Canucks quietly have the deepest forward group in the league

[cowboy82nd]

The odds that the Canucks are a top 5 team in scoring this year are fairly good. Pettersson played at a 106 point pace for the last 30 games of the season, and I think he will carry that over. Podkolzin is going to be a beast for this team. Add in Mykheyev, who despite having 2 linemates with no offensive ability, and 3rd line minutes, still scored 21 goals. Kuzmenko projects to be at least a 20 goal scorer. So there is a lot of firepower on this team. The Canucks are deep enough that our 3rd line would have 31 goal scorer Horvat at C, and Garland on his wing. That's a very good 3rd line.

So, you think that the Canucks are going to go from 18 overall (last year) to 5th (this year)? That's a big jump.

k		AvAge	GP	W	L	OL	PTS	PTS%	GF ▼	GA	SOW	SOL	SRS	SOS	GF/G	GA/G	PP	PPO	PP%	PPA	PPOA	PK%	SH	SHA	PIM/G	oPIM/G	S	S%	SA	SV%	SO
1	Florida Panthers*	27.8	82	58	18	6	122	.744	337	242	3	4	1.07	-0.08	4.11	2.95	64	262	24.43	53	259	79.54	12	8	10.1	10.8	3062	11.0	2515	.904	5
2	Toronto Maple Leafs*	28.4	82	54	21	7	115	.701	312	252	3	1	0.69	-0.06	3.80	3.07	63	231	27.27	42	234	82.05	13	4	8.6	8.5	2835	11.0	2511	.900	7
3	St. Louis Blues*	28.8	82	49	22	11	109	.665	309	239	2	3	0.79	-0.05	3.77	2.91	65	241	26.97	35	220	84.09	9	5	7.5	7.9	2492	12.4	2591	.908	4
4	Colorado Avalanche*	28.2	82	56	19	7	119	.726	308	232	4	2	0.91	-0.04	3.76	2.83	67	279	24.01	48	236	79.66	6	5	9.0	10.4	2874	10.7	2625	.912	7
5	Minnesota Wild*	29.4	82	53	22	7	113	.689	305	249	5	4	0.68	-0.02	3.72	3.04	53	258	20.54	63	264	76.14	2	5	10.8	10.8	2666	11.4	2577	.903	3
6	Calgary Flames*	28.8	82	50	21	11	111	.677	291	206	2	2	0.99	-0.05	3.55	2.51	54	236	22.88	42	250	83.20	7	3	9.1	8.6	2908	10.0	2374	.913	11
7	Edmonton Oilers*	29.1	82	49	27	6	104	.634	285	251	5	1	0.46	0.00	3.48	3.06	61	235	25.96	52	252	79.37	11	6	8.1	7.1	2790	10.2	2647	.905	4
8	Tampa Bay Lightning*	29.6	82	51	23	8	110	.671	285	228	2	5	0.64	-0.02	3.48	2.78	62	259	23.94	49	252	80.56	7	5	11.0	11.4	2535	11.2	2441	.907	3
9	Carolina Hurricanes*	28.3	82	54	20	8	116	.707	277	200	1	2	0.88	-0.05	3.38	2.44	51	232	21.98	33	276	88.04	4	3	9.2	7.7	2798	9.9	2310	.913	6
10	Washington Capitals*	29.5	82	44	26	12	100	.610	270	242	5	3	0.35	-0.02	3.29	2.95	48	256	18.75	44	225	80.44	8	9	7.7	8.8	2577	10.5	2378	.898	8
11	Pittsburgh Penguins*	29.7	82	46	25	11	103	.628	269	222	3	7	0.49	-0.04	3.28	2.71	50	248	20.16	33	212	84.43	3	8	6.9	8.4	2849	9.4	2576	.914	7
12	Nashville Predators*	27.7	82	45	30	7	97	.591	262	250	4	2	0.19	0.02	3.20	3.05	63	258	24.42	59	284	79.23	2	5	12.6	11.9	2439	10.7	2646	.906	4
13	Vegas Golden Knights	28.5	82	43	31	8	94	.573	262	244	4	4	0.21	-0.01	3.20	2.98	39	212	18.40	47	208	77.40	10	7	7.6	7.7	2830	9.3	2458	.901	3
14	Columbus Blue Jackets	26.6	82	37	38	7	81	.494	258	297	4	3	-0.44	0.02	3.15	3.62	41	220	18.64	51	238	78.57	7	6	7.7	7.2	2463	10.5	2887	.897	2
15	Boston Bruins*	28.5	82	51	26	5	107	.652	253	218	2	2	0.38	-0.05	3.09	2.66	50	236	21.19	49	262	81.30	5	6	9.9	9.4	2962	8.5	2354	.907	4
16	New York Rangers*	26.7	82	52	24	6	110	.671	250	204	4	3	0.54	-0.03	3.05	2.49	55	218	25.23	40	226	82.30	8	2	8.2	8.2	2392	10.5	2528	.919	9
17	Winnipeg Jets	28.2	82	39	32	11	89	.543	250	253	2	4	-0.04	0.02	3.05	3.09	52	247	21.05	58	232	75.00	9	8	8.8	9.5	2645	9.5	2721	.907	5
18	Vancouver Canucks	27.7	82	40	30	12	92	.561	246	231	3	5	0.16	0.00	3.00	2.82	58	247	23.48	58	231	74.89	5	6	8.0	8.6	2622	9.4	2612	.912	1
19	New Jersey Devils	25.8	82	27	46	9	63	.384	245	302	3	5	-0.68	0.04	2.99	3.68	35	225	15.56	42	212	80.19	6	14	8.1	8.4	2562	9.6	2540	.881	2
20	Los Angeles Kings*	28.0	82	44	27	11	99	.604

