Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | 4 Nations Break Edition

[604]

Who did we have that could have been the Jack Johnson of the deal?

25 year-old, second pairing Jack Johnson who was always a big minus player on a decent Kings team? Lots. The Kings had a better 1st than us, so we need to either give up Hodgson or Schneider along with our 1st.

CBJ were rumored to have agreed to settle on Schneider + 1st and we turned it down because we didn't want to give up Schneider. We wanted to build a long-term sustainable model and the guys on here totally glazed management for not giving up futures.

The team slowly went down the drain with nobody to replace the production of our aging core.

 

[racerjoe]

25 year-old, second pairing Jack Johnson who was always a big minus player on a decent Kings team? Lots. The Kings had a better 1st than us, so we need to either give up Hodgson or Schneider along with our 1st.

CBJ were rumored to have agreed to settle on Schneider + 1st and we turned it down because we didn't want to give up Schneider. We wanted to build a long-term sustainable model and the guys on here totally glazed management for not giving up futures.

The team slowly went down the drain with nobody to replace the production of our aging core.

I really don’t think they valued Schneider that much, they still had Mason who at the time was still well regarded as a 23 yr old. 2 years younger then Schneider.

 

[DFAC]

Zegras is a good shout. No way they would do a Boeser swap. They want prospects, it'll be Mynio or KK going the other way. Maybe you can convince them to take less (picks) since he's making 5.75M and it's not like Ducks are contending.

Can't see Zegras being a target... he's like the complete opposite of a Rick Tocchet player.

 

[LemonSauceD]

This struck me - what is the correlation between zegras' traits and exactly type of player mgmt is looking for

U26, center/wing, plays with pace, great teammate and locker room guy from all accounts, high work ethic, plays with some bite and edge. Has committed to working on his defensive game over the last year and my views on him changed when I did some digging myself on his lack of production. He is by far the best playmaker on the team. Hes been injured for a bit this year so I checked the last 30 Ducks games in which he’s played 107 minutes TTOI, and he leads the team 5 on 5 in CF% and FF%, 3rd in xGF, 5th in HDCF, and he’s only played a fraction of minutes (because of less GP) than his teammates above him. His notable linemates are contributing significantly less (Carlsson, Killorn, Strome). The team as a whole struggles to score goals. His shooting percentage is also lower compared to his two first full seasons but a tad bit higher from last season (only played 31 games last year).

All in all he checks:

Skill
Speed (his speed bursts are above average relative to the amount of games he’s played (32)
Playmaker
23-24 years old
Center/wing
uplifting locker room presence

He won’t be cheap but Verbeek is one of those kinda dumb GM’s. Been reported to have garnered a lot of interest and Verbeek hasn’t turned them away.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Yeah, they're just fans who didn't know better. Good thing management had excellent pro scouting and better sense. To be honest I would have been very tentative about the first myself, but Petterson is even better than I had thought. Admittedly it was costly but it was necessary to ensure we secured him. I'm hopefully confident they're not going to waste assets on short term mediocrity in the near future.

Rutherford confirmed they offered Zadorov what he wanted. He just chose to go to Boston instead.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Elias Lindholm the "negative value garbage cap dump nobody would take for free" according to some geniuses here, has One less goal and four less points than the constantly vehemently defended, chronically tendinitised 11.6 ...

Two of those "geniuses here" include the President and GM who explored trading him a second time prior to the deadline. Lindholm has been living off one fantastic season where he centered Tkachuk and Gaudreau for the last four years. He played well for us in the playoffs, but that's basically been it.

As for Pettersson. If three years from now he's still producing like this then sure, you can make this argument. It's beyond ridiculous to dismiss a 26 year old who is now confirmed to be dealing with tendinitis and assume he's damaged beyond repair.

Regardless, we don't even need to rely on the "geniuses here" to determine value. That comes from what other teams are willing to pay. We know Pettersson garnered the likes of Necas and Dobson. And it isn't like Carolina is known for stupid trades. Do you think either is offering Boston those players for Lindholm? No. Especially not without massive retention and other pieces.

In other word, Lindholm has negative value because nobody is willing to trade for him.

 

[StickShift]

Can't see Zegras being a target... he's like the complete opposite of a Rick Tocchet player.

People’s minds are gonna blow when they acquire both Brayden and Luke Schenn at the deadline.

 

[Fatass]

Can't see Zegras being a target... he's like the complete opposite of a Rick Tocchet player.

