Canucks Management and Ownership Thread v30.0 (Post #186)

[PG Canuck]

Damn, I need to up my squint game.

It showed it later on where it was much clearer.

 

[Intoewsables]

'One' with the spelling mistake? Pittsbugh's defense contains 'Depres' and 'Matta'.

Toronto has 'Lupal', Detroit has 'Jurko', Columbus has 'Tuytin', Philidelphia has 'MacDonad'...

His comment about having to flip from team to team on the computer was better though. I don't think he knows about browser tabs. I'm so glad that video got re-posted because it's an absolute gold mine.

 

[clunk]

How is Willie not fired yet?

 

[clunk]

He spelled 'McDonald' as 'McDonad"

 

[Nuckles]

How is Willie not fired yet?

Breaking news! Bad management makes bad decisions.

 

[RandV]

Toronto has 'Lupal', Detroit has 'Jurko', Columbus has 'Tuytin', Philidelphia has 'MacDonad'...

His comment about having to flip from team to team on the computer was better though. I don't think he knows about browser tabs. I'm so glad that video got re-posted because it's an absolute gold mine.

To be fair if you're writing every teams lineup by hand onto a whiteboard there's bound to be a few typo's. The whole idea is still pretty backwards in today's digital age, but I'm not going to call anything into question from a few typo's

 

[CpatainCanuck]

There has been a lot of talk about the "Vancouver fanbase being unable to stomach a rebuild". However, the Canucks are en route to a 2nd straight bottom 4 finish as it is. With the results unable to get much worse, surely the fanbase would be more supportive of multiple losing seasons if there was at least a plan in place and hope for the future?

 

[mathonwy]

There has been a lot of talk about the "Vancouver fanbase being unable to stomach a rebuild". However, the Canucks are en route to a 2nd straight bottom 4 finish as it is. With the results unable to get much worse, surely the fanbase would be more supportive of multiple losing seasons when there was at least a plan in place and hope for the future?

There's a plan???

Can you tell me what it is please.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

There's a plan???

Can you tell me what it is please.

I just said their wasn't a plan. Fans would be more supportive if the canucks committed to a rebuild.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Can't make out Winnipeg in the video; don't know what colour Kane is in

Would also love to know what this poster says

 

[ProstheticConscience]

There has been a lot of talk about the "Vancouver fanbase being unable to stomach a rebuild". However, the Canucks are en route to a 2nd straight bottom 4 finish as it is. With the results unable to get much worse, surely the fanbase would be more supportive of multiple losing seasons when there was at least a plan in place and hope for the future?

It's just the same old deflecting **** that's become this regime's hallmark.

The fans won't tolerate a rebuild!
The owners won't tolerate a rebuild!
Gillis didn't draft well!
It's harder to develop talent in the west than the east!

The team's crap and it's everyone else's fault but Benning's and Linden's. So sick of it. No, we won't tolerate a rebuild, so give us years of crap teams with no hope of ever improving because we're such terrible fans we won't let the management think and plan long-term! The easy, cowardly excuse trotted out over and over.

If Lindenningbrod didn't suck spectacularly at their jobs, there'd be no blame to deflect.

 

[valkynax]

It's just the same old deflecting **** that's become this regime's hallmark.

The fans won't tolerate a rebuild!
The owners won't tolerate a rebuild!
Gillis didn't draft well!
It's harder to develop talent in the west than the east!

The team's crap and it's everyone else's fault but Benning's and Linden's. So sick of it. No, we won't tolerate a rebuild, so give us years of crap teams with no hope of ever improving because we're such terrible fans we won't let the management think and plan long-term! The easy, cowardly excuse trotted out over and over.

If Lindenningbrod didn't suck spectacularly at their jobs, there'd be no blame to deflect.

Agreed.

Canucks fan cannot tolerate a build is a load of Brahmin s**t. Benning and his posse are so supremely arrogant and delusional to the point where I'd happily admit these lunatics to a mental ward.

Right now I do like where the team's going - if we keep WD, the tank will be strong; if we fire WD, Benning's head will be on a rusty pike soon after.

 

[Zaddy91]

It's just the same old deflecting **** that's become this regime's hallmark.

The fans won't tolerate a rebuild!
The owners won't tolerate a rebuild!
Gillis didn't draft well!
It's harder to develop talent in the west than the east!

