Canucks Management and Ownership Thread v30.0 (Post #186)

[racerjoe]

This is a good listen:

http://canucksarmy.com/2016/11/9/canucks-army-podcast-episode-3-2016-2017

At about the 11:00 minute mark, they make a comment about "hearing this regime may not get a calender year to decide X if they get another top3 finish..." Which means, they are definitely on the hot seat. Excellent.

They also talk about Tanev trade possibilities. As in, for Landeskog or RNH. Would you do it?



Edit: At about the 1 hour and 11 minute mark, they intimate that Benning was wrong to rely so heavily on his perceived draft prowess to "buck the trend" and find value without volume. They explicitly state that volume was and is the right way to go. Drafting by frequency is very key.

No mainly because it doesn't put us any farther ahead. I want futures for any trade we make. Have to be younger than Horvat IMO.

You would fire Benning? I thought you were proponent of his work?

I agree, they should not fire Linden, but for completely different reasons: He's the only buffer a GM has to this reactionary ownership. When Gillis lost favour with Aqua, there was no one there to educate Aqua as to what he should be doing. In the face of mounting public pressure, he made the wrong decision IMO. And so, there was little in the way of a measured response to a deep drop in that regular season. The only season Gillis had missed the playoffs.

Now, there's Trevor Linden. Firing him outright would have Aqua lose the cache they have with the common fan, who are Trevor supporters. So why do it? The best thing Trevor can do is learn from this and make the right call for the next GM. It's imperative. That way, he remains a key component in Aqua's education over time (Assuming the next GM is successful, strengthening Linden's position as a byproduct).

I was doing some thinking about this, I think you do fire Trev as it is more clear that he is in way over his head. What about having Nazzy as the Pres though? He is much more of a hockey guy, it can still be that more of a buffer position so he does not spend too much time away from family (I think I remember hearing this was part of the reason he left the Swedish team), another face of the franchise to make Aqua happy.

I think the bigger piece will be the GM still, but finding the right buffer could really help.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Problem is who picks the next GM?

Would it be Linden? Who hired Benning and who I wouldn't trust managing my East Side Hockey Manager team

Would it be the Aquas? Who knows where their heads are at, but they did give Gillis a shot.

Or would it be a combination of the two?

It might be tough to recall (it feels like a dream to me), but at the time they were hired, both Benning and Desjardins were considered the top "up and comers" at their respective positions. I recall McKenzie, LeBrun and Friedman saying how they were in demand and a lot of teams were after their services. For the briefest of moments it seemed like the hockey gods were smiling on us when the Canucks landed both the most coveted new GM and head coaching prospects.

Man. Those hockey gods are freaking cruel.

 

[rypper]

Id fire Benning and WD. Id keep Trev because honestly...the President has almost nothing to do with the on ice product. His job is more like..the food and presentation of the organization. Which has been stellar. We are a **** hockey team but everything else is getting better. Food is better, rink is nice, advertising hasnt been hokey, 5 game flex pack is a nice price that Id pay if the team didn't suck. The only thing Trevor has been bad at is giving Jim too much rope.

Trevor Linden is the President of Hockey Operations. So you better believe he is involved in the on ice product and is just as culpable for this mess and Jim and co. He's in the same position as Burke in Calgary.

 

[Ryp37]

It might be tough to recall (it feels like a dream to me), but at the time they were hired, both Benning and Desjardins were considered the top "up and comers" at their respective positions. I recall McKenzie, LeBrun and Friedman saying how they were in demand and a lot of teams were after their services. For the briefest of moments it seemed like the hockey gods were smiling on us when the Canucks landed both the most coveted new GM and head coaching prospects.

Man. Those hockey gods are freaking cruel.

Ah yes, back when I was very excited about the Willie hire.

I guess after the disaster that is this regime they'll have to re-think the interview process

 

[Nucky]

It might be tough to recall (it feels like a dream to me), but at the time they were hired, both Benning and Desjardins were considered the top "up and comers" at their respective positions. I recall McKenzie, LeBrun and Friedman saying how they were in demand and a lot of teams were after their services. For the briefest of moments it seemed like the hockey gods were smiling on us when the Canucks landed both the most coveted new GM and head coaching prospects.

Man. Those hockey gods are freaking cruel.

I remember teams, including the Canucks, wanted to interview Futa from LA. LA didn't want to lose him so they promoted him. Teams also wanted Burke from SJ who I also believe was given some sort of promotion. Benning may not even have been our 1st choice. I know Botterill from Pitt was also rumoured.

I could be wrong, but that's what I remember reading.


I do remember Willie being in high demand, he did turn down Pit for us.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Yeah, folks need to lose the hero worship for Linden.



