Speculation: Canucks Elias Pettersson on the move? Nucks GM speaks out

[Peter Griffin]

You are when you lash out with assumptions and insults. That's not the kind of deal that the Sharks would actually provide you. The Sharks would provide you value in movable assets to get guys you'd want to target. You can't guarantee a team has any of what you'd be looking for and a willingness to take that contract. That's the economic realities of the NHL.

It was a trash offer, sorry if I offended you.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yea, Byram and Cozens would be a take it and run kinda deal for Vancouver. Instantly makes them a much better team

Yea, Cozens with his over $7M cap hit and 40ish point production and questions regarding whether he’s actually a legit center rather than a winger is something Vancouver should jump all over. There’s a reason virtually every Sabres’ fan would jump on this offer, don’t let your weird dislike for Pettersson cloud your judgement.

 

[Bond]

Eichel 2.0, I’ll be happy when the Canucks trade Pettersson. Hopefully the Flames can get in on it seeing as they refuse to rebuild…

 

[JKG33]

To be clear, it is contingent on Colorado feeling that re-signing Rantanen isn't likely. They downgrade, but they also get a superstar locked in for 7 more seasons.

For Vancouver, the packages for Pettersson would have to be unspectacular, as they likely are given the context of selling low in season when an 11.6M cap hit is difficult to move. So getting a franchise player back, even as a rental, that's a good result. Not to mention the value of getting on the inside track to signing him next season.

The problem with that theory is the goal is to win cups, not collect superstars like it's some kind of shitty marvel movie. If the opposite were true, a team like Toronto would have multiple cups with their core of overpaid superstars and a player like Karlsson would've been dealt for more than a collection of cap dumps.

If Colorado is out on Rantanen, trade him to the highest bidder and use those assets to get players that can actually help you win a cup. Players who outperform their cap hits, like Miller, Bennett, Konecny, Wilson, Guentzal.. you get the point. Colorado is a smart organization that's won a cup recently, I trust that they understand this.

Nothing EP's done in his career indicates he'll ever be worth his cap hit in the playoffs, and getting out of that contract for anything with positive value would be a huge win for Vancouver. Even if its a few months of Rantanen

Yea, Cozens with his over $7M cap hit and 40ish point production and questions regarding whether he’s actually a legit center rather than a winger is something Vancouver should jump all over. There’s a reason virtually every Sabres’ fan would jump on this offer, don’t let your weird dislike for Pettersson cloud your judgement.

Vancouver will almost certainly have to take back a cap dump in an EP deal. I'd bet on Cozens being another in a long line of players to figure it out immediately upon leaving Buffalo over a lot of other cap dumps Vancouver might get.

Unfortunately for the Canucks they've painted themselves into a corner with EP's shitty cap hit and incoming NMC. I said it at the time, they should've taken that Hurricanes offer last year and added Guentzal too.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

The problem with that theory is the goal is to win cups, not collect superstars like it's some kind of shitty marvel movie. If the opposite were true, a team like Toronto would have multiple cups with their core of overpaid superstars and a player like Karlsson would've been dealt for more than a collection of cap dumps.

If Colorado is out on Rantanen, trade him to the highest bidder and use those assets to get players that can actually help you win a cup. Players who outperform their cap hits, like Miller, Bennett, Konecny, Wilson, Guentzal.. you get the point. Colorado is a smart organization that's won a cup recently, I trust that they understand this.

Nothing EP's done in his career indicates he'll ever be worth his cap hit in the playoffs, and getting out of that contract for anything with positive value would be a huge win for Vancouver. Even if its a few months of Rantanen


Vancouver will almost certainly have to take back a cap dump in an EP deal. I'd bet on Cozens being another in a long line of players to figure it out immediately upon leaving Buffalo over a lot of other cap dumps Vancouver might get.

Unfortunately for the Canucks they've painted themselves into a corner with EP's shitty cap hit and incoming NMC. I said it at the time, they should've taken that Hurricanes offer last year and added Guentzal too.

I appreciate you refraining from being condescending in your reply. Some posters take it over the top with the condescension.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

Possibly but that's a tough one to pull off in this situation when Vancouver is looking to compete and fill specific spots that the Eichel deal wouldn't have addressed. They want a center and a top four defenseman that can help them now. Tuch and Krebs wouldn't be ideal types of players Vancouver would be looking for in return.

