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credulous

Registered User
Nov 18, 2021
3,637
4,877
cap accrual is pretty simple, just a lot of bookkeeping

the season is ~190 days and the trade deadline is usually ~40 days before the end of the season. for every day you're a million under the cap you "bank" about $11,400. if you're 1 million under the cap from day one until the trade deadline you'll have about 1.7m to spend. however, there's only 40 days left in the season so you only need to pay the players you pick up about 22% of their contracts so you actually get to spend about 7.8m

can the canucks get 1m under the cap tho? probably not

their most probable roster is pettersson, miller, boeser, debrusk, garland, joshua, heinen, blueger, suter, sherwood, hoglander, pdg and podkolzin or aman up front and hughes, hronek, soucy, myers, desharnais, forbort and juulsen or friedman on d. demko and patera or silovs in net. that's only 22 and they'll probably carry 23 but for now assume a 22 man roster

that's 82m. there's also a little over 3m in dead cap and tucker poolman at another 2.5m

that's 87.5 or just over 500k in cap space or just under 4m in deadline cap room

the canucks could send players down on off days but they have zero waiver eligible players in that list above (except silovs, but if you send him down you need to bring up another goalie). maybe you could get aman/pdg or friedman/juulsen through waivers but it's probably not worth the risk. they'd have to cut pdg or aman and play karlsson or bains instead. if you can paper them down half the time you can squeeze out another 1.5m in deadline space though

the other problem is that you can't use ltir to replace players if you want to build up cap space. any injured players need to go on regular ir and while you can call up players to replace them the canucks probably won't have the cap space to do so without leveraging ltir (at which point you can't accrue)

tl;dr poolman probably has to go if the canucks are going to try to create cap space by running under the cap up to the deadline
 
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Blue and Green

Out to lunch
Dec 17, 2017
3,572
3,621
It wouldn't make much sense to bring in another RD only to sit Desharnais on he bench. Myers and Hronek play every game and Desharnais played 78 last year. But I could see a LD to replace Forbort from time to time as he's had some injuries and performance concerns . It would push Friedman down to the AHL. I think they are more likely to bring in a cheap UFA as compared to trade. Who knows though.

I wanted an upgrade D too but I think this is what we're going with to start the year with. Unless they signed Forbort to be a sub. I hope they told him that if so.

You don't sign a 7th defenceman for $1.5M. Forbort's either going to start the season as the third-pair LD or he's going to get traded.
 
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bossram

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
16,334
16,350
Victoria
Similar to last offseason, I am quite pleased with Allvin's work. Between Suter last season, and Heinen/Sherwood this summer, he's gone out and signed a few of My Guys at very reasonable deals.

I know I have been one of the people adamant against signing one of the 2nd tier forwards (i.e. Toffoli, Teravainen, Bertuzzi, etc) on big deals, Debrusk is the one exception to that group and I am content they got a deal there. He's a younger UFA, very strong all-around two-way profile, crucially brings some speed on the rush, and forechecks well enough to fit Tocc's system. I think he's a very good player and a great fit. It's solid work. Drop him and Heinen on Petey's wings and I think they have a very effective line.

Forbort and Desharnais will get 3rd pair deployment and are paid as such. Both have pretty strong defensive impacts and are great PKers, another area of need. No issues there. Allvin/Rutherford/Tocc like their trees on the back end. I don't believe the blueline is yet finished and they need some more mobility there, but I'll wait to see what shakes loose. They could wait out a guy like Brannstrom for a league minimum deal. A top-four guy might get dumped later.

But overall, another very competent July 1st for Allvin from me.
 

ChilliBilly

Registered User
Aug 22, 2007
7,173
4,446
chilliwacki
So we got rid of all of our serious dead weight.

Who gets sent down and probably claimed? PDG? Aman? Friedman? Juulson? None of them are making any money.

Question ? We have 14 forwards , 7 d men. and 2 or 3 goalies. It means we can't bring anybody up from the farm. Is 23 the max we can carry, and is there place we can park somebody who we want to keep and not send through waivers?
 

valkynax

The LEEDAR
Sponsor
May 19, 2011
10,862
12,208
Burnaby
Similar to last offseason, I am quite pleased with Allvin's work. Between Suter last season, and Heinen/Sherwood this summer, he's gone out and signed a few of My Guys at very reasonable deals.

I know I have been one of the people adamant against signing one of the 2nd tier forwards (i.e. Toffoli, Teravainen, Bertuzzi, etc) on big deals, Debrusk is the one exception to that group and I am content they got a deal there. He's a younger UFA, very strong all-around two-way profile, crucially brings some speed on the rush, and forechecks well enough to fit Tocc's system. I think he's a very good player and a great fit. It's solid work. Drop him and Heinen on Petey's wings and I think they have a very effective line.

