Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | League Wide Chaos

[Vector]

Last one was over 1,000. Use this thread to discuss league-wide trade and free agent rumours. The Around the League thread is for coaching changes, league news, SCF chat, etc.

Vector's NHL Transaction Tracker.

Some Important Off-Season Dates

Buyout Period: June 27th, evening; players without NMCs must be placed on unconditional waivers 24 hours prior (another buyout period opens if a team has a player file for arbitration). This buyout period ends June 30th. 8:00pm.
Team-Elected Arbitration: June 26th, evening
NHL Awards: June 27th
Draft Day 01: June 28th
Draft Day 02: June 29th
Qualifying Offer Date: June 30th
Free Agency Opens: July 1st, 9am PST
Summer Development Camp: July 1st-4th
Player-Elected Arbitration: July 5th
Young Stars Classic Tournament: Sep. 13th-16th

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[ziploc]

MATHIEU JOSEPH!

Who?

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I am starting to wonder if the Guentzel camp is worrying that the market might not be as strong for him as they thought and they don't want to get in postion like Gaudreau did where they have to take whatever deal is on the table. The Kings don't make makes sense they don't have the cap space, unless the bridge Byfield which would be stupid. Who's left the GoldenKnights they seem focused on Marchessault and Marner. The Hurricanes if he gets to July 1st are out, the Rangers and Predators seemed to be the best fits other than the Canucks. Then you have the bad teams that can just pay him a ton of money Wings, Utah, BlackHawks, Capitals which would mean the Canucks never had a chance.

 

[sting101]

I really hope so. There's probably some PTSD right now but I'm not loving the general tone of the reports we're hearing and the players we're linked to.

There's also probably some PTSD linked to the Blue Jays offseason where they blew their wad chasing Ohtani and watched everything else go past them while that failed chase was happening, and I really don't want to see that repeat with Guentzel.

Fair enough but the one thing they have repeatedly done is leak info that they are interested in X to force player/agents to decide if they will except their terms of a deal or they will pivot.

It's smart business. You can bet your ass every good agent is doing the same shit saying yes well we can get X in free agency.

The last regime didnt even understand that posturing when and how was a thing

When i hear Duhaime or Greenway i think those names are out there to make Joshua think 3 million for Greenway hmmn?...or Duhaime they like and think can replace me hmmn?

For Dakota his agent probably thinks he can get close to 4 million but teams wont prioritize a 3rd liner so whatever collusion is happening still comes with substantial risk. It's entirely likely if the Canucks are close at 3.25 but also offer a chance to continue playing with Garland plus gave him his big opportunity to begin with maybe they work it out.

And if they dont it's because Allvin Constonguay Granato and JR are not stupid and are focussed on big picture make team better not i saw this guy 4yrs ago and thought to myself if he was in the East he would be in the Norris conversation gotta get him no matter what

 

[alternate]

I wish we got to see Joshua playing alongside Miller or Pettersson last year. I would be a lot more comfortable giving him the term/AAV he is looking for if we knew that he’d be able to scale his production up with top-six deployment.

Right now I feel like the perception is that his 5v5 play is closely linked to Garland’s deployment. It would be nice to have a bit more sample size on where else in the line up he can play.

He did get some top 6 time, but it didn't go well. Wasn't a ton of time, but enough to be skeptical that he's got untapped top 6 potential imo.

 

[ziploc]

I know he's not a Tocchet guy but I think Sprong would explode offensively next to Petey.

 

[MS]

That comes down to what you believe made the Canucks good last year, and why they failed, ultimately.

I think it speaks volumes as to what management thinks they need to improve the roster, and what they're letting go. Their messaging could not be more clear... And more disparate to some of the assessments made here.

What made the team good last year was strong systems play and quality depth.

No passengers, no weak links. All 3 defensive pairings could play high-leverage minutes. Your top 3 lines could all play matchup minutes. Star goalie behind that.

They need improved scoring on the second line, but thinking that you'll move forward by sacrificing a) your insane 3rd line scoring, b) the overall culture is to me a fool's bet and a false economy.

They failed mostly because their starting goalie got hurt.

 

[Hodgy]

No argument there.

This is why the Joshua situation is so frustrating to me. The guy scored at a 42 ESP point pace from your 3rd line. If he can do that again, he's still an amazing value proposition at $3 million. It should be an automatic signing. Maybe he regresses, but that's a chance you have to take. And hell, maybe he does a Burrows if he gets put on Pettersson's line and scores 30 goals.

But we're talking about punting the most obvious high-value proposition so we can blow way more money on a Toffoli or a Skinner. It makes no sense, and this is how you end up taking a major step backward instead of just treading water.

We aren't going to do the bolded from a Tyler Toffoli signing.

As always, of course, if they don't sign Joshua it depends on who they sign instead. I agree that I don't like the idea of singing Toffoli or Skinner instead of Joshua, but I am fully on board with chasing high end winger talent to play with Pettersson (Guentzel or Reinhart).