Great player, great guy off the ice by all accounts.

Horrible at the business side of things, as both his stint with the PA and this position show.

Even if he did nothing beyond hire Benning and give 1040 interviews, he rates a big fat F-.

 

[Nuckles]

Yeah, folks need to lose the hero worship for Linden.



Great player, great guy off the ice by all accounts.

Horrible at the business side of things, as both his stint with the PA and this position show.

Even if he did nothing beyond hire Benning and give 1040 interviews, he rates a big fat F-.

I agree, he isn't fit for the position at all. If he wants to work for the team, he can work in some type of PR position.

 

[Beansy*]

Yeah, folks need to lose the hero worship for Linden.



Great player, great guy off the ice by all accounts.

Horrible at the business side of things, as both his stint with the PA and this position show.

Even if he did nothing beyond hire Benning and give 1040 interviews, he rates a big fat F-.

Totally agree. Not really sure he is a bright enough guy to hold this job.

 

[tantalum]

Tanev trade...if they are going to do a true rebuild I understand why you would do it. For RNH? No..he's not a top line talent to build around. Landeskog? Similar thoughts. I think you go a pure futures deal. Picks and no one over 20.

Hope what poster above said about pressure on Benning and maybe not lasting a calendar year is correct. Hopefully he doesn't make it much past Christmas.

 

[The Drop]

Linden wasn't even a great player. He was just a great Canuck when the franchise never had much in terms of quality players.

if the Sedins came before linden, he wouldn't even be acknowledged here.

 

[groovygoodwine]

Linden wasn't even a great player. He was just a great Canuck when the franchise never had much in terms of quality players.

if the Sedins came before linden, he wouldn't even be acknowledged here.

Thank you for saying this, I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

[The Stig]

Trevor Linden is the President of Hockey Operations. So you better believe he is involved in the on ice product and is just as culpable for this mess and Jim and co. He's in the same position as Burke in Calgary.

Its a title. It means he us president of the team. Not all of Canucks Sports and Entertainment. Which is the Aquilinis business that the Canucks fall under. His job is to run the people that run the show.

Example: My father is the President of Operations for a construction company. He spends a whole 0 days a year on a job site. He buys the company vehicles, he goes to the meetings.

Trevor is the same. Other than a mouthpiece between ownership and the GM and the media, he has little to do with what we see on a day to day basis. If we had the best GM in the league, people would be loving Lindens work. You are judging him based on his employees performance.

 

[Hit the post]

You are judging him based on his employees performance.

To be fair - he's the guy that hired those employees...(or at least the GM)

 

[Pavel96]

Linden wasn't even a great player. He was just a great Canuck when the franchise never had much in terms of quality players.

if the Sedins came before linden, he wouldn't even be acknowledged here.

Exactly. He is completely overrated in this market. Will be so awesome when he is fired or even steps down.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Its a title. It means he us president of the team. Not all of Canucks Sports and Entertainment. Which is the Aquilinis business that the Canucks fall under. His job is to run the people that run the show.

Example: My father is the President of Operations for a construction company. He spends a whole 0 days a year on a job site. He buys the company vehicles, he goes to the meetings.

Trevor is the same. Other than a mouthpiece between ownership and the GM and the media, he has little to do with what we see on a day to day basis. If we had the best GM in the league, people would be loving Lindens work. You are judging him based on his employees performance.

Your father ostensibly has to hire people that are involved to some degree. Trevor hired Benning. And Trevor has stuck with Benning. Now, I'm not necessarily opposed to letting Linden hire a second gm. But he can't completely wash his hands of this.

 

[RandV]

I remember teams, including the Canucks, wanted to interview Futa from LA. LA didn't want to lose him so they promoted him. Teams also wanted Burke from SJ who I also believe was given some sort of promotion. Benning may not even have been our 1st choice. I know Botterill from Pitt was also rumoured.

I could be wrong, but that's what I remember reading.


I do remember Willie being in high demand, he did turn down Pit for us.

From what I remember LA let teams talk with Futa that summer, but after no one hired him they locked him up and shut the door. He was available then but not anymore.

 

[timw33]

The Virtanen situation, from day 1, has been one of the biggest cluster****s I've seen, and blame goes all the way through the org for this one.

2 players taken directly after him were swiftly snatched up by two competent groups of management (who have clearly committed to building the team slowly and not promising the playoffs), then developed correctly, given the right opportunities and coaching, and are both having very strong starts to their NHL careers. Yeah sometimes a guy doesn't click right away but they show *something* to make us go "they are on the verge" but there just isn't anything there.

This was a complete BS local marketing pick through and through.