 

[bobbyking]

why Is this thread still going on

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The lineup could have many changes but ngl it looks deep

View attachment 575325

I think this thread is hyperbole, but that's not a bad line up. There is a ton of upside to it, but there is also a pretty low floor. So many of those guys have been inconsistent that it's really is diifcult to compare it to the established best forward groups.

There's enough there to get VAN fans excited, but everything would need to break right for that to be amongst the league's best.

 

[Vakarte]

I think this thread is hyperbole, but that's not a bad line up. There is a ton of upside to it, but there is also a pretty low floor. So many of those guys have been inconsistent that it's really is diifcult to compare it to the established best forward groups.

There's enough there to get VAN fans excited, but everything would need to break right for that to be amongst the league's best.

Fair enough.

 

[Soundwave]

The Canucks do probably have a deeper forward core than say Calgary ... but I think people are not really understanding what scoring rate the Oilers scored at last year under Jay Woodcroft who dramatically improved their 5 on 5 metrics.

Under Woodcroft I believe the Oilers scored at I believe at a rate that would be 2nd in the NHL after only Florida, but unlike Florida who collapsed and got exposed in the playoffs, the Oilers offence went *up* in the playoffs even with a badly injured Draisaitl, which is scary.

Their playoffs GF is the 2nd highest in modern NHL history.

So I mean sure, you want to compare to the Oilers, tell me you can match up to that level of fire power. The Oilers in the playoffs scored nearly the same goals per game as the 86-87 Oilers literally. Not pace adjusted, they *literally* were scoring at a rate almost equal to the 80s Oilers with prime Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, etc. on it.

 

[Rebels57]

Not the deepest in the league by a long-shot, but it's a very solid group that will eventually get sunk by their defense.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I feel like Van fans have been telling us all of these players are amazing and they just end up stinking every year in a god awful pacific div. COVID excuse is running out boys

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

Look at OEL’s defensive stats, they were elite level last season. And Demko is easily better than Saros, Jarry, and Sorokin.

Um, no he isn't. He's definitely a top 5-7 goalie in the league but to say he's easily better than a recent Vezina finalist is... bold.

 

[North Cole]

2 players can only win you so many games. Nurse ain’t hughes, Campbell ain’t Demko if we’re going down this road.

Im not saying the poster is wrong or right for putting the oilers at #1 mate, I’m saying the sole reason said poster used for placing the Canucks bottom 3 applies to the oilers too in an even worse manner. Said poster didn’t disagree the op’s opinion that they have the deepest forward group. So how does the team with the deeper forward group, the better goalie, and the best dman finish bottom 3 compared to its counter part? Do you think mcdrai really make more of an impact over the course of a season?

