Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Off-Season Edition | Not satisfied, so now what?

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Last one was over 1,000. Continue here.

Vector, here, I've taken over this original post. Here's the link to my spreadsheet. Contains regularly updated capspace totals, projected rosters, and UFA & RFA lists with AFP's contract projections.

Click to read more...

 

[Bleach Clean]

He was injured in the first round, see the video of him limping badly after game 2 or 3? No shit he was chasing the play, and despite that he was still one of our best players. Hes what every team wants in the mix and he will be at the bare minimum worth his contract at 3M and Id offer him up to 4

He would be overpaid at $4m. We are talking about a player negotiating under team control, not UFA. Not yet. Within that context, he needs to provide value over and above UFA prices. If he does not, then the cost of replacement is level, at which point hold onto the money and get an elite player in FA. That's the decision point. Either he provides value, or he's gone.

And noted about the injury, it's fine. I just don't agree with people saying he was OK at worst -- When that quite clearly was not the case.

Edit: With the line-up I've posted above, he fits along with more necessary pieces. It can work.

 

[bossram]

I think we can make the playoffs without Joshua on the third line. I am not sure that we can make the playoffs with Pettersson centreing Mikeyev and Hoglander, or whatever.

They made the playoffs this year with Petey doing this for most of the season.

 

[pitseleh]

I think we can make the playoffs without Joshua on the third line. I am not sure that we can make the playoffs with Pettersson centreing Mikeyev and Hoglander, or whatever.

Agreed, though if they can’t sign Guentzel or Reinhart (or pull a rabbit out of a hat and trade for someone like Tkachuk), Joshua might be the next best option.

 

[Hodgy]

They need two (and maybe 3) top-6 wingers. They can't afford two top-6 wingers.

Their literal best option for that 2nd top-6 winger is the guy who played like a top-6 winger internally this year and produced like a top-6 winger and can be signed WAY cheaper than the top-6 wingers available on the UFA market.

Like I said, if you can afford Joshua after signing Guentzel, or trading for or signing a player like Guentzel, and you sort of the defense (i.e., sign or replace Hronek) then I'd definitely look to bring back Joshua but in the context of comparing him to whoever we are looking to bring back on defense or add (personally, if the contract is reasonable, I'd prefer Zadorov but I've flip flopped on this).

They made the playoffs this year with Petey doing this for most of the season.

I don't know the answer to this, but would they have made it playing as they did from the trade deadline on? It would seem to me, from a points percentage, we were far better from October to January when Petey wasn't playing like that and had Kuzmenko, then after. But my point isn't that it is impossible or anything, just that I see not having Joshua on the third line as less of an impact to our playoff hopes.

 

[bossram]

I don't know the answer to this, but would they have made it playing as they did from the trade deadline on? It would seem to me, from a points percentage, we were far better from October to January when Petey wasn't playing like that and had Kuzmenko, then after. But my point isn't that it is impossible or anything, just that I see not having Joshua on the third line as less of an impact to our playoff hopes.

Kuzmenko was dumped to the 4th line or scratched half the time.

The "third line" was also responsible for a lot of the early-season wins.

 

[theguardianII]

that's not how LTIR works. you just get to omit poolman from the roster basically. you don't get to exceed the cap unless you also include poolman's salary in your total

then how is this possible?

• If a team cannot be cap compliant on opening day without using LTIR, the LTIR Pool is the amount the team exceeds the Cap. For example, if a team is $3M over the Cap and places a player on LTIR with a $4M Cap Hit for the opening roster submission, the LTIR Pool is the $3M that the team exceeded the cap

 

[credulous]

then how is this possible?

• If a team cannot be cap compliant on opening day without using LTIR, the LTIR Pool is the amount the team exceeds the Cap. For example, if a team is $3M over the Cap and places a player on LTIR with a $4M Cap Hit for the opening roster submission, the LTIR Pool is the $3M that the team exceeded the cap

if the cap is 90m and the canucks have 92.5m in salaries on the roster they can move poolman and his 2.5m to LTIR to be cap compliant. you can't put poolman on LTIR and then add another 2.5m in salary **unless** you were cap compliant before you put poolman on LTIR

all that paragraph is saying is that if you are 1m under the cap and you put a 4m aav player on LTIR you can only use 3m in LTIR. you can't sign a player to a 1m deal and then another to a 4m deal to replace the LTIRed player. you can only use 4m of cap space with a 4m cap player on LTIR if you're over the cap at all

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Definitely think adding a top 6 forward should be the top priority this summer. Someone who can pop in 30+ and make Petey line more dangerous.