 

[RandV]

Problem is who picks the next GM?

Would it be Linden? Who hired Benning and who I wouldn't trust managing my East Side Hockey Manager team

Would it be the Aquas? Who knows where their heads are at, but they did give Gillis a shot.

Or would it be a combination of the two?

There's nothing really to substantiate this either way but I always felt that after being hired as a PR stunt Linden was given a rubber stamp to hire Benning. In other words I see him as an Aquilini hire, not Linden.

Benning was considered one of the top candidates for a GM job at the time, and he was coming out of the Boston organization which Aquilini had been obsessing over since the 2011 loss. I mean Linden was hired as one part publicity stunt, to try and woo back declining STH numbers, and one part to be the go between from owner-GM. You really think a hands on guy like Francisco Aquilini would give this green rookie exec full power to hire a new management team?

More likely Linden is just playing his intended role here: being the face that steps in front of the media when ownership needs to do or say something. I don't necessarily consider him dishonest but as we saw right above the bat he will straight up lie about things.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I am OK with Tanev for RNH
Would prefer draft picks or under 20 good prospects though.
Haha, wth am I talking about we have no cap room

 

[The Stig]

Your father ostensibly has to hire people that are involved to some degree. Trevor hired Benning. And Trevor has stuck with Benning. Now, I'm not necessarily opposed to letting Linden hire a second gm. But he can't completely wash his hands of this.

Sure but you dont fire the President because he showed faith in the first guy he hired.

 

[polarbearcub]

There's nothing really to substantiate this either way but I always felt that after being hired as a PR stunt Linden was given a rubber stamp to hire Benning. In other words I see him as an Aquilini hire, not Linden.

Benning was considered one of the top candidates for a GM job at the time, and he was coming out of the Boston organization which Aquilini had been obsessing over since the 2011 loss. I mean Linden was hired as one part publicity stunt, to try and woo back declining STH numbers, and one part to be the go between from owner-GM. You really think a hands on guy like Francisco Aquilini would give this green rookie exec full power to hire a new management team?

More likely Linden is just playing his intended role here: being the face that steps in front of the media when ownership needs to do or say something. I don't necessarily consider him dishonest but as we saw right above the bat he will straight up lie about things.

I agree with this. There were always the rumours of how the aquilinis were obsessed with building the Boston way after they Lost in 2011... Hense gillis trying to make the team tougher right after.

The benning hire has that heir too it.

 

[B-rock]

This is a good listen:

http://canucksarmy.com/2016/11/9/canucks-army-podcast-episode-3-2016-2017

At about the 11:00 minute mark, they make a comment about "hearing this regime may not get a calender year to decide X if they get another top3 finish..." Which means, they are definitely on the hot seat. Excellent.

They also talk about Tanev trade possibilities. As in, for Landeskog or RNH. Would you do it?



Edit: At about the 1 hour and 11 minute mark, they intimate that Benning was wrong to rely so heavily on his perceived draft prowess to "buck the trend" and find value without volume. They explicitly state that volume was and is the right way to go. Drafting by frequency is very key.

Oh, the hubris from Jim "The Scout" Benning. He's the one magician that can pluck at will any top end talent from any round of the draft.
Of course you need volume. Its what any half way capable rebuilding team does - they stockpile picks

 

[thefeebster]

Nice gesture by the Canucks, but savage comment wins.

At about the 1 hour and 11 minute mark, they intimate that Benning was wrong to rely so heavily on his perceived draft prowess to "buck the trend" and find value without volume. They explicitly state that volume was and is the right way to go. Drafting by frequency is very key.

But he told us that he could get a NHLer with every pick! We should have been stock piling picks since he got here. Instead, we have floundered them away on crap.

If you gentlemen would be so kind as to not quote nonsense/gimmick posts, I'd greatly appreciate it. Created an acc after reading the site for like 5+ yrs so I use the ignore function. Please don't render that moot.
Much obliged.

Same reason i joined

 

[VanJack]

Local pundits scoffed at the 'experts" at ESPN and EA Sports who predicted a 65 point season for the Canuckleheads.....but as things stand, they're on pace for 60.....hoping that sometime after the U.S. Thanksgiving (the official 'Tanks' giving) for non-playoff teams, they'll start strip-mining their rosters for picks/prospects.

 

[GPNuck]

Local pundits scoffed at the 'experts" at ESPN and EA Sports who predicted a 65 point season for the Canuckleheads.....but as things stand, they're on pace for 60.....hoping that sometime after the U.S. Thanksgiving (the official 'Tanks' giving) for non-playoff teams, they'll start strip-mining their rosters for picks/prospects.

Sedins are not going to enjoy the next 2 years of their lives