Buffalo would be making a pretty huge mistake to jump at such a deal when the likelihood of anyone having a 2C and a top four D available is slim for Pettersson. And Byram is their #2 right now. No chance Vancouver gets that sort of deal for Pettersson.

Oh baby, our Pegula-era mission statement is "pretty huge mistakes expected."

As for the trade, I would make that trade all day from Buffalo's perspective. Buffalo has to move on from one of Power or Byram. The team composition is horrible, and a defensively responsible near-PPG or PPG center would fill a gaping hole. Then they can rebalance the D and focus efforts on finding a defensively responsible RD.

Cozens and Pettersson are both underperforming right now, but their top ends are vastly different. Byram's value compensates for that (and helps the salary work out).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It was a trash offer, sorry if I offended you.

No offer was made hence why you're being sensitive calling it trash in the first place. I never offered Granlund nor Walman or Ferraro. I merely stated that would be the guys on the Sharks that would attempt to fill such a request rather than an actual offer. An offer from the Sharks would likely look like a bunch of high-valued 1st round pick level assets while also taking cap redundancies off your hands.

Oh baby, our Pegula-era mission statement is "pretty huge mistakes expected."

As for the trade, I would make that trade all day from Buffalo's perspective. Buffalo has to move on from one of Power or Byram. The team composition is horrible, and a defensively responsible near-PPG or PPG center would fill a gaping hole. Then they can rebalance the D and focus efforts on finding a defensively responsible RD.

Cozens and Pettersson are both underperforming right now, but their top ends are vastly different. Byram's value compensates for that (and helps the salary work out).

And the issue with that for Buffalo is backfilling the loss on defense is not going to be easy with less cap space to use because you're putting a lot more on Pettersson who is not a guarantee to bounce back in a place like Buffalo anyway. I also don't think that Buffalo actually has to make such an offer because nobody else is likely to put forth a similar package with a similar willingness to take that whole contract with the Canucks up against a clock.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Meh, I'm a Canucks fan, and I'd do this easily.

Two young roster players who can contribute now (during the Quinn Hughes era), with contracts locked in going forward.

I guess Byram would be the better option if we're really trying to compete this year and next. But considering he was recently dealt for Casey Middelstadt, I just don't feel good enough about the value. But a 6'6 former 1st OA goes down a bit easier...

Pettersson is a gifted player, but he just isn't having fun playing hockey here anymore. Get him with his buddy Dahlin. Just give us workable pieces back. We're trying to compete while we still have Quinn Hughes under contract.

As a fan of an Atlantic division team who watches the Sabres semi regularly, you are drastically overrating Owen power.

 

[Peter Griffin]

No offer was made hence why you're being sensitive calling it trash in the first place. I never offered Granlund nor Walman or Ferraro. I merely stated that would be the guys on the Sharks that would attempt to fill such a request rather than an actual offer. An offer from the Sharks would likely look like a bunch of high-valued 1st round pick level assets while also taking cap redundancies off your hands.

Nothing you mentioned in your post is something that would be of value to the Canucks currently unless they were simply looking to offload his contract. If that were the case, why not wait until the offseason when teams will have a lot more available capspace and flexibility?

 

[eojsmada]

I wonder if there is a 3-way possibility of sending Cozens to Vancouver and Petterson to Detroit, with Buffalo getting players/prospects from both.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

You need a team that needs a 1C and believes Pettersson is one to trade their 2C in the same deal.

Nashville will trade you every C on our roster for him. Combined you might have a 2C.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I wonder if there is a 3-way possibility of sending Cozens to Vancouver and Petterson to Detroit, with Buffalo getting players/prospects from both.

Why wouldn’t Buffalo just make a deal directly with Vancouver for Pettersson?

 

[Paper]

I don't understand why the Canuck fans and organizations like to trash and runout their star players. Like look how they treated Messier, despite him being a legend and agreeing to play for them.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Nothing you mentioned in your post is something that would be of value to the Canucks currently unless they were simply looking to offload his contract. If that were the case, why not wait until the offseason when teams will have a lot more available capspace and flexibility?