Canucks were 5-1 in the playoffs when scoring 3+ goals. We just need to ice a roster capable of regularly hitting 3+ in the playoffs because it's almost an automatic win with a healthy Demko.

 

[ziploc]

Definitely think adding a top 6 forward should be the top priority this summer. Someone who can pop in 30+ and make Petey line more dangerous.

Canucks were 5-1 in the playoffs when scoring 3+ goals. We just need to ice a roster capable of regularly hitting 3+ in the playoffs because it's almost an automatic win with a healthy Demko.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Something I've encountered while messing around with this line-up:

1. If Guentzel is signed, and Joshua is re-signed, then Mikheyev has to be dealt. If not, there's no money for the defense.

2. Given the unusual availability of RHDs in this FA class, they have to capitalize on that front somehow.

3. If Mikheyev is on the roster, then that means budget options for 1LW and 3/4 RHD.

4. It's very difficult penciling in Joshua-Garland on the 3rd line while trying to get better in the top6. Either they both graduate to the top6 next year, assuming Joshua is re-signed, or you have to start thinking trade for both even if it's just to repurpose the money.

5. Given that Joshua, Myers, Hronek and Blueger have to be signed first, it certainly limits the dollar figures they can offer to Guentzel or Tanev in FA.

A possibility?

I'm low on the AAV for Tanev and Guentzel, I know.



View attachment 877138

 

[Hodgy]

Kuzmenko was dumped to the 4th line or scratched half the time.

The "third line" was also responsible for a lot of the early-season wins.

Sure, but we had Mikheyev scoring more than he probably deserved at the beginning of the year, and Hoglander was really streaky, and Pettersson as the season went on basically proved he couldn't sustain the first half of the year production. Of course if you want to excuse that decline in production as being predominantly the result of a knee injury, and that Pettersson can be a 90-100 point centre with Hoglander and Mikyehev or whatever, then OK. I don't really like the prospects of that and think are far better off adding a top end winger then keeping Joshua.

 

[theguardianII]

Kuzmenko was dumped to the 4th line or scratched half the time.

The "third line" was also responsible for a lot of the early-season wins.

Kuzmenko out scored Pettersson after the trade, even when playing with Vancouver and playing 3rd, 4th lines and 10 minutes a game, his numbers were better than EP's last 3 months numbers. I am trying to say Kuz's 1rst half numbers with the Canucks were better than EP's after the all star game and that was with half the ice time.

Isn't it so strange for the team to have almost 27 million in cap space and have such flexibility.

Soon the league will announce the new cap limits. That will make a huge difference.

Allvin/Rutherford have to plan for the two years of 4.75 mil OEL cap hits and Hughes/Demko contracts.
IMO if they can get the contracts running through those years then cap increases will/can make up the needed space.

So much talk about stripping down the defence and trying to find a winger for Pettersson.
IF Pettersson had played up to 50% of his potential they may still be playing. Going from 1.28 pts per game to the playoffs at 0.46 pts per game, not even 50%

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Doubtful they would move him but I'd inquire about Farabee.

Signed LT @ $5M/yr. Can play either wing.

Some have mentioned before, but depending on the price, I'd look at Perron. Middle 6 winger who can still produce.

 

[bossram]

Kuzmenko out scored Pettersson after the trade, even when playing with Vancouver and playing 3rd, 4th lines and 10 minutes a game, his numbers were better than EP's last 3 months numbers. I am trying to say Kuz's 1rst half numbers with the Canucks were better than EP's after the all star game and that was with half the ice time.

Isn't it so strange for the team to have almost 27 million in cap space and have such flexibility.

Soon the league will announce the new cap limits. That will make a huge difference.

Allvin/Rutherford have to plan for the two years of 4.75 mil OEL cap hits and Hughes/Demko contracts.
IMO if they can get the contracts running through those years then cap increases will/can make up the needed space.

So much talk about stripping down the defence and trying to find a winger for Pettersson.
IF Pettersson had played up to 50% of his potential they may still be playing. Going from 1.28 pts per game to the playoffs at 0.46 pts per game, not even 50%

I don't really know what you're trying to say in response to a banal post about Petey not playing with Kuzmenko a ton last season.