I wonder about Zegras. He obviously has elite skills that reflect a top six forward. He even has a bit of a pest in his play. He’s (maybe?) a risk worth taking because to cost to acquire would be cheap and there is a chance he plays to his potential under a coach who pushes him. Imo Tocchet is exactly the type of coach a guy like Zegras needs.

 

[Fatass]

U26, center/wing, plays with pace, great teammate and locker room guy from all accounts, high work ethic, plays with some bite and edge. Has committed to working on his defensive game over the last year and my views on him changed when I did some digging myself on his lack of production. He is by far the best playmaker on the team. Hes been injured for a bit this year so I checked the last 30 Ducks games in which he’s played 107 minutes TTOI, and he leads the team 5 on 5 in CF% and FF%, 3rd in xGF, 5th in HDCF, and he’s only played a fraction of minutes (because of less GP) than his teammates above him. His notable linemates are contributing significantly less (Carlsson, Killorn, Strome). The team as a whole struggles to score goals. His shooting percentage is also lower compared to his two first full seasons but a tad bit higher from last season (only played 31 games last year).

All in all he checks:

Skill
Speed (his speed bursts are above average relative to the amount of games he’s played (32)
Playmaker
23-24 years old
Center/wing
uplifting locker room presence

He won’t be cheap but Verbeek is one of those kinda dumb GM’s. Been reported to have garnered a lot of interest and Verbeek hasn’t turned them away.

Agreed on all accounts except: Zegras would be cheap. Something like Hoglander/Soucy + one of our good D prospects (not D Pettersson or Willander)
Would this be a TDL deal or more likely in the summer?

 

[Nucker42]

Zegras is a good shout. No way they would do a Boeser swap. They want prospects, it'll be Mynio or KK going the other way. Maybe you can convince them to take less (picks) since he's making 5.75M and it's not like Ducks are contending.

I like KK but he’s a bit redundant. I would do KK and a 2nd all day.

 

[I am toxic]

People’s minds are gonna blow when they acquire both Brayden and Luke Schenn at the deadline.

Two Schenn's in the hand are as good as three Petterson's in the bush

 

[Jerry the great]

Well the value of being patient here is that we gave up the value of most likely a top 15 pick.

If we go back to June of last year and asked Canucks fans who would they rather have… sign Zadorov at 6x$5M AAV or trade an expected mid-1st round pick for M-Petey and sign him for 6x$5.5M, I think the majority would pick Zadorov.

We also jettisoned two guys that were poor fits here and picked up O’Connor who needs to be re-signed, but looks like he could be a very good fit.

I liked Zadorov and was on board with extending him. But I’m not sure how much he really wanted to be here. He was on a podcast in the summer and brought up a conversation he and Lindholm had about both signing in Boston when they were in town to face the Bruins (Feb 8th 2024). We did eventually offer him the same deal he got there and he still chose them.

 

[TruGr1t]

Well the value of being patient here is that we gave up the value of most likely a top 15 pick.

If we go back to June of last year and asked Canucks fans who would they rather have… sign Zadorov at 6x$5M AAV or trade an expected mid-1st round pick for M-Petey and sign him for 6x$5.5M, I think the majority would pick Zadorov.

Zadorov was offered basically an equal contract with the Canucks and decided to sign in Boston for whatever reason. I guess you can criticize them for waiting to long to sign him, or not managing the relationship well, but I think you can also openly question whether he ever intended to sign in Vancouver or was just using them as leverage to go somewhere else.

Gift of hindsight etc., but given the extenuating circumstances I think the blueline has worked out quite well as of now.

 

[Nucker42]

Zadorov was offered basically an equal contract with the Canucks and decided to sign in Boston for whatever reason. I guess you can criticize them for waiting to long to sign him, or not managing the relationship well, but I think you can also openly question whether he ever intended to sign in Vancouver or was just using them as leverage to go somewhere else.

Gift of hindsight etc., but given the extenuating circumstances I think the blueline has worked out quite well as of now.

I agree. Zadorov brings some intangibles that Pettersson doesn’t bring but overall Pettersson is a better defensman.

I think you can find toughness for a lot closer to league minimum than 5+ million. Which I think the Canucks need, just not at Zadorovs cost.

