Rumor: Canucks Exploring Tyler Myers Trade Value

[Barnaby]

He brings a bit of everything to the table and would bring a ton of size to a team who is playoff bound. I could see scenarios where a team like NYR offer up Trouba with some retention in order to get out of the term from him and allow Schneider to take over. Washington I could see as another team interested in Myers or even the Penguins with some familiarity between our management. I’m sure the Canucks would have plenty of options if they chose to go that route. I’d personally take Trouba and his term if they took Myers and retained 1.5/2 million on him. He would look great with Hughes or OEL, obviously NTC/NMC etc would come into play.

That’s not even in the realm of reality. Trouba has been great. You want the Rangers to downgrade and retain for 5+ years?

 

[Siludin]

Yah silly me, using precedent, I'm sure you know more, I mean a tonne of boat anchor #5 dman contracts get 1st rounders when retained, we see it all the time right.......

Schmidt didn't a get a 1st either time he was traded within a year, but he would now, care to explain that?

Oh but if we had retained his value jumps form a 3rd to a 1st? Ok then

It does. This is why you don't understand how to value retention.
A top-4 defenseman is not a guaranteed find in the back-half of the 1st round. Getting one at below-average pay for multiple years is even harder.
Making an effort to acquire one for a 1st isn't uncommon.
David Savard was traded for a 1st and a 3rd last year. It was a retained salary transaction and he was a pending UFA. David Savard played 20 games for the Lightning in the playoffs and they won a Stanley Cup. Bad deal for the Lightning?
Brady Skjei was traded the year before at the deadline with 3.5 years left on his $5.25m/yr deal, and he also received a 1st. Bad deal so far for Carolina?

 

[Siludin]

The retained money has no value to the buying party. It's all about the player and the remaining contract. If no team wants a player after retention, the potentially retained money has zero value.

It explicitly has value to the buying party who may not have the cap space to otherwise acquire and retain the player.
How well a player continues playing after being traded is moot. He could play better and increase his value. Not sure what you are getting at with your second point.

 

[TBF1972]

It explicitly has value to the buying party who may not have the cap space to otherwise acquire and retain the player.
How well a player continues playing after being traded is moot. He could play better and increase his value. Not sure what you are getting at with your second point.

the retention has no explicit value. it's the contract after retention, which gains value. the retention is just used as an instrument to increase the value of the contract.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

It does. This is why you don't understand how to value retention.
A top-4 defenseman is not a guaranteed find in the back-half of the 1st round. Getting one at below-average pay for multiple years is even harder.
Making an effort to acquire one for a 1st isn't uncommon.
David Savard was traded for a 1st and a 3rd last year. It was a retained salary transaction and he was a pending UFA. David Savard played 20 games for the Lightning in the playoffs and they won a Stanley Cup. Bad deal for the Lightning?
Brady Skjei was traded the year before at the deadline with 3.5 years left on his $5.25m/yr deal, and he also received a 1st. Bad deal so far for Carolina?

Yah except Myers isn't a top 4 dman on a contender, which is likely who we would trade him too, which means his value isn't a 1st, even retained, you don't seem to understand that.

Savard is twice the player Myers is, way more defensively responsible, isn't prone to the boneheaded plays , there is a reason Myers is called chaos giraffe, another thing you seemingly don't understand.

 

[Siludin]

the retention has no explicit value. it's the contract after retention, which gains value. the retention is just used as an instrument to increase the value of the contract.

Yes but teams only have so many retention slots. It costs more to acquire a retained player. You're saying the egg has the value, not the yolk.

 

[Siludin]

Yah except Myers isn't a top 4 dman on a contender, which is likely who we would trade him too, which means his value isn't a 1st, even retained, you don't seem to understand that.

Savard is twice the player Myers is, there is a reason he is called chaos giraffe, another thing you seemingly don't understand.

You're saying that David Savard is substantially superior to Tyler Myers at this stage in his career?
Kyle Quincey? Keith Ballard? We can go back in time.
If Myers were available to Tampa retained for a 1st last year they would have sniped that for sure because he would have still been on their roster (or at least, for many playoff teams this will be the case in acquiring a retained player).
If the Canucks are dangling retention, they don't accept anything less than a 1st-round pick in return. Cap space and money have value.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I think he has close to neutral value.
There's likely going to be a dinosaur GM out there who likes him based on his size, pedigree, draft position and Calder trophy, experience/leadership, etc.

I think he goes for a small add on either side (3rd round pick?).