The team's crap and it's everyone else's fault but Benning's and Linden's. So sick of it. No, we won't tolerate a rebuild, so give us years of crap teams with no hope of ever improving because we're such terrible fans we won't let the management think and plan long-term! The easy, cowardly excuse trotted out over and over.

If Lindenningbrod didn't suck spectacularly at their jobs, there'd be no blame to deflect.

Gillis didn't draft*

 

[absolute garbage]

Looking again, it's pretty obvious that blue is players they like and black players they don't. Most good players are blue, most bad players and bad contracts are black, and anyone Benning dumped is black.

So that's why he doesn't like Subban.

I'm going to need someone to blow up and enhance Colorado as well, I swear it says "Colerado".

I believe the correct version is "colo-ree-do", but that's only for Hansen and Larsen.

To be fair if you're writing every teams lineup by hand onto a whiteboard there's bound to be a few typo's. The whole idea is still pretty backwards in today's digital age, but I'm not going to call anything into question from a few typo's

It's understandable few names are spelled out wrong but when you manage to misspell "Philadelphia"... ehh.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It seems that their is a consensus that Benning is a bad manager because the Canucks have a bad team 3 years into his term. add that together with many inconsequential deals and it is checkmate. However I think it is much more complicated than that we had a stale aging lineup with no prospects in 2013.

How did that "stale aging lineup" make the playoffs in 2014-15?

Further, why did people point out that Benning was a suspect manager even in that "playoff year"?

The fact is that you have marginalized his transactions to be "inconsequential" and have overvalued current team performance. Benning is a terrible GM for reasons outside of the ones you have listed.

Now we have a little less stale lineup with a few prospects. Next year if Boeser, virtanen and OJ arrive it is a bit less stale year after this years first and Demko. In 3 years this should be a young exciting team with perhaps only the Sedins Ericksson over 30. A great manager could have done it a year quicker perhaps. However that we were going to the bottom was determined by the 2006 to 2012 drafts .

A great manager would have increased pick frequency, cycled veterans with undervalued pick ups, executed better deals and negotiated better terms in contracts. So, the opposite of what Benning has done... And somehow you equate the result of that to be a turn around to a exciting players... by a year... maybe...??

The Canucks were never good at drafting. Yet they've been competitive since 2002/2003. People know this and still some think that suspect drafting in 4-6 years leads to an organizational collapse... It's a projection that is so detached from reality, ignoring this team's very own history, that I'm not sure it even warrants a response anymore.

 

[banme*]

When Benning took over the team Horvat, Hutton, and Markstrom were still prospects. Also in the system trending well at the time was Shinkaruk, Jensen, Gaunce, Cassels, Corrado, and Subban.

That had to be the worst prospect pool in the league.

The Canucks were never good at drafting. Yet they've been competitive since 2002/2003. People know this and still some think that suspect drafting in 4-6 years leads to an organizational collapse... It's a projection that is so detached from reality, ignoring this team's very own history, that I'm not sure it even warrants a response anymore.

Our competitive cycles' top players were acquired via hilariously bad trades by other managers or the draft (1999, 2003).

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

That had to be the worst prospect pool in the league.

And it's pretty much just as bad now.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

A great manager would have increased pick frequency, cycled veterans with undervalued pick ups, executed better deals and negotiated better terms in contracts. So, the opposite of what Benning has done... And somehow you equate the result of that to be a turn around to a exciting players... by a year... maybe...??

The Canucks were never good at drafting. Yet they've been competitive since 2002/2003. People know this and still some think that suspect drafting in 4-6 years leads to an organizational collapse... It's a projection that is so detached from reality, ignoring this team's very own history, that I'm not sure it even warrants a response anymore.

The nice thing about "reality" is that it's always there for easy reference.

1999 - Daniel and Henrik Sedin
2001 - Kevin Bieksa
2003 - Ryan Kesler
2004 - Cory Schneider, Alex Edler and Jannick Hansen

Quick, name the core players from the 2008-2012 years of primacy.

2005 - 2012 - Raymond, Grabner, Hodgson, Schroeder, Rodin, Jensen, Corrado, Gaunce, Hutton

Notably, during this long stretch, the Canucks weren't just frequently picking low, they also frequently had very few picks in volume. I'm not sure we've EVER had a manager we didn't castigate for "giving away 2nd round picks". Nonis was particularly slammed for it.