My personal rankings would be:

Vegas
Calgary
Edmonton
Vancouver
LA
Anaheim
Seattle
SJ

I mean to the bold...of course they do WRT to their impact vs "deep" forward groups, because they play double the minutes that 3rd and 4th liners do. The Oilers pound teams when McDavid is on the ice, the guy consistently drives play to such a degree that it's essentially survival mode for the other team.

In response to the OP, Vancouver isn't close to teams like the Blues when it comes to forward depth, which the blues proved pretty easily last year with how many 20 goal scorers they had.

WRT to the claim that VAN is deeper than EDM, in raw offense is it even that clear that Vancouver is deeper? Personally I think teams look deeper when the top end is lesser. Taking out the two top guys from each:
>60pts, 1 VAN , 0 EDM
>50pts, 2 VAN , 2 EDM
>40pts, 1 VAN , 3 EDM
>30pts, 1 VAN , 3 EDM

Mikhey slots in there somewhere since he had 30 in 50ish, but Kane also prorates much higher than his 30 points during the regular season. Some of this honestly seems like it's just perception/optics that VAN is deeper rather than they actually are... You look deeper when you have a 99 point scorer and then mid 60's, mid 50's guys when compared to a team that has two guys blowing well past 100 points followed by a bunch of mid 50's/40's players. On aggregate we have a lot more guys in the 30-60 range, just there is a massive chasm between them and McDrai. The games played by the depth guys are not even that different, if you want to bump some of the VAN production because they were in the 70s you have to do the same for RNH who had 63 in 50.

 

[tfwnogf]

not even the deepest forward group in their division

 

[Soundwave]

not even the deepest forward group in their division

The Oilers have a fairly legitimate shot of being the highest scoring team in the league, so there's no shame in that.

They were 2nd in the league for GF I believe under Woodcroft or at least their scoring rate under Woodcroft would have put them at no.2 I believe, but their scoring went even higher in the playoffs to levels like only they and Colorado have hit like since the late 80s Oilers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The lineup could have many changes but ngl it looks deep

View attachment 575325

Am I missing something? That lineup doesn't look deep at all. Kuzmenko is a complete question mark in the NHL. Hoglander and Podkolzin haven't shown much in the NHL yet. Dickinson isn't a playoff caliber 3C and Lazar is a blah 4C.

 

[abo9]

Their top 3 C's are amazing depth.. if they play C and not wings (produced 5 less goals than the Leafs top 3 C's!!)

But, the wings are too weak and lack true, proven firepower, a lot of OP's thesis lies on guys taken big steps forwards or having good years (Mikheyev, Podkolzin, Kuzmenko, Pearson, maybe Hoglander?)

Overall it's a good group, but the weakness on wings is pretty evident when compared to top NHL forward groups (Leafs, Tampa, Colorado, Florida or even St Louis for example).

I think forward depth at the 3rd and 4th line is also pretty overstated at times. The difference between Vancouver's 3rd line and the Leaf's 3rd line for example is not enough to erase the difference between both team's first lines/2nd lines that play most of the game.

 

[Beezeral]

I think forward depth at the 3rd and 4th line is also pretty overstated at times.

this. 3rd and 4th line depth really shows up when you can confidently say that your 3rd and 4th lines will win matchups against your opponents 2nd and 3rd line which allows one of your top lines to feast on an opponents 4th line.

If you are comparing your 3rd line to others in the NHL and you can't make a legitimate argument for it being better than some opponents 2nd line, it's just another 3rd line.

 

[Drew Doubty]

Am I missing something? That lineup doesn't look deep at all. Kuzmenko is a complete question mark in the NHL. Hoglander and Podkolzin haven't shown much in the NHL yet. Dickinson isn't a playoff caliber 3C and Lazar is a blah 4C.

I don't know why he posted the lineup with Dickinson at 3c. Pretty obvious that they'll roll Miller, Pettersson, Horvat down the middle

I'm a massive homer, so when I look at this team I see 4 potential 30 goal scorers in Miller, Pettersson, Boeser, and Horvat. I see 7 wingers with top 6 potential in Hoglander, Podkolzin, Garland, Mikheyhev, Kuzmenko, Pearson and Boeser. I see a powerplay that was top 5 for the last 60 games of the season and a PK that could be massively improved with the additions of Mikheyhev and Lazar.

