decided to go "all in". So blaming the market for "poor returns" is really irrelevant if they had no intention of trading Boeser, Horvat or Miller.

That's one interpretation, but the sense I had was more that the returns for Miller were underwhelming at the trade deadline so they gambled the market would be better in the offseason when more teams theoretically could make cap space flexible. As we saw, that was a gamble that didn't turn out, so at that point it seems they decided to hold on to Miller rather than trade him for pittances or lose him for nothing.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Thats worked out very well for Buffalo & Arizona. The tanking strategy doesn't work like it once did.

The Canucks already got the best & 2nd best player in a few drafts anyways, which would be the whole point of your strategy. And we would never win the lottery in a Bedard/McDavid/Matthews type year.

I don't think the team is in as bad a position as you.

worked wonders for Tampa and Colorado and 99% of the cup winners.

 

[Tomatoes11]

​

Wild couldn’t build on their young team that did quite well last year and was very dangerous and had to take a step back and lose fiala(only 25) thanks to Parise and Suter. At the very least, they had a much better chance at building a contender than us and Edmonton. That’s all thanks to two bad contracts. Which were more logical at the time they were signed than miller and oel are.

Not sure why you are giving me that face. It’s a fact.

Trade Horvat, Miller, Boeser, and the team is bad again for another 5+ years. Pettersson walks in FA. Hughes sticks it out for a bit but eventually wants a trade. Demko too.

But man did we ever amass some first round picks. Won the Stanley cup of collecting first round picks.



Those all happened like 10+ years ago. The league has changed. The only recent team to tank and come out better I can think of is Toronto and they haven't won shit besides the Auston Matthews sweepstakes.

Lol no one is walking if we take a step back. When was the last time someone walked because the team didn’t go all in? Never. Eichel walked because his health, had nothing to do with the play of Buffalo.

 

[rypper]

Wild couldn’t build on their young team that did quite well last year and was very dangerous and had to take a step back and lose fiala(only 25) thanks to Parise and Suter. At the very least, they had a much better chance at building a contender than us and Edmonton. That’s all thanks to two bad contracts. Which were more logical at the time they were signed than miller and oel are.

Not sure why you are giving me that face. It’s a fact.



Lol no one is walking if we take a step back. When was the last time someone walked because the team didn’t go all in? Never. Eichel walked because his health, haD nothing to do with the play of Buffalo.

If you're trading Horvat, Miller, and Boeser you're not just taking a step back. You're tanking, or at least a half assed attempt at tanking.

You're out to lunch if you don't think Pettersson is gone in free agency if the team tanks for the next 2-3 years.

 

[Tomatoes11]

If you're trading Horvat, Miller, and Boeser you're not just taking a step back. You're tanking, or at least a half assed attempt at tanking.

You're out to lunch if you don't think Pettersson is gone in free agency if the team tanks for the next 2-3 years.

No one leaves. Jack Hughes, Suzuki, caulfield, power, dahlin , mcmuffin, drai, brady tkachuk etc no one leaves because their team is bad. It’s even hard for vets like Giroux, Kane, and toews to leave. That’s just how it is, I don‘t have to be out to lunch to see how things work in the NHL lol.

In fact, the last 3 players to leave, tkachuk, gaudreau, Dubois were on teams that went all in And weren’t tanking at all. Teams much better than us. If EP bounces, he is bouncing regardless of if we tank or not.

And who says we are tanking for the next 2-3 years? Lol we have so many forwards and would get a massive return for all three and would have a ton of cap space. It would be a 1 year thing like Colorado when they got makar or the laffs when they got matthews.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Of course you don't mention the teams that it worked for. Tampa, Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago. Arizona and Buffalo also have the worst combination of crappy management/owners.

Which drafts are you talking about exactly?

worked wonders for Tampa and Colorado and 99% of the cup winners.

Tanks take time. It's been 6 years since Matthews, and that was the end of their tank. They've been in the playoffs consistently as contenders, they just choke all the time.

In the meantime, we're talking about a team here in Vancouver who have made the playoffs once because of COVID.

Ottawa are just coming out of their tank and it will be a few years before they are contenders. Montreal is in their middle of their tank.

Even Edmonton have kind of figured it out now.

Tanks work. The point of having in Vancouver is moot, I get that. But tanks have worked across the NHL.

Hughes & Pettersson.

LA finished bottom 5 for 3 years, it got them Hickey, Doughty & Schenn. How is that a great example? Kopitar & Quick weren't lottery picks.

Ottawa may not turn into a contender with the guys they are projecting. DeBrincat isn't signed, Chabot is as old as Boeser, Stutzle has to take steps, they don't have a goalie, exc.

EDM was still floundering after 3 first overall picks until they lucked into a top 5 player of all time. I don't see that available to us.

Tampa drafted 1st overall in 2008, won in 2020. If rebuilds take time then we can't tout Tampa as an example of why we should blow it up right now when Hughes wasnt even drafted 5 years ago.

We have a young #1C, young #1D, and young #1G all whom have just entered their prime. Getting those pieces is the reason you tank in the first place. Ottawa doesn't have all 3, Montreal doesn't have all 3, Edmonton doesn't have all 3. No guarantee we would get it again by blowing this up.

Edit: and If you think we can spend the next 4-5 years walking through the desert & expect Hughes to re-sign, good luck.

Problem is, neither of those teams spent money (though I guess for a brief period the Sabres did). In the case of the Yotes, they seek to spend up to the cap floor (and not much more).

