Proposal: Canucks-Penguins
- Thread starter Canuck Luck
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
What a unique proposal.
Answer is still no. Not enough from Vancouver
Answer is still no. Not enough from Vancouver
I’m surprised that this isn’t enough in your opinion. What are you looking for in a Pettersson deal if a 2nd + young player isn’t enough?
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 77,132
- 21,933
Hogs is a nice reclamation project but his value is compromised performance this year and contract. VAN can add D Elias Pettersson.
I’m well aware of some of the warts that Hog has, but that doesn’t really answer my question. What is sufficient value for Pettersson??? Because a 2nd and a young forward seems like pretty valid payment for a player of his calibre as a rental.
qc14
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2024
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Feel like both Hoglander and Desharnais are guys that are completely in the eye of the beholder. If Dubas likes one or both of them I totally see it -- part of the reason the futures package for Guentzel was so underwhelming was because he really wanted Bunting -- but there's just no way to know that ahead of time
Darren McCord
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2015
- 10,413
- 8,920
Jesse Puljujarvi has more points and 10 less games lol. He might have more valuable than Hog right now.
Sullivan is just an idiot and hates youth.
Petts gets a 2nd and better young forward/prospect than hog or a late 1st
Adding hog and Desharnais makes this messy
Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
If Tocchet doesn't like Hoglander Sullivan really isn't going to like him.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Because Hoglander stinks and has no value right now. He is currently on a 21 game pointless streak. He has zero value at best right now.
A 2nd and a young player is enough, but that would be something like a 2nd and Pettersson or a 2nd and Mynio. Hoglander's a throw-in and Desharnais will cost Vancouver assets to move.
Yeah even if you took out Desharnais, I don't think it's enough value for the Penguins. But adding him on just makes it even worse.
It's a 2nd, a guy that Vancouver will have to pay to get rid of and a guy who's quickly going towards a guy Vancouver will have to pay to get rid of for Pettersson and Puljujarvi. I don't even think Pettersson and Puljujarvi is all that valuable of a package, but this isn't touching reasonable value.
Ryder71
Registered User
- Nov 24, 2017
- 25,236
- 12,046
Add rearguard E Petts from Van.
If its HOG, Desharnais, D E. Petts and a '25 2hd that looks better.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Not taking on two cap dumps for a 2nd round pick.
Would honestly rather move Petts for a 2nd and a 3rd and then throw Vancouver Pulju straight up for Hogs.
Phrasing
Registered User
- Nov 16, 2007
- 5,069
- 3,566
The Penguins would probably want to take Juulsen too. Heck even the Canucks’ 20th ranked prospect to really even it up.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 77,132
- 21,933
Probably a late 1st. Hoglander holds some value for the right team, but not enough to bridge that gap.
It's realy 2 assets that VAN has no use for right now plus a 2nd for Petts, which isn't good enough to pull the trigger on at this point in the season.
Pettersson's the type of stabilizing presence that should have more value heading into the deadline. But we'll see what Dubas does with that leverage.
Man I want nothing to do with a TDL where Marcus Pettersson is worth a 1st round pick.
I won't open up the Hoglander can of worms but he's not a cap dump
I won't open up the Hoglander can of worms but he's not a cap dump
SEALBound
Fancy Gina Carano
- Jun 13, 2010
- 43,829
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No to the OP but I do think there is a deal to be worked out.
I think it comes from a general premise of:
1. Hoglander has very low value.
2. Desharnais has very low value and may cost a minor asset to move.
3. Pettersson can come with up to 50% retention and there's a strong possibility that if he is the target, the will look to extend him for next year.
If you want it to be Hoglander and Desharnais, the gap is greater than a 2nd rounder for Pettersson along (even retained). I think something like Hogs, Des, 1st for Pettersson (no retention) is doable. If you want retention, tack on a 3rd and we can send back a 5th or something.
If you are flexible with Desharnais, I think we can get closer if you replace him with Pettersson or Mynio. So Hoglander, Pettersson or Mynio, 2nd for Pettersson would be about right.
If you want Puljujarvi, I would put his value around a 4th to be honest. So there's a couple ways to do that:
Hoglander, Petts/Mynio, 2nd, 4th for Pettersson, Puljujarvi
Hoglander, Petts/Mynio, 1st for Pettersson (retained), Puljujarvi
You could also make it a larger trade of: Hoglander, Pettersson, Desharnais, 1st for Pettersson (50%), Puljujarvi, 4th
I think it comes from a general premise of:
1. Hoglander has very low value.
2. Desharnais has very low value and may cost a minor asset to move.
3. Pettersson can come with up to 50% retention and there's a strong possibility that if he is the target, the will look to extend him for next year.