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

You're saying that David Savard is substantially superior to Tyler Myers at this stage in his career?
Kyle Quincey? Keith Ballard? We can go back in time.
If Myers were available to Tampa retained for a 1st last year they would have sniped that for sure because he would have still been on their roster (or at least, for many playoff teams this will be the case in acquiring a retained player).
If the Canucks are dangling retention, they don't accept anything less than a 1st-round pick in return. Cap space and money have value.

I'm saying he is a far more responsible player than Myers and isn't prone to boneheaded mistakes, which makes him a lot more valuable. Don't know why your bringing up Ballard or Quincey neither are comparable to Myers.

If we could get a 1st for Myers retained he would be gone already.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this but realistically there is ZERO chance even retained we get a 1st for Myers, it will not happen

 

[TBF1972]

Yes but teams only have so many retention slots. It costs more to acquire a retained player. You're saying the egg has the value, not the yolk.

for the seller the retention has explicit value agreed.

the buying party doesn't care. if they can choose between two equal players, one retained down to the same amount as the other, they have no reason to pay more for the player with retention.

 

[Siludin]

I'm saying he is a far more responsible player than Myers and isn't prone to boneheaded mistakes, which makes him a lot more valuable. Don't know why your bringing up Ballard or Quincey neither are comparable to Myers.

If we could get a 1st for Myers retained he would be gone already.

There is ZERO chance even retained we get a 1st for Myers, it will not happen

Okay so this is about you being down on Myers rather than being able to objectively look at how value works in NHL trade for veteran top-4 defensemen.
He's a mobile minute-cruncher who can quarterback a powerplay.
He's +10 on a non-playoff team this year.
He's and a career plus player despite playing over half of his seasons on non-playoff teams.
He's also one of the largest players in the league while consequently being unhindered by his skating.
He's a former Calder winner.
He can play the penalty kill.
He plays the right side and he's a right-handed shot.
He's definitely getting a 1st on a retained deal.

 

[Siludin]

for the seller the retention has explicit value agreed.

the buying party doesn't care. if they can choose between two equal players, one retained down to the same amount as the other, they have no reason to pay more for the player with retention.

??? The difference would be the price to acquire Myers at $6m/year vs at $3m/year.
The team looking to acquire Myers would expect to pay more for him if salary is being retained.
His value on their receiving team's roster is higher with retention that it would be without, because they then use the saved cap space on another player if required, if the Canucks are providing that option.
Available RHD at $3-4mm are already slim pickings. Ben Chiarot is likely to also return a 1st. Another name is Scott Mayfield, who would not have to be retained, but at $1.45 through next season I see him getting a bit haul if he moves.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Okay so this is about you being down on Myers rather than being able to objectively look at how value works in NHL trade for veteran top-4 defensemen.
1.He's a mobile minute-cruncher who can quarterback a powerplay.
2. He's +10 on a non-playoff team this year.
3. He's and a career plus player despite playing over half of his seasons on non-playoff teams.
4. He's also one of the largest players in the league while consequently being unhindered by his skating.
5. He's a former Calder winner.
6. He can play the powerplay and penalty kill.
7. He plays the right side and he's a right-handed shot.
8. He's definitely getting a 1st on a retained deal.

1. He is not a PP QB, he hasn't been a minute cruncher till this year, he does skate well, I'll give you that.

2. He has been a lot better this year, he still makes too many bonehead mistakes.

3. He has been a minus player for us and the Sabres, despite this year, and was only a plus player on Jet's team that was pretty damn good and deep with blue liners, even so the fans were not happy with his play and were happy he signed with us, what does that tell you?

4. He isn't hindered by skating but he is by taking stupid penalties directly resulting from his size.

5. He won a Calder over 10 years ago, no GM in the league gives a shit about that.

6. He doesn't put up a tonne of points, but yes is alright on the PP and PK

7. Yep he is more valuable because he is a RHD, again I'll give you that.

8. He could definitely get a 3rd on a retained deal.

 

[TBF1972]

??? The difference would be the price to acquire Myers at $6m/year vs at $3m/year.
The team looking to acquire Myers would expect to pay more for him if salary is being retained.
His value on their receiving team's roster is higher with retention that it would be without, because they then use the saved cap space on another player if required, if the Canucks are providing that option.
Available RHD at $3-4mm are already slim pickings. Ben Chiarot is likely to also return a 1st. Another name is Scott Mayfield, who would not have to be retained, but at $1.45 through next season I see him getting a bit haul if he moves.

if a team values myers retained down to 3m, the same as a late 2nd rounder, they might be willing to offer a mid 2nd.

but i have read so many times on this board, if team a retains x amount of money of player y contract, the other team has to pay at least a first + something else. because they argue from the seller's point of view, where the retained money counts against the cap and only three retention slots are available.

the buying party looks just at the player and his contract after retention. they couldn't care less, what the contract looked like before the retention. it's not their business.

