Canucks Managerial Thread | Part 19 | Maybe we are in on Tallon, maybe not? *Post #61

[Hit the post]

And Vrbata.. 12g, disinterested and injured going to the TDL... gave 5 team list that apparently included non-playoff teams screwing over Benning's ability to move him for any value IF there were even interested parties in the first place.

Maybe if Willie didn't use our foundation center with the Sedins earlier in the season in place of Vrbata.....(the guy he dealt for Sutter was pretty much the only other player on the team he had any type of chemistry with).

 

[y2kcanucks]

But you mentioned shedding our vets for picks... who?
No one was biting on the players we had.

Our trade deadline was a disaster because our 2 pending UFA's played so damn poorly.
Hamhuis was a trainwreck and then was injured for weeks. Going into the injury and looking at the timetable for his return, it was easy to predict (and i did at the time) he would have no value to other teams and would go untraded.
His play upon return was good and gave me a glimmer of hope he would garner some value... but other teams also have pro scouts looking at the bigger sample and didn't bite on his 10 game sample of good games.
Hamhuis had a brutal season and came with $4.5 mil cap hit. Hamhuis carried NO value based on his play prior to his injury. Moving Hamhuis early wasn't option for Benning... no one was gonna touch him early.

And Vrbata.. 12g, disinterested and injured going to the TDL... gave 5 team list that apparently included non-playoff teams screwing over Benning's ability to move him for any value IF there were even interested parties in the first place.

Higgins? Prust?... well no.

But but but, I thought when we acquired Prust people said we could get at least a 4th round pick for him at the deadline. What happened to that?

Again, we got nothing for Hamhuis because Benning began the process early. There were reports that Chicago was interested and Dallas was interested. Even reports that some teams in the East were interested, and maybe with some extra time to think about it after being asked Hamhuis may have been more welcoming to a move out East.

You can't tell me that Roman Polak was worth more than Dan Hamhuis.

Hansen is another guy we should be looking to sell high on.

Regarding any other veterans...I guess this is a symptom of Benning destroying this team by bringing in too much garbage, eh?

 

[Hit the post]

You can't tell me that Roman Polak was worth more than Dan Hamhuis.

Justin Schultz was worth more than Dan Hamhuis (NTC or no NTC).

Want to play in a poker game with Jimbo.

 

[Peter10]

Speaking of Tallon, just a few days i read somewhere that he actually asked the Panthers about the possibility to move into a different role to start a transition for his retirement in a few years. So maybe they just promoted Rowe a bit earlier than it was planned.

Honestly though, I am not really sure what to make out of this.

 

[coldsteel79]

But but but, I thought when we acquired Prust people said we could get at least a 4th round pick for him at the deadline. What happened to that?

Again, we got nothing for Hamhuis because Benning began the process early. There were reports that Chicago was interested and Dallas was interested. Even reports that some teams in the East were interested, and maybe with some extra time to think about it after being asked Hamhuis may have been more welcoming to a move out East.

You can't tell me that Roman Polak was worth more than Dan Hamhuis.

Hansen is another guy we should be looking to sell high on.

Regarding any other veterans...I guess this is a symptom of Benning destroying this team by bringing in too much garbage, eh?

If prust didn't injure his ankle he probably would have a garnered a fourth, he was playing well prior to the injury. Was watching hockey wives last night and apparently he rushed back from his injury and reinjured shortly after coming back.

 

[DL44]

But but but, I thought when we acquired Prust people said we could get at least a 4th round pick for him at the deadline. What happened to that?

Again, we got nothing for Hamhuis because Benning began the process early. There were reports that Chicago was interested and Dallas was interested. Even reports that some teams in the East were interested, and maybe with some extra time to think about it after being asked Hamhuis may have been more welcoming to a move out East.

You can't tell me that Roman Polak was worth more than Dan Hamhuis.

Hansen is another guy we should be looking to sell high on.

Regarding any other veterans...I guess this is a symptom of Benning destroying this team by bringing in too much garbage, eh?

Those reports were media speculation from looking around at the contenders and seeing who needed a dman.