 

[Jerry the great]

I'm not opposed to taking a flyer on Zegras, depending on the cost, but man this guys has some serious warts.

the only time he has been able to produce at the NHL level (2021-23) he was getting the easiest deployment in the league (okay...second easiest).....and he was still getting absolutely ventilated 5v5. All his share numbers were well below 50% despite 78% OZ starts (only Ovechkin had higher....2000 minutes or more). Now he's getting mid 50 OZ starts and his underlying numbers still suck and his production has fallen off a cliff.


Maybe Anaheim would entertain a swap of 2019 draft pick reclamation projects and Hoglander goes the other way.

Or Mynio and a 2nd.

I would absolutely not trade Kudryavtsev for him though. People are massively underrating this player.

Kudryavtsev is on a better development curve than 6th OA David Jiricek....and could probably be playing 3rd pairing minutes in the NHL right now and not look out of place. It's not totally unreasonable to think he could be a top 4 defender in a few years if the development continues, and until then having a guy on an ELC who can be shuttled back and fourth between Vancouver and Abbotsford is quite handy.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Can't see Zegras being a target... he's like the complete opposite of a Rick Tocchet player.

Again i don’t know if I really believe that.

He’s not a 27-30 year old fringe NHL’er/is what he is/one dimensional/helpless/undersized forward.

Hes 23 years old. He’s an offensive play driver. No different from someone like Barzal which gets thrown around quite a bit. He’s obviously not a 200ft player (Cozens isn’t remotely close either and is another name mentioned frequently). He’s no more prone to making mistakes than JT Miller was.

Tocchet has said many times he loves high character players that are communicative and talkative in the dressing room. Zegras isn’t some lazy and hopeless player. I’ve watched him quite a bit in recent times and have completely changed my perspective of him. The narrative that he’s a showboating, helpless, and a dumb hockey player that every fanbase seems to have conjured up is not even remotely close to the same sentiment that Ducks fans have and. Every shift he’s giving his 100%. He battles in corners, he forechecks, he’s surprisingly gritty, disrupting plays defensively, you can notice how much he’s matured his game and is focused on getting the small details right. His coach recently said he’s the hardest working player and the player he’s been impressed with the most.

People expecting every single player to be a fancy stats darling while being a 200ft physically imposing defensive stalwart at 23 aren’t being realistic. No team has a make up of all players like this.

 

[Rowlet]

25 year-old, second pairing Jack Johnson who was always a big minus player on a decent Kings team? Lots. The Kings had a better 1st than us, so we need to either give up Hodgson or Schneider along with our 1st.

CBJ were rumored to have agreed to settle on Schneider + 1st and we turned it down because we didn't want to give up Schneider. We wanted to build a long-term sustainable model and the guys on here totally glazed management for not giving up futures.

The team slowly went down the drain with nobody to replace the production of our aging core.

The Blue Jackets made deals to be competitive at the time, they just traded futures for Carter and wouldn't have wanted just futures. They wanted real NHLers

 

[andora]

U26, center/wing, plays with pace, great teammate and locker room guy from all accounts, high work ethic, plays with some bite and edge. Has committed to working on his defensive game over the last year and my views on him changed when I did some digging myself on his lack of production. He is by far the best playmaker on the team. Hes been injured for a bit this year so I checked the last 30 Ducks games in which he’s played 107 minutes TTOI, and he leads the team 5 on 5 in CF% and FF%, 3rd in xGF, 5th in HDCF, and he’s only played a fraction of minutes (because of less GP) than his teammates above him. His notable linemates are contributing significantly less (Carlsson, Killorn, Strome). The team as a whole struggles to score goals. His shooting percentage is also lower compared to his two first full seasons but a tad bit higher from last season (only played 31 games last year).

All in all he checks:

Skill
Speed (his speed bursts are above average relative to the amount of games he’s played (32)
Playmaker
23-24 years old
Center/wing
uplifting locker room presence

He won’t be cheap but Verbeek is one of those kinda dumb GM’s. Been reported to have garnered a lot of interest and Verbeek hasn’t turned them away.

How often are you watching him? Admittedly I don't watch him a ton but I got reaction where some of these descriptions are not quite how I view him life and has he changed a lot of his game this year

 

[theguardianII]

Again i don’t know if I really believe that.

He’s not a 27-30 year old fringe NHL’er/is what he is/one dimensional/helpless/undersized forward.

Hes 23 years old. He’s an offensive play driver. No different from someone like Barzal which gets thrown around quite a bit. He’s obviously not a 200ft player (Cozens isn’t remotely close either and is another name mentioned frequently). He’s no more prone to making mistakes than JT Miller was.