We spent 5 years drafting cornerstone players and it allowed a transition from one high quality squad (the WCE years) to another (the Sedin/Luongo years). Naturally both eras were well supplemented by trades, but the 2011 team was predominantly built through the draft. Arguing the team has "never drafted well" is somewhat willfully ignorant of this chapter of history.

That 2005-2012 stretch is pretty dire by any standard. Some of it can be excused...the team was competitive so it picked lower, the team was chasing a cup so they jettisoned some picks for immediate help...but some of it...like the high profile whiff on Hodgson...was extremely damaging to the team's long term prospects, and hamstrung its ability to transition into a new core.

So...your house is on fire. Years of insufficient picks and poor drafts have left the house on fire. Enter the fireman. Enter Jim Benning.

Benning looks around, assesses that the house is on fire, and immediately starts trading draft picks and young players for "age gap" assets...at least some of whom are poorly conceived, and gives up value in every trade...either because he wants to maintain cordial relationships with other managers or because he's the eponymous sucker born every minute. He natters about rebuilding on the fly and making the playoffs every team, signs some high profile free agents who perform dubiously, and really does everything except the obviously required path of tear down/rebuild through draft volume.

So to continue our analogy, Benning the fireman shows up and immediately starts throwing buckets of gasoline on the house fire. Age Gap. Overpaying for Culture Carriers. Bad Pro Scouting. Low draft pick volume. Etc, etc.

So, did Benning start the fire? Y/N?

In acknowledging that Benning didn't start the fire, is this analogy supportive of Benning in any way, or "letting him off the hook", or "deflecting blame"? Am I suggesting Jim Benning is a good fireman and will eventually get that fire out? Most people are now just praying he burns the house down as fast as possible so we're FORCED to rebuild the bloody thing.

If there's anything "detached from reality" it's pretending the only problem this franchise has ever faced is the madman known as Jim Benning. The problems go back further than that, and the questionable motivations/behaviors go a lot further (and more worryingly) up the food chain than Benning. None of that makes Benning "a good GM" or should be perceived as a passionate defense of his decision making. It's just calling a spade a spade.

 

[tantalum]

Whatever it is this team in once again sitting 28th overall in the Points per game standings. Right where they were to end last year.

So while Benning and company may not be the only ones at fault they are most definitely a large chunk of the blame. And yes it probably goes higher than this group of incompetence. Unfortunately as fans we don't really get a choice in demanding new ownership. We do get to take a stand and demand better management and coaching.

A competent president, GM, AGM, and coach could navigate the storms created by ownership. This group can't. And yes a lot of that falls on ownership for agreeing/helping/hiring this band of incompetents. But something needs to be done and done soon because while they may not have started the fire they are adding increasing amounts of gasoline to the fire (as noted) and there isn't even going to be a foundation to build from when they are done. And Sutter and Gudbranson are not a foundation.

This is a management team that goes on the radio and says despite having 2 regulation wins in 18 or 19 games they are competitive. A management team that says they are competitive despite leading like 50 minutes now 5-on-5 for the entire season. A management team that says competitive with a goal differential that is worst in the league. A management team that says they are playing with more structure and are competitive despite a GA/G that ranks 25th and is over 3 goals per game. And now I don't believe it is simply saying the right things because no one wants write off a season 20 games in.

No, this management group is absolutely delusional and they need to be removed.

An additional 20 games that followed a previous 82 games at the same level screams the season is done. Yet here they are kicking tires on a locker room cancer because he can score a few goals and is the right age.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

This is a management team that goes on the radio and says despite having 2 regulation wins in 18 or 19 games they are competitive. A management team that says they are competitive despite leading like 50 minutes now 5-on-5 for the entire season. A management team that says competitive with a goal differential that is worst in the league. A management team that says they are playing with more structure and are competitive despite a GA/G that ranks 25th and is over 3 goals per game. And now I don't believe it is simply saying the right things because no one wants write off a season 20 games in.

Or a management team that has a mandate to sell season tickets and keep the roster competitive. I'm not sure anyone is as delusional as you're suggesting. This would hardly be the first time the management of a professional sports franchise smeared lipstick all over a pig and tried to sell kisses at the county fair.

Yeah we can't demand new owners, but we can message to ownership properly. "Fire Benning" isn't the right chant, any more than "Fire Gillis" was the right chant. "We want a rebuild" is the right chant. If Benning wasn't running around trying to plug age gaps and find 30 year old culture carriers to mentor the team in the playoffs, he'd be doing a lot less damage right now. Trades like Gudbranson and Gralund aren't even BAD VALUE, necessarily, so much as they're WRONG DIRECTION. If Benning stepped into this job with a rebuild mandate and had spent all this time trading for picks and under 22's, he'd still be a dubious GM with some bad contracts and weird predilections on his docket, but the overall outlook for the franchise would be a lot brighter.