Hamhuis was injured in early Dec and didn't return till Feb... I guy like Polak could easily be viewed as more valuable by any team depending on their needs... If they have a D that is already mobile, and good transitioning but needed to getting tougher to play against in their own zone... then yes, it's conceivable they'll find more value in Polak than Hamhuis.

You take a very a black and white approach when simply it's anything but...

 

[y2kcanucks]

If prust didn't injure his ankle he probably would have a garnered a fourth, he was playing well prior to the injury. Was watching hockey wives last night and apparently he rushed back from his injury and reinjured shortly after coming back.

Prust was a terrible and useless acquisition. Another example of Benning's idiocy.

 

[coldsteel79]

Prust was a terrible and useless acquisition. Another example of Benning's idiocy.

Before his injury he played well.

 

[DL44]

If prust didn't injure his ankle he probably would have a garnered a fourth, he was playing well prior to the injury.

Was very unfortunate...
Prust had a very good start to the season. Had surprisingly good vision and passing ability and that Prust-Cracknell-Dorsett had a solid start to the season.

Then was useless after his return.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Before his injury he played well.

For what, 5 games? He was a stupid acquisition.

 

[coldsteel79]

Was very unfortunate...
Prust had a very good start to the season. Had surprisingly good vision and passing ability and that Prust-Cracknell-Dorsett had a solid start to the season.

Then was useless after his return.

A lot of mccans early success was because of prust. He played well as a 3rd/4th liner prior to his injury, after his injury he was trash.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Was very unfortunate...
Prust had a very good start to the season. Had surprisingly good vision and passing ability and that Prust-Cracknell-Dorsett had a solid start to the season.

Then was useless after his return.

Prust seemed to have something going with McCann early as well...

 

[DL44]

Prust seemed to have something going with McCann early as well...

Yeah that's right.. that was early season shuffle...

Prust- Cracknell/McCann-Dorsett

 

[Jay Cee]

Hmmm so Florida's new owners hire some analytics guys (former Canucks army bloggers), enjoy their most successful season basically ever, and now there's rumours they're pushing Tallon out. Why would we want him, exactly? His reputation around here was basically as low as it could possibly get, as recently as a year ago. Florida is obviously going in a modern, analytics-inclined direction, and Tallon... is not that kind of guy. I don't want to see him here. But Friedman reporting it twice makes me think there must be something to it.

So, ownership isn't happy with the front office and wants to make changes... we as fans must now face the inevitable Benning endgame: the owner is quite likely to hire another moron to replace our current moron. Damn.

What a bizarre post.

- Florida has the same owner they have had for the last 3 years.

- Tallon's fingerprints are almost solely over the Panthers' resurgence as a team. I don't like the entire composition of his team, but he has drafted very well as well and the key veteran are players he acquired.

- You talk like the analytics guy is the GM. 60 year old Tom Rowe is their new GM. I don't know how much of a analytics guy he is, but he is certainly not the new blood, new age hockey guy you are making him out to be. He has had as old school of a path to the GM job as anyone.

I would have mixed feelings about us getting Tallon but I think he is a good hockey guy and better than what we have currently and this is his team. 100%

 

[Hit the post]

What a bizarre post.

- Florida has the same owner they have had for the last 3 years.

- Tallon's fingerprints are almost solely over the Panthers' resurgence as a team. I don't like the entire composition of his team, but he has drafted very well as well and the key veteran are players he acquired.

- You talk like the analytics guy is the GM. 60 year old Tom Rowe is their new GM. I don't know how much of a analytics guy he is, but he is certainly not the new blood, new age hockey guy you are making him out to be. He has had as old school of a path to the GM job as anyone.

I would have mixed feelings about us getting Tallon but I think he is a good hockey guy and better than what we have currently and this is his team. 100%

To be fair, he got lucky when Gilligan let Luongo fall right into his lap.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

What a bizarre post.

- Florida has the same owner they have had for the last 3 years.