Tocchet has said many times he loves high character players that are communicative and talkative in the dressing room. Zegras isn’t some lazy and hopeless player. I’ve watched him quite a bit in recent times and have completely changed my perspective of him. The narrative that he’s a showboating, helpless, and a dumb hockey player that every fanbase seems to have conjured up is not even remotely close to the same sentiment that Ducks fans have and. Every shift he’s giving his 100%. He battles in corners, he forechecks, he’s surprisingly gritty, disrupting plays defensively, you can notice how much he’s matured his game and is focused on getting the small details right. His coach recently said he’s the hardest working player and the player he’s been impressed with the most.

People expecting every single player to be a fancy stats darling while being a 200ft physically imposing defensive stalwart at 23 aren’t being realistic. No team has a make up of all players like this.

There does seem to be a limit on "high" character with Tocchet. As long as you do as he says you're good.

I await to see what Allvin does. What plan going forward. This team isn't contending for a cup that is for sure. And next year isn't any better as other teams take their next step up.

This is not a young team most have hit their peaks and are close to the downside of the curve. There are a lot of players getting closer to 30.
You might say that right now they are the best they will ever be on average.

Zegras, Cozens, Chytil, are not #1C's super star players but they might be able to fill in as a committee.
Right now any of them is an upgrade on Pettersson's game. Allvin I think has already decided that EP goes, IMO he did that when he belittled him in his interview where he said he had to grow up, he had to learn to get better. That kind of says he knows EP isn't playing good enough for the contract. The Miller stuff while real was also a smoke screen, an excuse to give EP more time.

Allvin might not trade him at the TDL and wait to see if he has a revival but the longer Allvin waits without tangible improvement the less the return in any trade. Right now poor play could be put on the locker room stuff, part of it anyway. But not if he continues as he has 2 pts in the last 5 games and one of those was a PP pt, 6 shots on goal and having most of the PP time. He didn't look great in the 4 nations either in game one.

 

[Bobby9]

You are in the deep end man. All alone and you can't swim.

As bad as EP40 has been this year, he would still return an 'Eichel like' return based on his talent and pedigree.
Lindholm is an aging and negative value asset on his twilight retirement contract.
Comparing the two just shows how out of touch you are on the subject.

Yeah. I disagree. Rumours are rumours. Until he returns an Eichel like return we can only guess what it would be.

At shy of 12M and on track for 50 points, a history of drama and with a knee made of Swiss cheese I think it’s a bit lower than that.

Maybe similar to what Lindholm got from us.

This is looking guardianesque.

I mean with how much 11.6 is disappointing you would you make those deals from sjs or chi point of view? And why?

Your critique and ideas dont match

Sorry. I do not know what Guradianesque means.

Yes. You are correct. The trades I made would be heavily in our favour. I actually don’t think we would get those.

 

[TruGr1t]

People’s minds are gonna blow when they acquire both Brayden and Luke Schenn at the deadline.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

After Necas was traded to Colorado I finally saw what everybody else saw, Necas is somebody I would be after if Colorado was willing to move him
Otherwise if we have a competent enough defense I’m good with Zegras he’s honestly no worse than Miller when he coasted around without the puck, there could be a fit for him ( maybe not with tocchet )
I don’t know what it is but Paterka is my guy

 

[iceburg]

People’s minds are gonna blow when they acquire both Brayden and Luke Schenn at the deadline.

I hadn't really thought of it but I would be all over this if it's a possibility.

DeBrusk-Pettersson-Hoglander?
Suter-Chytil-Boeser
Joshua-Schenn-Garland
O'Connor-Blueger-Sherwood

Hughes-Hronek
M.Petersson-Meyers
Forbort-Schenn

I would be very happy to see that line-up enter the playoffs. That third line may even be the top line. That 4th line would be nasty.

 

[andora]

Yeah. I disagree. Rumours are rumours. Until he returns an Eichel like return we can only guess what it would be.

At shy of 12M and on track for 50 points, a history of drama and with a knee made of Swiss cheese I think it’s a bit lower than that.

Maybe similar to what Lindholm got from us.


Sorry. I do not know what Guradianesque means.

Yes. You are correct. The trades I made would be heavily in our favour. I actually don’t think we would get those.

Its a poster who types a lot but its ramblings.

 

[Bobby9]

Its a poster who types a lot but its ramblings.

24,000 posts. Lol.