Forbort and Desharnais will get 3rd pair deployment and are paid as such. Both have pretty strong defensive impacts and are great PKers, another area of need. No issues there. Allvin/Rutherford/Tocc like their trees on the back end. I don't believe the blueline is yet finished and they need some more mobility there, but I'll wait to see what shakes loose. They could wait out a guy like Brannstrom for a league minimum deal. A top-four guy might get dumped later.

But overall, another very competent July 1st for Allvin from me.

We shall wait until puck drop in October and see how our guys will be playing.

Hopefully Pete can regain his form.
 
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DFAC

Registered User
Jan 19, 2008
7,555
5,511
Vancouver
Hoglander - Pettersson - DeBrusk
Podkolzin- Miller - Boeser
Joshua - Suter - Garland
Sherwood - Bluger- Heinen

Feel like we still need a top 6 winger (Joshua and or Pod may fill it). Leaves me to wonder if they are hoping that Lekk makes it on to the team half way into the year. I think this is a much more difficult forward group to play against and will have purpose and make things uncomfortable. I think our D group is concerning and we need to find a more rounded dman that is preferably a number two. Garland and Hoglander are the only two with that kind of value and it would probably also take our first. A number of dmen signed today for reasonable contracts. TSN had a question about if Van and Toronto overpaid for Petty and Nylander based on today’s signing. I say no, it we get first half petey and I think we will.

I do think the team is better and will do well. They will be hard to play and should have a solid penalty kill.


I predict it won’t take that long.

I think it looks like this

Suter - Miller - Boeser
Debrusk - Pettersson - Heinen
Joshua - Bleuger - Garland
Sherwood - Aman - Hoglander
Podkolzin

Hughes - Hronek
Soucy - Myers
Forbort - Desharnais
Juulsen

Demko
Silovs

You can clearly see the team management is trying to build here - hard working, tough to play against and hitting anything in sight. Very similar to how their head coach played.

Ideally you probably want to move Hoglander to upgrade on a top 6 winger and move Heinen down. I wonder if we can do something around Hoglander for Laine or Ehlers. Debrusk - Petey - Laine would be fun to watch. Or if you can get an Olofsson, Sprong or Tatar in the bargain bin to put alongside Petey.

Suter - Miller - Boeser
Debrusk - Pettersson - Laine
Joshua - Bleuger - Garland
Sherwood - Aman - Heinen
Podkolzin

That's a very deep team with the ability to roll out 4 lines. Very Florida Panthers like.
 
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DFAC

Registered User
Jan 19, 2008
7,555
5,511
Vancouver
Shrewd pickups. Debrusk the only pricey contract on Free Agent day 1 which is generally insane.

I suspect there will be more moves to come, PA applying some patience.

$5.5m for someone who's 27 and scored 27 goals twice and 25 goals once is pretty on point in terms of value.

If he can pot 30+ alongside Petey and help with PP1, you're laughing and that's very possible.

Good signing by Alvin. Only move I didn't like from him today was the Desharnais one.
 

Nuckler

Registered User
May 7, 2013
236
110
The only contract big enough and movable is Garland and I'd be more than a little hesitant to pull the trigger on that. But Necas has tools that are awfully intriguing and I can't help but wonder if the system in Carolina might be holding him back.
Also with the depth guys they signed, somebody could probably fill garlands spot to lesser effect
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

Registered User
Oct 29, 2002
21,619
7,864
San Francisco
Similar to last offseason, I am quite pleased with Allvin's work. Between Suter last season, and Heinen/Sherwood this summer, he's gone out and signed a few of My Guys at very reasonable deals.

I know I have been one of the people adamant against signing one of the 2nd tier forwards (i.e. Toffoli, Teravainen, Bertuzzi, etc) on big deals, Debrusk is the one exception to that group and I am content they got a deal there. He's a younger UFA, very strong all-around two-way profile, crucially brings some speed on the rush, and forechecks well enough to fit Tocc's system. I think he's a very good player and a great fit. It's solid work. Drop him and Heinen on Petey's wings and I think they have a very effective line.

Forbort and Desharnais will get 3rd pair deployment and are paid as such. Both have pretty strong defensive impacts and are great PKers, another area of need. No issues there. Allvin/Rutherford/Tocc like their trees on the back end. I don't believe the blueline is yet finished and they need some more mobility there, but I'll wait to see what shakes loose. They could wait out a guy like Brannstrom for a league minimum deal. A top-four guy might get dumped later.