- Tallon's fingerprints are almost solely over the Panthers' resurgence as a team. I don't like the entire composition of his team, but he has drafted very well as well and the key veteran are players he acquired.

- You talk like the analytics guy is the GM. 60 year old Tom Rowe is their new GM. I don't know how much of a analytics guy he is, but he is certainly not the new blood, new age hockey guy you are making him out to be. He has had as old school of a path to the GM job as anyone.

I would have mixed feelings about us getting Tallon but I think he is a good hockey guy and better than what we have currently.

3 years seems like enough time to figure out what you have and start to rebuild it, if you think it's necessary? Why, it almost seems prudent to do that! you could go the Benning route and just start giving away anybody connected with the old regime as well. I guess that's another way. Yes, Tallon's fingerprints are all over the team. He was the GM, so I hope that's the case. The team took the next step this year, and a lot of the credit went to analytics. There was a rash of stories, including this one and this one, trumpeting the new direction. There was a post (can't find it now) detailing the changes they made early in the season to their defensive pairings, a decision which was analytics-based.

I don't think anybody has ever called Tallon a cutting-edge guy. He's not a stats guy. It's not hard to see this as the team moving in a new direction and Tallon paying the price.

 

[Nucker101]

I'll take Tallon over Benning please. Not going to get my hopes up though.

 

[tantalum]

To be fair, he got lucky when Gilligan let Luongo fall right into his lap.

Lucky that Luongo would really only consider one team for the first year of his trade demand and then the CBA changed making him nearly worthless etc etc etc. The luck also came with the ownership change. Tallon wanted Luongo much sooner than he got him but the prior ownership would not approve taking on the contract. The new ownership did so gladly and the deal was made. I'm nearly certain at the press conference for that trade that Tallon mentioned it was only possible because of the new owners that he could now make the deal.

 

[DL44]

3 years seems like enough time to figure out what you have and start to rebuild it, if you think it's necessary? Why, it almost seems prudent to do that! you could go the Benning route and just start giving away anybody connected with the old regime as well. I guess that's another way. Yes, Tallon's fingerprints are all over the team. He was the GM, so I hope that's the case. The team took the next step this year, and a lot of the credit went to analytics. There was a rash of stories, including this one and this one, trumpeting the new direction. There was a post (can't find it now) detailing the changes they made early in the season to their defensive pairings, a decision which was analytics-based.

I don't think anybody has ever called Tallon a cutting-edge guy. He's not a stats guy. It's not hard to see this as the team moving in a new direction and Tallon paying the price.

The first link you posted was all about ignoring new analytics... not trumpeting a new approach.
The second one does.. despite also curtailing expectations of the long term role of analytics in the same article.

I think you are overblowing the 'new direction' aspect. Analytics is more of an addition of a tool than a new direction changing philosophy.

 

[racerjoe]

I would welcome Tallon, but really I want a bigger change. I do see it as a good sign we could lose this management team sooner than some expected. I still think they are gone next offseason.

 

[Zaddy91]

Prust was a terrible and useless acquisition. Another example of Benning's idiocy.

Better than the plug we jettisoned

 

[VanillaCoke]

It's only a matter of how many laughable things happen before opening day next season.

I'm guessing more than 5.

 

[DL44]

I would welcome Tallon, but really I want a bigger change. I do see it as a good sign we could lose this management team sooner than some expected. I still think they are gone next offseason.

I think they've sold ownership of their plan that runs to through the offseason of 2017 (based on how the team's contracts are structured).
Th earliest i see them gone is 2018... and that's only if the team fails to execute in the 17-18 season having 2 more offseasons worth of transactions and development.

 

[Ryp37]

It's only a matter of how many laughable things happen before opening day next season.

I'm guessing more than 5.

Yeah should get a pool going

 

[Peter10]

I think they've sold ownership of their plan that runs to through the offseason of 2017 (based on how the team's contracts are structured).
Th earliest i see them gone is 2018... and that's only if the team fails to execute in the 17-18 season having 2 more offseasons worth of transactions and development.

I am not sure I can take another 2 years of this. I will have probably turned into a grumpy old man by that.