If I take my homer-goggles off for a secon, I think it's kind of a crap-shoot trying to predict the forwards performance next year given the uncertainty around so many players:

1. Pettersson - is he the man from the first 40 games where he scored at a 40pt pace or the final 40 games where he scored at a 40 goal/100 pt pace?
2. Miller - Can he repeat his 99pt performance?
3. Boeser - how much did his dad's illness affect his performance? Can he regain is 2020/21 form?
4. Kuzmenko - Impossible to predict...
5. Hoglander - Can he regain his footing after a sophmore slump?
6. Podkolzin - Can he maintain the pace he was setting in the final 25 games of the season last year?
7. Mikheyhev - Just how will he adjust to a new lineup? Seems like the perfect fit stylistically, but there are concerns about shooting % regression

The only players who can probably be easily predicted are Pearson, Horvat and Garland.

Aside from the uncertainty around individual players, there's was a big-time problem last year with how the forward ground was constructed. It was too slow, didn't have enough reliable PKers, and lacked a right-handed center who could take draws. To an outsider the additions of Mikheyhev and Lazar could seem small potatoes, but, on-paper at least, they are the exact types of players this team needs to improve.

 

[abo9]

I don't know why he posted the lineup with Dickinson at 3c. Pretty obvious that they'll roll Miller, Pettersson, Horvat down the middle

I'm a massive homer, so when I look at this team I see 4 potential 30 goal scorers in Miller, Pettersson, Boeser, and Horvat. I see 7 wingers with top 6 potential in Hoglander, Podkolzin, Garland, Mikheyhev, Kuzmenko, Pearson and Boeser. I see a powerplay that was top 5 for the last 60 games of the season and a PK that could be massively improved with the additions of Mikheyhev and Lazar.

If I take my homer-goggles off for a secon, I think it's kind of a crap-shoot trying to predict the forwards performance next year given the uncertainty around so many players:

1. Pettersson - is he the man from the first 40 games where he scored at a 40pt pace or the final 40 games where he scored at a 40 goal/100 pt pace?
2. Miller - Can he repeat his 99pt performance?
3. Boeser - how much did his dad's illness affect his performance? Can he regain is 2020/21 form?
4. Kuzmenko - Impossible to predict...
5. Hoglander - Can he regain his footing after a sophmore slump?
6. Podkolzin - Can he maintain the pace he was setting in the final 25 games of the season last year?
7. Mikheyhev - Just how will he adjust to a new lineup? Seems like the perfect fit stylistically, but there are concerns about shooting % regression

The only players who can probably be easily predicted are Pearson, Horvat and Garland.

Aside from the uncertainty around individual players, there's was a big-time problem last year with how the forward ground was constructed. It was too slow, didn't have enough reliable PKers, and lacked a right-handed center who could take draws. To an outsider the additions of Mikheyhev and Lazar could seem small potatoes, but, on-paper at least, they are the exact types of players this team needs to improve.

With all the uncertainty surrounding that forward group, the likely scenario is it goes half half and the Canucks are just an average or below average forward group.

There are lots of teams in the league that could become absolutely lethal if all their players attained their potential/had great years at the same time.

 

[TheRumble]

With all the uncertainty surrounding that forward group, the likely scenario is it goes half half and the Canucks are just an average or below average forward group.

There are lots of teams in the league that could become absolutely lethal if all their players attained their potential/had great years at the same time.

That's pretty much Florida last year.

- Huberdeau was a very good point per game guy, then he went supernova last year
- Mason Marchement last year had more points in the NHL than he's ever had at any time in his pro career - that's NHL, AHL, OHL.
- Barkov was scoring at a 100 point pace for the first time in his career
- Sam Reinhart who was a 60 point player for the majority of his career scored 82.
- Anthony Duclair had his best season in 8 years
- Sam Bennett literally doubled his previous career high
Etc.

And that's just the forwards. Their defensemen all had similar career years out of nowhere.

The only thing that really didn't go their way was Owen Tippett didn't turn out the be the player they hoped.

