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Canucks Management and Ownership Thread v30.0 (Post #186)

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i hate em!! jim benning..... trevor linden... gotta go!! get outta here!!

Jimson Hogarth said:
Yea pp points clearly don't matter on this team where goals and points flow like the Fraser river.
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hey bud, i tried asking this earlier, but didnt see a reply (you probably didnt see the post or i missed it) - where's your avatar gone? i liked it
 
Bleach Clean said:
This would have been necessary in a re-tool:

http://canucksarmy.com/2016/10/19/the-canucks-should-look-to-acquire-more-draft-picks





Benning went the opposite way...

In a strange way, this leads me back to analytics. By acquiring players that have unrecognized value, you are able to overload the veteran pieces on your team. When that's done, you are able to trade off the bigger-money surplus, pick up more picks, and still hopefully tread water at the NHL level. After a time, the picks mature and start to make a mark on the roster.

Ken Holland talked about pick frequency in one of his videos. He felt that with a weaker draft position year to year, the team needed to load up on picks in order to gain advantage at the draft. They have been doing this. Another team that does this well? Tampa Bay, who is referenced in this article. They had 10 picks in 2015 despite being a much better/competitive team. And yet another is Chicago, who used pick frequency to sustain their pipeline of talent.
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Bleach is there any way you can forward this to Management.
 
Bleach Clean said:
Right, Tampa had 9 in 2015... and 10 in 2016. Wrong year.

Given the scenario's you have outlined, if Virtanen turns out to be a "failing" prospect 3-5 years into his stint with the Canucks, you would have to absolutely applaud Benning for recouping value for that type of asset. Two 2nds for a borderline asset is a coup, regardless of pedigree.

That's why these teams are run by high end GMs. No matter what the mode, they gain or recoup value at the draft almost every year. It's a focus for them. Whether it's trading down for Holland, or flipping prospects that will shake loose from rosters for Yzerman or Bowman, they get draft tickets to try and find the next significant player.

They are light years ahead of where Benning needs to be in terms of thought process and execution. The difference is staggering.
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yes Yzerman moved Brett Connolly for 2 2nd to Boston and a year and bit later he was a UFA.
 
y2kcanucks said:
People should care when a player is getting all that ice-time and yet is producing so little. That's an inefficient player.
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hes not a big scorer? thats not where his value as a player is. the fact that he's our 3rd leading scorer when he should be our 5th-7th if we were a good team is not a reason to slag a player who's having to play in an elevated role because no one else can.
 
sting101 said:
hes not a big scorer? thats not where his value as a player is. the fact that he's our 3rd leading scorer when he should be our 5th-7th if we were a good team is not a reason to slag a player who's having to play in an elevated role because no one else can.
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You're right, Sutter scoring is 100% not where his value is, nor seems to be playing center as a shutdown 3C as he isn't even playing that position right now. A valuable 3C wouldn't be taken out of his role. He's a terrible option for the Sedins, to boot, and barely producing.

It's actually quite hilarious looking at his usage and then his production.
 
RobertKron said:
To be honest, it is generally somewhat fatal when you're talking about scoring line centres.
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Drafting Nylander would have helped.

Not trading McCann would have helped.

Not trading Bonino would have helped.

And then he signs Eriksson for 6 years. :shakehead

I was in the wait and see group for Loui but we've waited and we've seen and what we see is the opposite of good. :shakehead

As much as I love to bag on WD, what does WD really do when he's given this crap roster to work with?

I actually don't begrudge him for using Bo as a 4th line center because theoretically speaking, had Jimbo been doing his job, our veterans would be scoring leaving Bo to play protected minutes and to work on his defensive game. Sort of like the 14-15 season. But yet again, WD has to lean heavily on Bo to score because it's a dogs breakfast in the top 6.

This cluster is all on Jimbo's incompetence.
 
PG Canuck said:
You're right, Sutter scoring is 100% not where his value is, nor seems to be playing center as a shutdown 3C as he isn't even playing that position right now. A valuable 3C wouldn't be taken out of his role. He's a terrible option for the Sedins, to boot, and barely producing.

It's actually quite hilarious looking at his usage and then his production.
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yes hilarious that he trails the Sedin"s by 1 and 2 pts. Including 1st unit pk and making 4.3 compared to Ericsson 6 burrows 4.5.

if he was a top line scorer and a 1st unit penalty killer you would be paying 7 million plus.

he's taken out of his ideal role because Horvat"s line isn't capable of top6 production, Hansen is hurt and Eriksson hasn't clicked with the twins.
 
sting101 said:
yes hilarious that he trails the Sedin"s by 1 and 2 pts. Including 1st unit pk and making 4.3 compared to Ericsson 6 burrows 4.5.

if he was a top line scorer and a 1st unit penalty killer you would be paying 7 million plus.

he's taken out of his ideal role because Horvat"s line isn't capable of top6 production, Hansen is hurt and Eriksson hasn't clicked with the twins.
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Uhhh Horvat Has the same point total while playing on the 2nd PP and defensive minutes. Seems like he is a hell lot more capable of producing than Sutter.

