Confirmed with Link: Canucks Sign Pius Suter - 2-years @ $1.6M AAV

[VanJack]

Suter obviously took a major haircut in his salary to sign in Vancouver.....but was clearly one of the most interest player left on the UFA Board.

The only thing you might quibble with is his size......listed on Hockey DB at 5'11", 174. Canucks have a lot of average to below average sized forwards in the lineup. They can still use more size up front.

Would still like to see them bring in a couple of guys like maybe Nick Ritchie or Maxime Comtois on PTO's if they're still available on Sept. 1st.

 

[biturbo19]

So Jason Dickinson

Dickinson didn't work out in Vancouver for some reason, and didn't have much to offer in the way off offensive juice. But nah...Pius Suter is a much more "nothing" player overall. Dickinson was at least big, fast, and should've been useful in a defensive/shutdown role.

Suter has a little bit more in the way of "offensive facilitator" ability. If he has a winger on his line who can drive play, he'll pick up a few points just by...being there. But he's truly underwhelming in pretty much everything. He's not fast, kind of small, fairly soft, he's not super creative or a naturally talented goal-scorer, he's not great defensively or offensively. He also just happens to only be a little bit below average in everything, so it balances out to a filler player who can give you some minutes, if you support him with surrounding cast that is better than him at particular things.


Very different sort of player than Dickinson though.

 

[Breakers]

but he’s a fine stop gap and depth for now.

I feel like we've been in a stop gap for 8 years and counting for various bottom 6 roles

 

[Fatass]

I feel like we've been in a stop gap for 8 years and counting for various bottom 6 roles

Benning’s replacement (stop gap) players are signed for 4 years and over 3 mil per. We have competent management agsin, as evidenced by this signing and do many other smart moves. If it all works, that we don’t know. But with signings like this we know management is doing things the right way.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Benning’s replacement (stop gap) players are signed for 4 years and over 3 mil per. We have competent management agsin, as evidenced by this signing and do many other smart moves. If it all works, that we don’t know. But with signings like this we know management is doing things the right way.

While Benning’s bottom 6 contracts were by and large horrific the flat cap has played a huge role in why this current management group has been able to sign these reasonable deals.

 

[petterdaddy]

While Benning’s bottom 6 contracts were by and large horrific the flat cap has played a huge role in why this current management group has been able to sign these reasonable deals.

True but the pro scouting in general is just loads better. There’s at least a pattern with Allvin and Company nailing their low cost acquisitions (trade or money). Benning’s pro scouting was a list of players both he and Weisbrod liked from the 09-12 drafts.

 

[RobertKron]

I swear you make up terms and then justify it in your own mind and then expect others to understand and agree with you. If 1C means 1st line centre and 4C means 4th line C and 1C>4C, logically when someone says 5C one thinks of a guy who is often a healthy scratch or an emergency C. It's not sort of crazy concept.

In any case, I think Suter is a capable C and has spent time playing as C. He's clearly a legitimate 3-4C if utilized that way. Whether Suter is better suited as a winger is irrelevant. JT Miller isn't a 3-5C because he's ideally suited to be a winger. He's legitimately a top 2 C if utilized that way.

None of this is a comment about Suter in particular because I don't know the player well enough to have any type of specific opinion about him, but:

I think the term "5C" is pretty wobbly and not well chosen, but I don't think the concept is weird and is certainly pretty relevant here - especially when you're dealing with the 3/4 line divide. It's not an unlikely scenario to have a winger on your 3rd line that you'd prefer to move to the middle in a pinch rather than bump your 8 minute a game run-around 4C into those minutes even if you'd prefer to otherwise not have that player play centre, because the gap between a 3C and 4C can be really very huge depending on deployment. That differs from a player that is legitimately capable of playing that role, but has been pushed to the wing because you have other better options or they're even better over there or whatever it may be.

You and MS clearly disagree on which of those Suter is, and I'm not sure why you're scuffling about the general concept rather than the particular player.

This is also getting into the territory of being kind of the same conversation that was had around Dickinson where people anointed him a real good 3C because he was a 3rd liner who had also played in the middle even though there's obviously more to it than that. Again, not making a comment about Suter in particular, but just that the concept shouldn't really be foreign.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I think this board overrates Suter based on his JFresh card and I think he's more of a wing/5C who can play 3C minutes in a pinch (which was basically how he was used last year in Detroit).

But he's also very serviceable utility depth who can PK and he's good value at that price. Good signing.

Or people just disagree with you.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Dickinson didn't work out in Vancouver for some reason, and didn't have much to offer in the way off offensive juice. But nah...Pius Suter is a much more "nothing" player overall. Dickinson was at least big, fast, and should've been useful in a defensive/shutdown role.