 

[majormajor]

The lineup could have many changes but ngl it looks deep

View attachment 575325

Looks like the most perfectly average forward lineup.

 

[Mr Positive]

If they have a forward group that is so great, then what has been their obstacle to success in this weaker division? It's not their goaltending. Is their D among the worst in the league?

 

[SwedishFire]

The lineup could have many changes but ngl it looks deep

View attachment 575325

Crazy depth. It will tell with how Kuzmenko will be playing. Höglander and Pearson at a 4th line role is crazy.
I would like to go with a full russian line some time (no one is center - wont work though). And would be intruged with a Petterson - Höglander duo. They c9ould think alike.

Petterson Miller Höglander
Garland Horvat Boeser
Podkolzin Dickinson Mikheyev
Pearson Lazar Kuzmenko

If they have a forward group that is so great, then what has been their obstacle to success in this weaker division? It's not their goaltending. Is their D among the worst in the league?

To mNy lightweighters. To many of the samw brand I would guess + wrong coach for that group. I expect Canucks being top 3 next year.

Oilers
Canucks
Flames
Vegas
Seattle
Sharks
Kings
Ducks

 

[Islay1989]

OEL elite

 

[tyhee]

I can’t really find any other team aside from St Louis and Colorado that has a more well rounded, balanced and potential threat line up than the Canucks.

Miller, Pettersson, Horvat, that’s 90-100 goals alone down the middle. I don’t think there’s any team with that type of scoring punch down the middle. Not to mention Boeser having a down year last season due to family reasons. He’s easily good for 25 goals on the wing.

Then you have another 25, potential 30 goal scorer in Mikheyev, 50+ playmaker in Garland, Podkolzin who will definitely build from last season potting perhaps another 20-20-40pts. That’s not even mentioning Kuzmenko who could very well be another Panarin type player. Even Pearson is good for 35-40 points including 15-20+ goals.

Demko is a top 5 goaltender in the league, and there’s Hughes and OEL (albeit overpaid) are 2 elite defenseman who make their partners much better than they are (Schenn and Myers).

With the amount of team defense this team has with the additions of Lazar, Mikheyev, Joshua, and even Dickinson, having that hole on the right side is manageable. Canucks were top 5 in the league in fewest even strength goals allowed with that atrocious right side, in large part thanks to OEL and his brains. PK was the main issue on defense but that should be improved.

I just can’t really think of a more well balanced group, especially the forward group, with an average age of 25 years old.

As long as we only have two top-four defencemen, the benefit obtained by having such depth that we have better healthy scratches at forward than the opponents isn't worth a great deal.

It can't be reasonably denied that the Canucks have depth at forward for this coming season, but there are teams with better overall forward groups and most teams in the league have strength at some position, either in depth or top end talent.

 

[Svencouver]

If they have a forward group that is so great, then what has been their obstacle to success in this weaker division? It's not their goaltending. Is their D among the worst in the league?

Coaching and D. Travis Green was one of the worst coaches in the NHL over the past decade. The optimistic homer-hopes are that a full season of Boudreau and an improved PK will be enough to make them a playoff team. Personally; I have no real expectations. The group is consistently inconsistent and unpredictable and I think all of the Oilers, Flames, and Knights are more of a sure thing to make the playoffs.

 

[QuinnsQuest]

Putting whether or not the Canucks are deep aside, some people are confusing "deep" for "best". A deep group of forwards can still be average overall if you lack elite talent at the top.

So they don’t have the most elite players in the league but a collection of good ones that can be deep? So that’s not good?

 

[QuinnsQuest]

I think people forget the Canucks have a few players on the verge of really breaking out. I wouldn't be surprised to see big years from:

Pettersson
Boeser
Podkolzin
Hughes
Miller

Then an abundance of depth scoring in Garland/Horvat/Kuzmenko/Mikheyev/Hoglander/Pearson

They're defiantly not the best, but I'd say at least top 10 forward group. I also really like the 4th line with Joshua-Lazar. Might just bookmark this thread so I can respond to all the blatant Canucks haters come next April. 15th-20th now that's some funny shit.

Well another year of optimism but same issue rely on foreards to play well enough to cover suspect D.