But overall, another very competent July 1st for Allvin from me.

Agreed with all this. The one thing I'll add is, save Forbort, every single contract they signed today has an element of an upside bet. Including DeBrusk. And even with Forbort, there's a decent chance of surplus value there relative to the market.

I love that approach to roster construction. Similar, though not exactly the same, as what Zito does in Florida.
 

arttk

Registered User
Feb 16, 2006
18,379
10,318
Los Angeles
Puckpedia explains it pretty well, basically cap is calculated and spent daily, and whatever you don't spend you bank and can spend later:


If we are right under the cap, the savings aren't all that significant. For example, for every ten days with $100k in aav savings, you get to have a $1M aav player for just one day "bonus" on your roster later on. But it can offer some flexibility. As Allvin was saying in his presser today, once you build up a bit of accrued cap, it allows you to bring some players up from the minors for short stints without having to place additional players on LTIR. We could just carry some extra salary on the roster for a few days and rest some regular roster players to give some prospects some ice time. So if we are say $500k under the cap with our usual roster, every month we could call up a prospect for a week and a bit without going over the cap, and give some rest to our regulars.

I do think all this makes more sense if they move Poolman, because his $2.5M is significant dead cap to carry just to accrue a bit of flexibility.
I think we will see Poolman’s contract moved when we get to around Dec, the price to take on that is going to be way cheaper and that will free up like 2.5M to accrue cap.
 
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Pure West

Registered User
Oct 3, 2005
2,026
346
Vancouver
Management took a restrained approach and I'm happy they did. It seems that once Guentzel wasn't going to be coming here management went about assembling a team. Had Guentzel signed here for 9x7 like he did in Tampa (probably more), we're likely just mining the scrap heap after day 1 and trying to find players who can come play for next to nothing to fill out 3-4 holes on the roster. Instead, we are all in on how Tocchet wants to play. I like the additions of Heinen and Sherwood, and with Debrusk we've added some speed and a great playoff performer. On defense, a player who can move the puck better would have been preferred over either of Forbort or Desharnais, but we'll see if they're done. Tocchet definitely likes his big guys back there so our style of play won't change.

I'm pretty happy that Debrusk was the only guy with big dollars and term attached. I'm not convinced this is the guy who's going to tear it up with Petey, as he seems like more of a North-South kinda player. The rest would be easily movable if they don't work out.
 
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Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
30,743
26,726
If they waive someone like Desharnais at camp, do they have the space to bring up Poolman for the day 1 roster so that we can toll daily space if we were to move on?

Like is that a hedge option @Vector ?

I talked about this two days ago but one worry I had was the inability to pivot if we gave out deals with protection… only DeBrusk can’t be pivoted from.

A lot of salary that can be used to match and none with significant term.
 

valkynax

The LEEDAR
Sponsor
May 19, 2011
10,862
12,208
Burnaby
I kinda feel better losing the bad karma of Cole and DeSmiths pasts tbh.

Cole was directly responsible for...what, 6 goals in the 2nd round? Injuries? Yeah everyone's playing with injury, grow up princess. Besides, was it injuries that caused you to screen Silovs countless times?

Wouldn't want his bum ass back for free.
 

GranvilleIsland

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
1,463
952
Vancouver, B.C.
I guess we're all worried about the defensive depth and puck moving ability. Hopefully we're all wrong again. I do worry that Allvin thinks Forbot abd Desharnais can make a good quick first pass, he mentioned that during the presser.
 

bossram

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
16,334
16,350
Victoria
Agreed with all this. The one thing I'll add is, save Forbort, every single contract they signed today has an element of an upside bet. Including DeBrusk. And even with Forbort, there's a decent chance of surplus value there relative to the market.

I love that approach to roster construction. Similar, though not exactly the same, as what Zito does in Florida.
Yep. The deals are all reasonable-to-discounted, and most have some untapped upside to get major value. Sherwood was an excellent AHL scorer and might have more to give offensively. If he does, huge win. Debrusk and Heinen are historically very efficient ES scorers. On a consistent line with Petey, they could see their raw production tick way up. Vinny D is somewhat of a late bloomer and his mobility is improving. Could be something more there, and if not, he's a solid bottom-pair piece.

Forbort at least is a very effective PKer and will fill a need there.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
29,296
17,212
Every cent of cap counts, so I don’t know if it would work - but Motte is still out there, and a fourth line of Sherwood/Suter/Motte would sure be nice.

i appreciate today’s methodology. instead of retreading a guy like motte, a good player that we all like whose ceiling is known, we got sherwood, who has upside. and they are the same age but one guy has miles on him and the other doesn’t.
 

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