Suter has a little bit more in the way of "offensive facilitator" ability. If he has a winger on his line who can drive play, he'll pick up a few points just by...being there. But he's truly underwhelming in pretty much everything. He's not fast, kind of small, fairly soft, he's not super creative or a naturally talented goal-scorer, he's not great defensively or offensively. He also just happens to only be a little bit below average in everything, so it balances out to a filler player who can give you some minutes, if you support him with surrounding cast that is better than him at particular things.


Very different sort of player than Dickinson though.

Suter is a much better player than Dickinson IMO.

 

[arttk]

I think this is a useless signing. The guy brings zero physicallity, and Tocchet wants hitters. This is just more of the same with Cap management, and the owner trying to drum up season ticket sales.

I think you are misunderstanding what tocchet wants

 

[Fatass]

Suter is a much better player than Dickinson IMO.

Yup. And he didn’t cost us a draft pick to acquire and we didn’t extend him with a big overpay contract.

I think you are misunderstanding what tocchet wants

Yup. Tocchet wants guys who will play the right way, and do what it takes to win.

 

[arttk]

Dickinson didn't work out in Vancouver for some reason, and didn't have much to offer in the way off offensive juice. But nah...Pius Suter is a much more "nothing" player overall. Dickinson was at least big, fast, and should've been useful in a defensive/shutdown role.

Suter has a little bit more in the way of "offensive facilitator" ability. If he has a winger on his line who can drive play, he'll pick up a few points just by...being there. But he's truly underwhelming in pretty much everything. He's not fast, kind of small, fairly soft, he's not super creative or a naturally talented goal-scorer, he's not great defensively or offensively. He also just happens to only be a little bit below average in everything, so it balances out to a filler player who can give you some minutes, if you support him with surrounding cast that is better than him at particular things.


Very different sort of player than Dickinson though.

Well Suter can score more. 14,15,14 in the last 3 season. Dickinson’s high is like 9?

 

[Fraser28]

I'd wager it’s garland. I have a family member that plays with him in the off-season. Pretty much told me Garland complains about Vancouver all the time lol

Complains about what?

 

[ohnoeszz]

I like this move because I like having extra centers. You can argue over how good of a player Suter is but he can play the position.

He makes good reads. He supports his teammates and the play. He actively crashes the net/crease/slot with a stick ready to shoot. He's fairly established as passable on the faceoff dot 46.7% career average lowered by his rookie season and a peak season of 49.3% on over 1,000 faceoffs.

The lineup versatility is nice:

Kuzmenko-Pettersson-Mikeyhev
Pod/Hog-Miller-Boeser
Garland-Suter-Beauvillier
Aman-Blueger-Joshua

OR

Kuzmenko-Pettersson-Beauvillier
Pod/Hog-Miller-Boeser
Suter-Blueger-Mikehyev
Garland-Aman-Joshua

To me that offers some very different matchups with all the same players.

 

[biturbo19]

Suter is a much better player than Dickinson IMO.

I don't know that he actually is. It's more a matter of...he's a very different player. They're both bottom-6 utility guys, but very different types. Who is "better" probably just depends on what sort of role you want out of them.

If i want a checking line winger, it's Dickinson very easily. If i want a filler/stopgap Center for a more offensive-oriented line, it's Suter. If i want a low event, forechecking sort of #4C, it's Dickinson again.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Not sure where this whole talk about Suter not being a good 3C is coming from.

His defensive metrics are above average, solid PK’er, he is a consistent 15 goal scorer, about average on the dot, and has the versatility to play up and down the line up at pretty much any position. Demko is going to appreciate him a lot.

For me, the thing I like about this signing is that it shows a clear directive of what management is trying to accomplish.

 

[RobsonStreet]

I don't know that he actually is. It's more a matter of...he's a very different player. They're both bottom-6 utility guys, but very different types. Who is "better" probably just depends on what sort of role you want out of them.

If i want a checking line winger, it's Dickinson very easily. If i want a filler/stopgap Center for a more offensive-oriented line, it's Suter. If i want a low event, forechecking sort of #4C, it's Dickinson again.

I also like this comparison because Suter has put up surprisingly decent results in his last three seasons without having any real standout skills. Dickinson has qualities that should translate but hasn’t put them together in a way that’s made a positive difference on the ice (at least not since his time in Dallas).

It’ll be interesting to see what happens.

 

[HairyKneel]

While Benning’s bottom 6 contracts were by and large horrific the flat cap has played a huge role in why this current management group has been able to sign these reasonable deals.

Care to quantify that? Maybe this administration isn’t as dumb as the last one. What a novel thought…. I know.

But you do you. Shout at traffic and clouds and never… ever embrace a &$@% hair of positivity.