 

[NMacrules]

Sniped90 is a rat snitch. He goes around reporting posts that he doesn't like then when people respond, he reports them to mods.

We are on to you Snitched90.

 

[Jacob582]

Tyler Myers
for
Anders Bjork

No retention

 

[Stubu]

He’s a solid dman just overpaid. I’m sure given the rarity of his skillset, height and the fact he’s a RHD he has some value.

Curious, what's his wingspan?

He's got an unusually long neck, so in this case I don't know if his height figure correlates with longer reach, and "bigger build" in general.

Not sure if height as such, in isolation, is really much of a benefit. (Maybe it is? I've personally never had the experience... Maybe you see farther on the ice... haha.)

 

[TBF1972]

Curious, what's his wingspan?

He's got an unusually long neck, so in this case I don't know if his height figure correlates with longer reach, and "bigger build" in general.

Not sure if height as such, in isolation, is really much of a benefit. (Maybe it is? I've personally never had the experience... Maybe you see farther on the ice... haha.)

he can see over the screener.

 

[Siludin]

1. He is not a PP QB, he hasn't been a minute cruncher till this year, he does skate well, I'll give you that.

2. He has been a lot better this year, he still makes too many bonehead mistakes.

3. He has been a minus player for us and the Sabres, despite this year, and was only a plus player on Jet's team that was pretty damn good and deep with blue liners, even so the fans were not happy with his play and were happy he signed with us, what does that tell you?

4. He isn't hindered by skating but he is by taking stupid penalties directly resulting from his size.

5. He won a Calder over 10 years ago, no GM in the league gives a shit about that.

6. He doesn't put up a tonne of points, but yes is alright on the PP and PK

7. Yep he is more valuable because he is a RHD, again I'll give you that.

8. He could definitely get a 3rd on a retained deal.

This is where you make no sense, because you already argued he'd get a 3rd without retention, which is why he gets a 1st with retention.

 

[Siludin]

if a team values myers retained down to 3m, the same as a late 2nd rounder, they might be willing to offer a mid 2nd.

but i have read so many times on this board, if team a retains x amount of money of player y contract, the other team has to pay at least a first + something else. because they argue from the seller's point of view, where the retained money counts against the cap and only three retention slots are available.

the buying party looks just at the player and his contract after retention. they couldn't care less, what the contract looked like before the retention. it's not their business.

What? No the buying parties have an option to acquire a player with retention and without retention.
For the buying party:
- $6m for Myers, what's he worth?
- $3m for Myers, what's he worth?
The buying team can assign two values. Regardless of whether you think Myers is worth at $6m (maybe it's only a 7th round pick), with retention you his price is a higher pick.

Retaining salary also opens the amount of teams that can acquire the player from the very few contenders with cap space to a larger group of buyers, increasing the amount of interested parties.

 

[Stubu]

he can see over the screener.

Like I said I wouldn't know myself, haha, but I'm not surprised if there are practical advantages like that to being taller (if not wider), and tall he is.

Just wondering if the X correlates with the Y in his specific, giraffic case.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Honestly neither is really a fit. Both wingers of almost any variety are something we're well stocked with, and we have a number of depth defensemen(of the 5-8 on our team), so its more trading something overpriced, but useful, for varying cap hits for pieces we don't have roster room for. Even full retention fore Labanc and Simek is 3.5ish million, so while we save 2.5 on Myers' full cap hit, it's not really worth having Schenn, Hamonic and Poolman as our starting RHD.

Is there anyone on Vancouver that you'd be willing to pay for the Sharks to take or do you think Vancouver is not going to want to do something like that?

 

[KevinRedkey]

Nikita Zaitsev 1-for-1

lol I wish

 

[paulhiggins]

High cap hit, too many years left on contract for an older guy and having the worst year of his career (11 points). Can't see teams lining up for him.

Tyler Myers (b.1990) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
Tyler Myers Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

This is where you make no sense, because you already argued he'd get a 3rd without retention, which is why he gets a 1st with retention.

No I said we'd be extremely lucky to get a 3rd for him, as in I don't think it would happen but in some fantasy scenario where a team is dumb enough to do it.

I never said implicitly that he would get a 3rd. I think it's more realistic that we can get a 3rd with retention, as in it wouldn't take an extreme situation or fantasy or that a GM would have to be dumb enough to do it.