We can chant "Fire Benning" later. This team needs a goddam direction. Or the next clown at the top might chase the playoffs even harder.

 

[racerjoe]

Or a management team that has a mandate to sell season tickets and keep the roster competitive. I'm not sure anyone is as delusional as you're suggesting. This would hardly be the first time the management of a professional sports franchise smeared lipstick all over a pig and tried to sell kisses at the county fair.

Yeah we can't demand new owners, but we can message to ownership properly. "Fire Benning" isn't the right chant, any more than "Fire Gillis" was the right chant. "We want a rebuild" is the right chant. If Benning wasn't running around trying to plug age gaps and find 30 year old culture carriers to mentor the team in the playoffs, he'd be doing a lot less damage right now. Trades like Gudbranson and Gralund aren't even BAD VALUE, necessarily, so much as they're WRONG DIRECTION. If Benning stepped into this job with a rebuild mandate and had spent all this time trading for picks and under 22's, he'd still be a dubious GM with some bad contracts and weird predilections on his docket, but the overall outlook for the franchise would be a lot brighter.

We can chant "Fire Benning" later. This team needs a goddam direction. Or the next clown at the top might chase the playoffs even harder.

Just going with the assumption from your earlier post, I still don't want the fireman who poured gas on the fire in charge of putting out this fire. Or I don't want him in charge of a rebuild. Either way he needs to go.

 

[tantalum]

Or a management team that has a mandate to sell season tickets and keep the roster competitive. I'm not sure anyone is as delusional as you're suggesting. This would hardly be the first time the management of a professional sports franchise smeared lipstick all over a pig and tried to sell kisses at the county fair.

No they are delusional and not very bright.

And they aren't selling tickets or keeping the team competitive. They've failed badly no matter which direction you choose to believe they've been told to go. Or told ownership they'd go. And that's the thing...ownership may be happy with the direction that Benning and Linden proposed but everyone in the media very much suggests it was indeed Benning and Linden that sold the plan to ownership. It can't all be pinned on them either.

 

[Jyrki21]

Can't make out Winnipeg in the video; don't know what colour Kane is in

Would also love to know what this poster says

I've taken my best crack at decoding it:

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And they aren't selling tickets or keeping the team competitive. They've failed badly no matter which direction you choose to believe they've been told to go. Or told ownership they'd go. And that's the thing...ownership may be happy with the direction that Benning and Linden proposed but everyone in the media very much suggests it was indeed Benning and Linden that sold the plan to ownership. It can't all be pinned on them either.

Well again, you're treating this like a debate on which we must coalesce into two camps...Pro and Anti Linden/Benning. We are both critical of the current management group. We both think they've failed to meet their goals...either the goals they should have, or the goals they purported to have. We both think surer hands should guide the rebuild, if and when a rebuild ever occurs.

However, Benning and Linden and the present direction of the team seem more symptomatic to me than the actual disease. We could have a genius for a GM take over, and if there's still a "playoffs or bust" mentality pervading the organization things are going to continue to trend in an ugly direction. That's what I'm saying, here. We're in a plane that's slowly been losing altitude for years because it's out of gas. Arguing about which pilot we want to crash with is something of a secondary concern.

 

[Samzilla]

Well again, you're treating this like a debate on which we must coalesce into two camps...Pro and Anti Linden/Benning. We are both critical of the current management group. We both think they've failed to meet their goals...either the goals they should have, or the goals they purported to have. We both think surer hands should guide the rebuild, if and when a rebuild ever occurs.

However, Benning and Linden and the present direction of the team seem more symptomatic to me than the actual disease. We could have a genius for a GM take over, and if there's still a "playoffs or bust" mentality pervading the organization things are going to continue to trend in an ugly direction. That's what I'm saying, here. We're in a plane that's slowly been losing altitude for years because it's out of gas. Arguing about which pilot we want to crash with is something of a secondary concern.

If the plane's gonna crash, i want mother****ing chesley sullenberger! but for reals...having good management always matters. doesn't matter if the team's on the upswing or downswing.

for example, we could be crashing right now but with a surplus of draft picks...instead of, y'know, being buyers at the deadline.