Burrows is actually paid 2.x something right now, his cap hit is high because it is a pay back contract. At the very least Burrows earned that contract with his past play, you really can't say the same for Sutter.
 
sting101 said:
yes hilarious that he trails the Sedin"s by 1 and 2 pts. Including 1st unit pk and making 4.3 compared to Ericsson 6 burrows 4.5.

if he was a top line scorer and a 1st unit penalty killer you would be paying 7 million plus.

he's taken out of his ideal role because Horvat"s line isn't capable of top6 production, Hansen is hurt and Eriksson hasn't clicked with the twins.
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He's playing with the Sedins the majority of the time...why would there be a massive separation in points? They are playing on the same line.

Except he isn't a top line scorer, hence why he will never sniff 7M in his career, ever.

I am extremely confused what you are even trying to get at with Horvat/Sutter. How does taking Sutter out of his center role, help Horvat or anyone?

Bo Horvat: 6G, 10 points
Brandon Sutter: 5G, 11 points

Sutter gets the luxury of playing with the Sedins, getting top PP minutes, favourable matchups, favourable zone starts.

So, what was that about Horvat?
 
iFan said:
How can you be close to getting him, yet walking away cause the price was way too high? That doesn't sounds close to me.
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LOL. They were close to acquiring Kane, then they called to see if they could acquire him and found out that the asking price was too high, so they decided not to make an offer...........but they were close to getting him.
 
Beansy said:
LOL. They were close to acquiring Kane, then they called to see if they could acquire him and found out that the asking price was too high, so they decided not to make an offer...........but they were close to getting him.
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bet they asked for Virtanen and 3rd, Benning insisted Virtanen and 2nd, hence deal fell apart.
:laugh:
 
PG Canuck said:
You're right, Sutter scoring is 100% not where his value is, nor seems to be playing center as a shutdown 3C as he isn't even playing that position right now. A valuable 3C wouldn't be taken out of his role. He's a terrible option for the Sedins, to boot, and barely producing.

It's actually quite hilarious looking at his usage and then his production.
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Have you not noticed that the Canucks have trouble scoring? Have you not noticed that Sutter has scored a goal in the last 4 games?

He's on a 4 game goal streak and you say he's a terrible option for the Sedins and barely producing? :shakehead
 
arttk said:
Sutter is finally putting up some points after being placed on the first line. I mean he was one of the reasons we couldn't score when he was centering our 2nd line.

Even now all he is doing is finishing some of the chances the twins are creating and he is not doing jack for them.
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Have to disagree. The Sedins are so slow now that if Sutter doesn't skate the puck out of the Canuck zone, it doesn't get out.

Sutter is doing more than just scoring, on its own, not a small feat on this team.

Don't get the Sutter hate. He is a decent player, far from the biggest problem we have.
 
F A N said:
Have you not noticed that the Canucks have trouble scoring? Have you not noticed that Sutter has scored a goal in the last 4 games?

He's on a 4 game goal streak and you say he's a terrible option for the Sedins and barely producing? :shakehead
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:nod:


No one is impressed with management or this roster but the Sutter hate is over the top. He is also one of the few players we have that could skate with the Hawks tonight.
 
arttk said:
Uhhh Horvat Has the same point total while playing on the 2nd PP and defensive minutes. Seems like he is a hell lot more capable of producing than Sutter.

Burrows is actually paid 2.x something right now, his cap hit is high because it is a pay back contract. At the very least Burrows earned that contract with his past play, you really can't say the same for Sutter.
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So your idea is that Horvat play RW with the Sedin's then?
 
me2 said:
use the sedins to pump up Sutter's numbers and then dump Sutter while you can.
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Does his contract help or hinder that? Is there any limited NTC to it -- beyond the limit that comes with having Benning as the GM...
 
Use Sutter to pump up Sedin's numbers and then ship them out at the tdl to montreal for 1st rounder 2017and 2018 + cap dump, Salary 50% retained
 
Cupless44 said:
Have to disagree. The Sedins are so slow now that if Sutter doesn't skate the puck out of the Canuck zone, it doesn't get out.

Sutter is doing more than just scoring, on its own, not a small feat on this team.

Don't get the Sutter hate. He is a decent player, far from the biggest problem we have.
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The management team basically planned the roster with 5 centers and Sutter was suppose to be one of them. Now we have Chaput as our 2nd line C because Sutter sucks at centering a line. Right now they have the Sedins propping up Sutter but then at least it is working right now. Sedins are putting up points regardless of who their winger is, Sutter won't produce unless you put him with the twins or Hansen.

I don't hate the player, I hate his acquisition cost, his contract and the fact he is one of the drivers of our lack of depth at C.
 
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