Sure, but we had Mikheyev scoring more than he probably deserved at the beginning of the year, and Hoglander was really streaky, and Pettersson as the season went on basically proved he couldn't sustain the first half of the year production. Of course if you want to excuse that decline in production as being predominantly the result of a knee injury, and that Pettersson can be a 90-100 point centre with Hoglander and Mikyehev or whatever, then OK. I don't really like the prospects of that and think are far better off adding a top end winger then keeping Joshua.

They need to add a top-six forward in addition to the likes of Garland/Joshua.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

They made the playoffs this year with Petey doing this for most of the season.

We’re going to have a worse roster next season just from losing some UFAs due to cap.

 

[theguardianII]

Something I've encountered while messing around with this line-up:

1. If Guentzel is signed, and Joshua is re-signed, then Mikheyev has to be dealt. If not, there's no money for the defense.

2. Given the unusual availability of RHDs in this FA class, they have to capitalize on that front somehow.

3. If Mikheyev is on the roster, then that means budget options for 1LW and 3/4 RHD.

4. It's very difficult penciling in Joshua-Garland on the 3rd line while trying to get better in the top6. Either they both graduate to the top6 next year, assuming Joshua is re-signed, or you have to start thinking trade for both even if it's just to repurpose the money.

5. Given that Joshua, Myers, Hronek and Blueger have to be signed first, it certainly limits the dollar figures they can offer to Guentzel or Tanev in FA.

Teams build from the back out. Good defence is easier to play consistently than scoring 4 goals a game.

I don't think there should be too much panic about trying so hard to find more scoring at forward IF Pettersson plays to his regular level.

Defence wins championships, Canucks have a franchise goalie in Demko and he didn't play in the playoffs. The team got to game 7 with a third string goalie, a good one but still not Demko.

Dillion, Tanev or any other 33/34 yr old defenceman will be bottom 6 in another year, so a stop gap player or long term rental.

They can keep the entire defence and just replace Cole with Dillion for the slightly more money, cap hit. Leaving around 10 million for a foward(s).
Sign Dillion for 2 years and when his cap hit leaves add it to Hughes, then find more giants to play with Zadorov and Soucy because Myers is probably retired right around then.

 

[bossram]

We’re going to have a worse roster next season just from losing some UFAs due to cap.

So....they shouldn't try to make the playoffs next year? I don't get what your point is.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

That's fine if you want to make the argument +Guentzel but -Garland/Joshua is a better overall mix. I don't really agree, but it's reasonable.

What I'm arguing is that people are minimizing the negative impact by saying the Canucks are only losing "depth" or "3rd liners". This is literally not true. These guys played like top-six players, and that is the impact you lose.

On the other hand, producing like top six players while playing bottom 6 minutes and getting more favourable matchups (not facing the other team’s top defensive pairings and forwards) is not the same thing as being as good as a solid top 6 forward. Like I said, I’m agnostic but there is an argument for trading Garland (and perhaps using those assets received to dump Mikheyev), acquiring a great top 6 forward like Reinhart/Guentzel, and bumping down a player like Suter or Hoglander into the bottom 6.

 

[theguardianII]

I don't really know what you're trying to say in response to a banal post about Petey not playing with Kuzmenko a ton last season.

Just trying to say IF Petey played up to his potential in the playoffs or after the all star game.
It is that poor play that has the panic on to find another scoring FA. Maybe Lekkerimaki makes a step or Karlsson.

There is lots of cap space this year, loads. And potential to create more.
There is no need to rebuild the defence again.

Besides Tocchet likes really big guys on defence. And these guys developed chemistry.

As it is 6 forwards will be moving, nobody dismantles a 105 point team or one that is finally gelling into a contender.

They will not get Hronek back, if they do it will be for one year and then he is a FA after arbitration

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

So....they shouldn't try to make the playoffs next year? I don't get what your point is.

That was certainly not my point. You said that the team made the playoffs with Hoglander and Mikheyev as Pettersson’s wingers. I’m saying we appear to have an overall worse roster next season for a number of reasons, so your assumption that last season succeeded so next season we can do the same thing is not sound logic as our roster likely won’t be as deep.

 

[Nucker101]

If Brady Tkachuk is available, you kind of have to go all in on him, right?

Yes. I’d also be more interested in Ehlers than Necas(but the playoff stats do worry me).

 

[Nuckles]

Speaking of depth or the lack thereof,
Good-bye Jett Woo, we hardly knew ya.