And while I still would prefer Joshua to a Toffoloi or Skinner, it must also be recognized that there is a ton of risk with Joshua given his limited sample size and that he's likely going to take the absolutely highest net contract value available to him so the chances of finding value in his next contract may not be great.

 

[ziploc]

What made the team good last year was strong systems play and quality depth.

No passengers, no weak links. All 3 defensive pairings could play high-leverage minutes. Your top 3 lines could all play matchup minutes. Star goalie behind that.

They need improved scoring on the second line, but thinking that you'll move forward by sacrificing a) your insane 3rd line scoring, b) the overall culture is to me a fool's bet and a false economy.

They failed mostly because their starting goalie got hurt.

Agreed. I hate the idea of losing that third line. But we also desperately need a 2nd line answer. And a blueline. Something's got to give.

 

[Hodgy]

What made the team good last year was strong systems play and quality depth.

No passengers, no weak links. All 3 defensive pairings could play high-leverage minutes. Your top 3 lines could all play matchup minutes. Star goalie behind that.

They need improved scoring on the second line, but thinking that you'll move forward by sacrificing a) your insane 3rd line scoring, b) the overall culture is to me a fool's bet and a false economy.

They failed mostly because their starting goalie got hurt.

Last year was a tale of two teams in many ways. Pre-Pettersson sucking, and post-Pettersson sucking. I want to get back to the pre-Pettersson sucking team and I am not sure we can do that with Mikheyev and Hoglander on his wings.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Just like the TDL, I just get this sense there’s going to be a ton of talk and no action come this offseason.

I’m not optimistic at all right now.

 

[sting101]

MATHIEU JOSEPH!

I know you like him and he has great tools but he's not a high IQ player. There is a reason why the Sens have been trying to move him. A bit of a Athanasiou Lafferty type player that will piss off linemates and coaches with bad decisions.

Would love if we could pluck him into a 4th line energy role and get some tremndous speed and offense when he's feeling it but he's making 3 million now. I'm not as sold as you are that he works in our top3 lines effectively

 

[MS]

Last year was a tale of two teams in many ways. Pre-Pettersson sucking, and post-Pettersson sucking. I want to get back to the pre-Pettersson sucking team and I am not sure we can do that with Mikheyev and Hoglander on his wings.

No argument. This is why, to me, Mikheyev absolutely has to be gone and if they have to pay a 1st to do it, whatever.

I do feel that never trying Garland/Joshua with Pettersson at C was a big mistake and a wasted opportunity. I don't see why Joshua wouldn't have been a good fit with Pettersson.

The worst possible outcome to me is that we gut our bottom-6, sign a Toffoli or something, and are running back Mikheyev-Pettersson-Toffoli as a line this year. That's not moving forward.

 

[Bleach Clean]

What made the team good last year was strong systems play and quality depth.

No passengers, no weak links. All 3 defensive pairings could play high-leverage minutes. Your top 3 lines could all play matchup minutes. Star goalie behind that.

They need improved scoring on the second line, but thinking that you'll move forward by sacrificing a) your insane 3rd line scoring, b) the overall culture is to me a fool's bet and a false economy.

They failed mostly because their starting goalie got hurt.

Your forgetting high conversion rates....

Their unusual ability to convert on low shot volumes allowed the their 3rd line talent (of which they are flush) to play the remaining game to a stand still.

When the game tightened up further in the playoffs, and the ability of their top players to convert regressed, we saw record low shot totals and very low scoring totals.

What you're proposing they do has them localize the scoring to the top, again, where they become subject to conversion swings in a significant way, again.

Management, to their credit, is going in the opposite direction (it seems). They are addressing the teams ability to convert first. The remaining players required to keep the game at a stand still are secondary concerns.

 

[wonton15]

No argument. This is why, to me, Mikheyev absolutely has to be gone and if they have to pay a 1st to do it, whatever.

I do feel that never trying Garland/Joshua with Pettersson at C was a big mistake and a wasted opportunity. I don't see why Joshua wouldn't have been a good fit with Pettersson.

The worst possible outcome to me is that we gut our bottom-6, sign a Toffoli or something, and are running back Mikheyev-Pettersson-Toffoli as a line this year. That's not moving forward.

Unfortunately, this to me is the most likely outcome. A Zucker or a Toffoli with Dillon and Myers signing seems like a really real reality (lol). Missing out on Guentzel, Joshua walks, Zadorov walks, Mikheyev stays. Enter Zucker/Toffoli/Skinner.

 

[MS]

Your forgetting high conversion rates....

Their unusual ability to convert on low shot volumes allowed the their 3rd line talent (of which they are flush) to play the remaining game to a stand still.

When the game tightened up further in the playoffs, and the ability of their top players to convert regressed, we saw record low shot totals and very low scoring totals.

What you're proposing they do has them localize the scoring to the top, again, where they become subject to conversion swings in a significant way, again.

Management, to their credit, is going in the opposite direction (it seems). They are addressing the teams ability to convert first. The remaining players required to keep the game at a stand still are secondary concerns.