Because teams will squeeze you then like what happened in every other previous instance where an impending movement clause takes leverage away from the team trying to offload the contract. The likelihood of an in-season trade where 11.6 mil is being tossed around by teams is very slim even with a player of Pettersson's skills. The idea that the Canucks wouldn't value a boatload of high value future assets and cap flexibility for a contract they're seemingly regretting already seems counter to how the NHL operates these days. While not exactly the same, the trade of Erik Karlsson following a Norris season dealt with the same sort of numbers. It fell apart at the deadline with Edmonton but they didn't have the freedom of open availability being taken away hanging over their heads like the Canucks do with Pettersson in a down season.

 

[JKG33]

Because teams will squeeze you then like what happened in every other previous instance where an impending movement clause takes leverage away from the team trying to offload the contract. The likelihood of an in-season trade where 11.6 mil is being tossed around by teams is very slim even with a player of Pettersson's skills. The idea that the Canucks wouldn't value a boatload of high value future assets and cap flexibility for a contract they're seemingly regretting already seems counter to how the NHL operates these days. While not exactly the same, the trade of Erik Karlsson following a Norris season dealt with the same sort of numbers. It fell apart at the deadline with Edmonton but they didn't have the freedom of open availability being taken away hanging over their heads like the Canucks do with Pettersson in a down season.

Hell, the Sharks did everything in their power to artificially inflate his value, letting him run wild and play some of the most defensively irresponsible hockey the league has ever seen. They had no interest in winning so they could get away with it. And even then the best the Sharks could do is a 1st and a collection of cap dumps.

Vancouver doesn't have the luxury of coddling EP to inflate his value when they're trying to win a cup.

 

[eojsmada]

Why wouldn’t Buffalo just make a deal directly with Vancouver for Pettersson?

Because they could get better value from two teams versus one. Like if one team had better D prospect and the other had a better forward prospect, you could select one from each team and benefit Buffalo. Each team would give up less, in terms of quantity, but Buffalo would reap the reward of having higher end prospects instead of filling up on lower end prospects/picks.

 

[nergish]

As a fan of an Atlantic division team who watches the Sabres semi regularly, you are drastically overrating Owen power.

Fair enough! He is only freshly 22 years old, though, and has 22 points already this year.

If people are saying Cozens is regressing, may be more of a Winger going forward...
and Owen Power is not living up to his potential...

Then maybe it's wise to hold on to our sulking Swede.

I just really wanted to make a move like this - as our Defense is atrocious, and I thought Cozens could be a great longterm 2C behind JT Miller.

Young puckmoving Dman with size + young workhorse 2C centre is precisely what a Pettersson trade should look like imo. Otherwise, why bother? Like I say, we will always be trying to compete as long as Quinn Hughes is under contract here.

 

[gsharpe]

While that would be fair, it doesn't make sense. Hughes and fox are redundant. You neuter fox if he isn't pp1 dman.

I'm surprised it's considered fair. Fox is a perennial Norris candidate. Play them separate and you own the ice 50 minutes a game.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Because teams will squeeze you then like what happened in every other previous instance where an impending movement clause takes leverage away from the team trying to offload the contract. The likelihood of an in-season trade where 11.6 mil is being tossed around by teams is very slim even with a player of Pettersson's skills. The idea that the Canucks wouldn't value a boatload of high value future assets and cap flexibility for a contract they're seemingly regretting already seems counter to how the NHL operates these days. While not exactly the same, the trade of Erik Karlsson following a Norris season dealt with the same sort of numbers. It fell apart at the deadline with Edmonton but they didn't have the freedom of open availability being taken away hanging over their heads like the Canucks do with Pettersson in a down season.

Comparing a 33 year old’s trade value to that of a 26 year old’s is certainly interesting. You’re also comparing a player in Karlsson who had trade protection, to one that has zero. You’re acting as if there’s only one team that would be willing to trade for Pettersson if he was made available this offseason, which I don’t think would be the case at all.

The Jack Eichel trade is the closest comparable. Mid 20’s top 6 forward/defense with desired attributes, prospect with recent mid-1st round pedigree and future 1st and 2nd.

Because they could get better value from two teams versus one. Like if one team had better D prospect and the other had a better forward prospect, you could select one from each team and benefit Buffalo. Each team would give up less, in terms of quantity, but Buffalo would reap the reward of having higher end prospects instead of filling up on lower end prospects/picks.