View attachment 877125

This might just be a nothingburger

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795922198072537310

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795922911074877736

 

[bossram]

On the other hand, producing like top six players while playing bottom 6 minutes and getting more favourable matchups (not facing the other team’s top defensive pairings and forwards) is not the same thing as being as good as a solid top 6 forward. Like I said, I’m agnostic but there is an argument for trading Garland (and perhaps using those assets received to dump Mikheyev), acquiring a great top 6 forward like Reinhart/Guentzel, and bumping down a player like Suter or Hoglander into the bottom 6.

Garland played top-six minutes at ES all season and in the playoffs. Again, there is this mass confusion that Garland was a "3rd liner" or "depth" because his nominal line was third on the line chart. He performed like a 1st calibre player at ES and Tocc deployed him like a top-six player. In terms of competition, pretty much Miller/Boeser got the toughs and everyone else had a roughly equal distribution of "elite", "middle", and "gritensity" levels of comp (besides Aman who was heavily sheltered).

And then Joshua's usage also went up in the playoffs, to top-six ice-time. In addition to his already-stated top-six production. These were top-six players for the club. This is indisputable at this point.

Like I said before, Guentzel-in and Garland/Joshua-out is a defensible argument. I don't exactly subscribe to it, but it's reasonable. What is unreasonable to is to say jetissoning a guy like Garland means they're not losing a top-six calibre player. That's simply false.

And if you lose both of Joshua/Garland and add a Guentzel, you still can't "bump down" one of Hoglander or Suter. You still need them in the top-six because there's no one else to play there:

Suter - Miller - Boeser
Guentzel - Petey - Hoglander

And then there's basically no third line at all.

 

[theguardianII]

if the cap is 90m and the canucks have 92.5m in salaries on the roster they can move poolman and his 2.5m to LTIR to be cap compliant. you can't put poolman on LTIR and then add another 2.5m in salary **unless** you were cap compliant before you put poolman on LTIR

all that paragraph is saying is that if you are 1m under the cap and you put a 4m aav player on LTIR you can only use 3m in LTIR. you can't sign a player to a 1m deal and then another to a 4m deal to replace the LTIRed player. you can only use 4m of cap space with a 4m cap player on LTIR if you're over the cap at all

Okay, Poolman is on LTIR. His cap hit is 2.5 million. So they get to over the cap by 2.5 million.

For example, if a player with a $4M Cap Hit goes on LTIR when the team has $100K of Cap Space, the LTIR pool is $3.9M ($4M-$0.1M). Because of this, team’s often make several roster moves right before a player goes on LTIR in order to be as close to the cap as possible, in order to maximize the LTIR Pool

This sounds a little of what several teams do every year, just keep adding players or designating one player and sign the rest as the LTIR replacement.

Delay signing one player
Having players sent to the AHL before the start date then recalled.
So they might be able to put Boeser on LTIR due to "conditioning after blood clots" for the first 10 games or Demko who might have only played 5 games over those 10 games.

Seems all teams somehow get under the cap by the start of the season even if they have to trade for LTIR player to do so. Pretty sure Vegas was well over the cap at the start of last season.

Oh well we will see. This was only a fantasy anyway.

 

[bossram]

Just trying to say IF Petey played up to his potential in the playoffs or after the all star game.
It is that poor play that has the panic on to find another scoring FA. Maybe Lekkerimaki makes a step or Karlsson.

There is lots of cap space this year, loads. And potential to create more.
There is no need to rebuild the defence again.

Besides Tocchet likes really big guys on defence. And these guys developed chemistry.

As it is 6 forwards will be moving, nobody dismantles a 105 point team or one that is finally gelling into a contender.

They will not get Hronek back, if they do it will be for one year and then he is a FA after arbitration

I honestly can't understand what you're saying. In the same post, you're saying there is no need to rebuild the defence again, but then say Hronek won't be back. Very contradictory (and that's ignoring you saying they go the arbitration route, which is the worst possible option).

And then you say 6 forwards will be moving, but no one dismantles a 105 point team. So uh...which is it? Are they bringing back the same team or not?

That was certainly not my point. You said that the team made the playoffs with Hoglander and Mikheyev as Pettersson’s wingers. I’m saying we appear to have an overall worse roster next season for a number of reasons, so your assumption that last season succeeded so next season we can do the same thing is not sound logic as our roster likely won’t be as deep.

Sure, but the solution from you and others is to gut the depth.