Improving the team's ability to convert does not align with moving away from Joshua, who was their best 'converter' down the stretch and into the playoffs.

Unfortunately, this to me is the most likely outcome. A Zucker or a Toffoli with Dillon and Myers signing seems like a really real reality (lol). Missing out on Guentzel, Joshua walks, Zadorov walks, Mikheyev stays. Enter Zucker/Toffoli/Skinner.

This is what I'm scared of.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Improving the team's ability to convert does not align with moving away from Joshua, who was their best 'converter' down the stretch and into the playoffs.

This year, and he is no way a surer bet to convert over the next 2 years over Toffoli (both at ES and especially overall).

Edit: This is their best shot to accrue talent with max cap flexibility. They don't seem eager to squander it by locking down 3rd line talent to term.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Agreed with all of this.

Guentzel is obviously a higher-level player and if that's a target, fine.

A guy like Debrusk is young enough/probably cheap enough/works hard enough that he'd be an OK buy at worst.

The age 30+ soft skill 50 point guys are terrifying and I do not want to go for 4 or 5 years at an inflated price for a Toffoli or a Teravainen. And when I look at taking Joshua and his 40 ES points/82 for $3 million and moving off that to sign an old, soft player who scored 35 ES points last year for $5 million ... I'm like WTF.

That's why if we don't land Guentzel, I would prefer the trade route for a winger to play with EP. Even if we have to pay a first and/or Lekkerimaki for the right return. Necas or Konecny( would pay alot if he came with an extension) for example. You would pay more in aquisition and cap, but wouldn't be worried about decline in the near future. Hopefully can get Mikheyev included in the trade like Ottawa was able to do with Korpisalo.

 

[alternate]

Might have to be....time to accept that Mikeyev will be on the roster? A buyout locks in some hefty dead cap (OEL buyout hit leaps up) charges during the Canucks's contending window (Demko and Hughes deals). And it seems the prices to dump salary are all over the place.

Mikheyev has a history of being a very effective third liner. He was exactly that in Toronto. With a full season under his belt, his skating might finally return from the knee injury, like we saw with Connor Brown in the playoffs.

Mikheyev - Blueger - Garland should be a well-functioning third line.

Of course, this completely eliminates the Canucks from any big fish in the UFA market. Allvin would be reduced to secondary top-six forward targets like Heinen (who I would go after regardless), Toffoli, Arvidsson, etc.

I'm more and more resigned to this as well. Think the FO will wait for him to bounce back a bit (he's not likely to score 1 goal in 60 games again) and then move him when an opportunity arises, whether during the season or next offseason.

But, I did do a Capfriendly roster with Mikheyev, Guentzel @ $9.5m and Zadorov @ $4.75m so there still is room to add a couple big pieces. Even moreso if Guentzel goes elsewhere.

@MS has said a couple times " Dakota @ $3m" but I don't think that's realistic. His contract is going to be closer to 4 than 3 is my expectation.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Guentzel at $9.5m x 7, or DeBrusk at $6.75m x 7, who would you prefer (or neither)?

Guentzel is the better offensive player but we are so tight to the cap where every cent counts, and DeBrusk brings elements we need, I'm starting to lean towards DeBrusk. Hope management can get one of them for Petey.

 

[Vector]

I know you like him and he has great tools but he's not a high IQ player. There is a reason why the Sens have been trying to move him. A bit of a Athanasiou Lafferty type player that will piss off linemates and coaches with bad decisions.

Would love if we could pluck him into a 4th line energy role and get some tremndous speed and offense when he's feeling it but he's making 3 million now. I'm not as sold as you are that he works in our top3 lines effectively

You are correct in that he is far more motor than cerebral player. Tocchet talks about having a 1F be the guy who is first on the forecheck and that's Joseph. He has far more playmaking skill that Lafferty even if it is just small in-zone passes. I envision him as the perfect Tocchet-system player. He's also an excellent penalty killer.

I have said all along, I wouldn't be willing to actually give up a meaningful asset for him. I prefer him at his contract to pretty much everyone else on the free agent market.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Might have to be....time to accept that Mikeyev will be on the roster? A buyout locks in some hefty dead cap (OEL buyout hit leaps up) charges during the Canucks's contending window (Demko and Hughes deals). And it seems the prices to dump salary are all over the place.

Mikheyev has a history of being a very effective third liner. He was exactly that in Toronto. With a full season under his belt, his skating might finally return from the knee injury, like we saw with Connor Brown in the playoffs.

Mikheyev - Blueger - Garland should be a well-functioning third line.

Of course, this completely eliminates the Canucks from any big fish in the UFA market. Allvin would be reduced to secondary top-six forward targets like Heinen (who I would go after regardless), Toffoli, Arvidsson, etc.

I had posted a line-up a few weeks back with Guentzel and Mikheyev on it. It included Myers re-signing and budget options everywhere else.

But you're right, I think Mikheyev returns. He's a top6 bet that failed, but if you pair him with Blueger and Mikheyev, it could get close to what they had with Joshua there (optimistic, I know).