If you want it to be Hoglander and Desharnais, the gap is greater than a 2nd rounder for Pettersson along (even retained). I think something like Hogs, Des, 1st for Pettersson (no retention) is doable. If you want retention, tack on a 3rd and we can send back a 5th or something.
If you are flexible with Desharnais, I think we can get closer if you replace him with Pettersson or Mynio. So Hoglander, Pettersson or Mynio, 2nd for Pettersson would be about right.
If you want Puljujarvi, I would put his value around a 4th to be honest. So there's a couple ways to do that:
Hoglander, Petts/Mynio, 2nd, 4th for Pettersson, Puljujarvi
Hoglander, Petts/Mynio, 1st for Pettersson (retained), Puljujarvi
You could also make it a larger trade of: Hoglander, Pettersson, Desharnais, 1st for Pettersson (50%), Puljujarvi, 4th
Pettersson is fine as a target, but a young winger, a promising D prospect, a second and replacement D is too much for him from the Canucks. Puljujarvi would be in the doghouse immeadiately\, and is therefore just blocking younger players.
D Petey isn't a throw in, Hoglander isn't a junk piece, and even Desharnais can have his uses, and while M Petey is an upgrade on Soucy, the Pens fans ask is too high for us.
D Petey isn't a throw in, Hoglander isn't a junk piece, and even Desharnais can have his uses, and while M Petey is an upgrade on Soucy, the Pens fans ask is too high for us.
Bishop7979
Registered User
- Sep 9, 2005
- 1,912
- 466
There is a second and a good young forward on a reasonable contract and the and there is a second and hog who is sliding into busy territory and is highly overpaid for multiple years.
The pens do the nucks a favor taking that contact and desharnais contract so they can afford Petterson and say now what are you actually giving us for swallowing that contact and giving you Petts
That's 4 mil this year, 5 next and 3 the year after. That's cap flexibility going forward for town players that are empty jerseys in your roster, that alone is gonna cost you.
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
He doesn’t have a point in 21 games and hasn’t even started a 3x3 extension. Saying he has no value right now is being generous.
Hoglander wouldn’t be considered a “junk” piece, but he certainly has little to no value. Especially with his new contract.
No one would bat an eye if he got traded tomorrow for a 3rd/4th rounder.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I find it funny that you're accusing Penguisn fans of asking for too much when you're giving a comically biased interpretation of the Canucks assets being given up. Hoglander is a "young winger" with 5 points in 31 games this year, is currently on a 21 game pointless streak and hasn't even started a 3x3 extension yet. Desharnais is a "replacement defensemen" yet he's a #7 D signed for $2 million with term that Vancouver is actively looking to get rid of. Yet somehow those two are positive pieces for the Penguins to be getting for Pettersson?
Last deadline, Tanev was traded to Dallas for Grushnikov and a 2nd. D-man Elias Pettersson and a 2nd is about as apples to apples as you can get for that, and it doesn't involve the Penguins taking back a cap dump D or a struggling young forward with a questionable contract. If the Penguins aren't getting at minimum EP and a 2nd for MP, why would they bother trading him to the Canucks? Especially when Vancouver has to dump a shitty contract to make MP's deal work.
Turin
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2018
- 25,013
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He's not a "I'll pay you to take him guy" but he's got pretty small value. Conor Sheary was a similar player with an even better season than Hogs best under his belt and he was dealt for basically nothing in 2018.
3 million a season isn't too far out of line for a bottom six player. Hoglander has been better than that until this year, too, so this is the lowest his value has ever been, and he's 24,
However, his value, even taking the new cap hit and current performance into account, isn't needing a 2nd round pick, and a bottom pairing D, and a promising prospect to get Marcus Pettersson. Fowler and Trouba just went for far, far less, and Jricek went for a little more then what's being asked for.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Trouba was a cap dump that has term left at $8 million. Jiricek brought back wildly more value than what you're throwing out. The return Fowler brought back is actually in line with what Penguins fans in here are asking for. We just put zero value on Hoglander and negative value on Desharnais.
Penguins fans want about the same return that Tanev brought back as a rental last year. Offer that and most Penguins fans would be satisfied. A 2nd, Hoglander and Desharnais isn't that.
- Nov 12, 2021
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