Buffalo definitely spent money, Arizona also spent money & tried to take a step bringing in Hall/Hjalmarsson/Schmaltz/Stepan/Goligoski/exc.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Hughes & Pettersson.

LA finished bottom 5 for 3 years, it got them Hickey, Doughty & Schenn. How is that a great example? Kopitar & Quick weren't lottery picks.

Ottawa may not turn into a contender with the guys they are projecting. DeBrincat isn't signed, Chabot is as old as Boeser, Stutzle has to take steps, they don't have a goalie, exc.

EDM was still floundering after 3 first overall picks until they lucked into a top 5 player of all time. I don't see that available to us.

Tampa drafted 1st overall in 2008, won in 2020. If rebuilds take time then we can't tout Tampa as an example of why we should blow it up right now when Hughes wasn't even drafted 5 years ago.

We have a young #1C, young #1D, and young #1G all whom have just entered their prime. Getting those pieces is the reason you tank in the first place. Ottawa doesn't have all 3, Montreal doesn't have all 3, Edmonton doesn't have all 3. No guarantee we would get it again by blowing this up.

Edit: and If you think we can spend the next 4-5 years walking through the desert & expect Hughes to re-sign, good luck.



Buffalo definitely spent money, Arizona also spent money & tried to take a step bringing in Hall/Hjalmarsson/Schmaltz/Stepan/Goligoski/exc.

You are aware that you get first dibs in later rounds too right? And you are also aware that cap space is king right now right? And you are aware that this draft is ridiculously strong right? And you are aware that we wouldn’t be trading EP, Hughes, or Demko right? And you are aware that 6.65 for Boeser isn‘t worth more than a prospect and 1st round pick right? Especially when we have Garland, Kuzmenko, mikayev, podz, hogz etc already. And you are aware miller for 8 million is going to be horribly bad later right? And you are aware Horvat isn’t worth 7.7 right?

oh and i disagree with most of what you said about LA, Ottawa, Edmonton, and Tampa . But none of that matters because of the things above. Its a no brainer that we should take a step back even before we do a case study comparison with other teams.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Well I see the Canucks were cap compliant. To the $. Exactly 0.

 

[rypper]

No one leaves. Jack Hughes, Suzuki, caulfield, power, dahlin , mcmuffin, drai, brady tkachuk etc no one leaves because their team is bad. It’s even hard for vets like Giroux, Kane, and toews to leave. That’s just how it is, I don‘t have to be out to lunch to see how things work in the NHL lol.

None of those players hit free agency. None of them had a real opportunity to leave, unless they forced a trade.

Toews is essentially untradeable. Giroux left when he wanted to, and so will Kane if he wants to.

Pettersson will be on a the cusp of free agency and there's an easy path to walk if he doesn't like the look of things. Unlike the first group you mentioned the team signed him to a short term deal after his first contract, leaving him more opportunity to move. You remember his quote from the summer don't you?

And who says we are tanking for the next 2-3 years? Lol we have so many forwards and would get a massive return for all three and would have a ton of cap space. It would be a 1 year thing like Colorado when they got makar or the laffs when they got matthews.

Show me a team that trades two top 6 centers and a top six winger and doesn't take a huge hit in the standings. It's completely unrealistic. After 8 years of losing the team was never going to pile on 2-3 more. The time to rebuild was 7+ years ago.

 

[Tomatoes11]

None of those players hit free agency. None of them had a real opportunity to leave, unless they forced a trade.

Toews is essentially untradeable. Giroux left when he wanted to, and so will Kane if he wants to.

Pettersson will be on a the cusp of free agency and there's an easy path to walk if he doesn't like the look of things. Unlike the first group you mentioned the team signed him to a short term deal after his first contract, leaving him more opportunity to move. You remember his quote from the summer don't you?



Show me a team that trades two top 6 centers and a top six winger and doesn't take a huge hit in the standings. It's completely unrealistic. After 8 years of losing the team was never going to pile on 2-3 more.

I am not taking we wouldn’t take a huge hit in the standings. I am just saying it’s fine and exactly what we should be doing rather than going all in. None are core CORE as in ep, Hughes, and demko. They are significant pieces but hardly essential. Especially considering we are at best 3 years away from contending. Not worth committing to them right now.

And no, I am not in the slightest bit worried about EP leaving if we take a step back for one season, despite what he said to the media. It just doesn’t happen. I don’t recall anyone ever leaving because the team is bad and our situation with Petterssen can’t be the first time in NHL history a player has said that to the media. Find me an example of a player actually leaving after speaking like that to the media and I’ll reconsider my stance.

 

[racerjoe]

I am not taking we wouldn’t take a huge hit in the standings. I am just saying it’s fine and exactly what we should be doing rather than going all in. None are core CORE as in ep, Hughes, and demko. They are significant pieces but hardly essential. Especially considering we are at best 3 years away from contending. Not worth committing to them right now.

And no, I am not in the slightest bit worried about EP leaving if we take a step back for one season, despite what he said to the media. It just doesn’t happen. I don’t recall anyone ever leaving because the team is bad and our situation with Petterssen can’t be the first time in NHL history a player has said that to the media. Find me an example of a player actually leaving after speaking like that to the media and I’ll reconsider my stance.

You are talking about taking a step back for way more than one season... and a huge step back too.

 

[credulous]

i think pettersson probably leaves regardless of how vancouver performs as a team. he just seems utterly uninterested in staying here. maybe if they extend him a megacontract next summer he sticks around?

 

[wonton15]

Thinking Pettersson and Hughes won't walk if we completely rebuild is incredibly wishful and pretty stupid to think honestly