Buffalo doesn’t need or likely want prospects though, they want current NHL help.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Fair enough! He is only freshly 22 years old, though, and has 22 points already this year.

If people are saying Cozens is regressing, may be more of a Winger going forward...
and Owen Power is not living up to his potential...

Then maybe it's wise to hold on to our sulking Swede.

I just really wanted to make a move like this - as our Defense is atrocious, and I thought Cozens could be a great longterm 2C behind JT Miller.

Young puckmoving Dman with size + young workhorse 2C centre is precisely what a Pettersson trade should look like imo. Otherwise, why bother? Like I say, we will always be trying to compete as long as Quinn Hughes is under contract here.

Buffalo has a lot of players that were drafted high so people assume they’re good. Think about what you’re saying. Dahlin we all agree is a franchise 1D. Samuelson is a good 4D. Byram is a passable 3/4D. If power was also a top 2-4D, buffalo would be a top team, not bottom of the league. They suck because all those guys except Dahlin are not as good as their reputation. In powers case specifically he is a black hole defensively.

 

[nergish]

Buffalo has a lot of players that were drafted high so people assume they’re good. Think about what you’re saying. Dahlin we all agree is a franchise 1D. Samuelson is a good 4D. Byram is a passable 3/4D. If power was also a top 2-4D, buffalo would be a top team, not bottom of the league. They suck because all those guys except Dahlin are not as good as their reputation. In powers case specifically he is a black hole defensively.

Absolutely. I've always kinda figured that to be true.
But then again, Buffalo has had a losing culture for so long. Almost nobody has developed in that system for a decade... I also know how they likely value a former 1st and 7th OA pick.

I've also seen Pettersson go hot and cold, sulk on the bench, and roll his eyes enough times...
He is an all star player that 2/3rd of our fanbase are ready to move on from.

 

[Satanphonehome]

Because they could get better value from two teams versus one. Like if one team had better D prospect and the other had a better forward prospect, you could select one from each team and benefit Buffalo. Each team would give up less, in terms of quantity, but Buffalo would reap the reward of having higher end prospects instead of filling up on lower end prospects/picks.

What do you think the Sabres would rather have: a point per game 26-year-old centre, or 3 more highly touted prospects to join the dozen 1st-rounders they’ve added in the last 5 or 6 years: Helenius, Benson, Savoie, Ostlund, Kulich, Power, Rosen, Quinn, Cozens, Byram, Krebs and Johnson.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Comparing a 33 year old’s trade value to that of a 26 year old’s is certainly interesting. You’re also comparing a player in Karlsson who had trade protection, to one that has zero. You’re acting as if there’s only one team that would be willing to trade for Pettersson if he was made available this offseason, which I don’t think would be the case at all.

The Jack Eichel trade is the closest comparable. Mid 20’s top 6 forward/defense with desired attributes, prospect with recent mid-1st round pedigree and future 1st and 2nd.

That make the same amount of cap is the main point. One was producing that year up to that pay. The other isn't. There wasn't only one team who was willing to trade for Karlsson either. The point is that moving around cap at that amount is not easy regardless of the player and their performance. I can agree that Eichel is likely the most comparable but if you're going to show concerns over age difference, you'd likely show concerns over the difference that Eichel was seriously injured at that time compared to a healthy version of Pettersson by comparison. And even that deal is probably being charitable for Pettersson to return. Getting to shed 5 mil and get a recent 1st and a 1st with Tuch is probably not in the cards for Vancouver here because they want a center replacement or a top four defenseman at a minimum which will scale back the other particulars involved. If you got Cozens from Buffalo as the main piece more or less, you're not getting both a Krebs and a 1st most likely. You're probably only getting one of those things and accepting the 4.5 mil in cap savings.

 

[Cloudedthought]

He’s obviously trying to light a fire under Pettersson’s ass with those comments.

Lighting a fire under him would make sense if he was not out with a injury.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Lighting a fire under him would make sense if he was not out with a injury.

Pettersson isn’t expected back within the next week? Was Allvin supposed to delay his answers to the Q and A by a week to correspond with Pettersson’s potential return? Come on.