I don't know that he actually is. It's more a matter of...he's a very different player. They're both bottom-6 utility guys, but very different types. Who is "better" probably just depends on what sort of role you want out of them.

If i want a checking line winger, it's Dickinson very easily. If i want a filler/stopgap Center for a more offensive-oriented line, it's Suter. If i want a low event, forechecking sort of #4C, it's Dickinson again.

Dickinson stinks. And he has a higher cap hit.

 

[biturbo19]

Dickinson stinks. And he has a higher cap hit.

Sure, his higher cap hit is why Dickinson is no longer a Canuck. But he gets too much hate for that, which doesn't really impact what he is as a player who doesn't really stink. Everywhere other than Vancouver, he's been a reasonably solid ~30pt pace two-way bottom-6 winger/utility player with size and speed.


People are just clouded by him getting overpaid as a #3C and being a dud in that role here. They let it turn into hyperbole about how much he "stinks" as a player as a whole.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I feel like we've been in a stop gap for 8 years and counting for various bottom 6 roles

I think the reality of the salary cap is that you’re likely going to have several “stop gap” pieces in your bottom 6, issue for the Canucks is that they really haven’t had a legitimate, shutdown 3rd line center since Malhotra and that is easily the most important piece in your bottom 6.

 

[rypper]

Complains about what?

Probably nothing.

He did an interview where he mentioned something like it took some getting used to walking his dogs in the city, how he might look to move out to somewhere less city like and some parts of the fanbase took it as "he hates Vancouver."

 

[arttk]

Sure, his higher cap hit is why Dickinson is no longer a Canuck. But he gets too much hate for that, which doesn't really impact what he is as a player who doesn't really stink. Everywhere other than Vancouver, he's been a reasonably solid ~30pt pace two-way bottom-6 winger/utility player with size and speed.


People are just clouded by him getting overpaid as a #3C and being a dud in that role here. They let it turn into hyperbole about how much he "stinks" as a player as a whole.

Why we think of him is based on his time with us. He was just shit with us. Center who could not play center and a defensive winger that sucked at D and PK. The cap hit and expectation doesn’t help but even at 1M people, he would still be ass.

 

[Rydgar]

I like this move because I like having extra centers. You can argue over how good of a player Suter is but he can play the position.

He makes good reads. He supports his teammates and the play. He actively crashes the net/crease/slot with a stick ready to shoot. He's fairly established as passable on the faceoff dot 46.7% career average lowered by his rookie season and a peak season of 49.3% on over 1,000 faceoffs.

The lineup versatility is nice:

Kuzmenko-Pettersson-Mikeyhev
Pod/Hog-Miller-Boeser
Garland-Suter-Beauvillier
Aman-Blueger-Joshua

OR

Kuzmenko-Pettersson-Beauvillier
Pod/Hog-Miller-Boeser
Suter-Blueger-Mikehyev
Garland-Aman-Joshua

To me that offers some very different matchups with all the same players.

I like the bolded lineup.

I think this would work well too:

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Beauviller

Garland - Miller - Boeser

Mikheyev - Suter - Hoglander

Aman - Blueger - Joshua

PDG



Hughes - Cole

Soucy - Hronek

Irwin - Myers

Rathbone , Woo



I'm setting up the lines to try and generate the most trade value out of our tradeable players such as Beauviller, Garland, and Boeser. It also is considering keeping players on the roster who are no longer waiver exempt and likely to be picked up (Hoglander, Rathbone, Woo).

Podkolzin goes to AHL to develop, he will be a full-time NHLer next season when he is waiver exempt. Hirose may already be better Rathbone but he is waiver exempt.

Kuzmenko-Pettersson had great chemistry and Garland had probably the best chemistry with Miller last year so those pairings stay together. Suter and Mikheyev are both great PKers and I'd like them forming the core around a defensive third line.

I didn't want to put two small wingers on the same line so Hoglander ended up on the third with Garland on the second. It would be good for Hoglander to develop his PK abilities and defensive game if he plays with Mikheyev and. Suter and learns from them.

 

[arttk]

I think the reality of the salary cap is that you’re likely going to have several “stop gap” pieces in your bottom 6, issue for the Canucks is that they really haven’t had a legitimate, shutdown 3rd line center since Malhotra and that is easily the most important piece in your bottom 6.

Having stop gaps now is the reality of needing time to unwind Benning’s mess. Just too many moveavble shit contracts and too little assets. We have only so little trade assets and management used it to get Hronek.

I think the long term solution to the 3C is Raty and let’s hope our Olympic skating coach can fix his skating so he’s at least an average skater. Pretty sure he’ll be a really good 3C if she can fix that.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

While Benning’s bottom 6 contracts were by and large horrific the flat cap has played a huge role in why this current management group has been able to sign these reasonable deals.

And kept us from moving others.