Post-Game Talk: Canucks 3 Leafs 2

[Mess]

They say when you think you have 2 goalies often you don't have 1.

Leafs biggest concern right now has to be between the pipes as neither goalie is giving the Leafs trusted and reliable goaltending and its simply Leafs tossing up enough run sport to offset below average sub .900 sv% play to keep the win column growing despite their goalies play.

Also Leafs 2nd line of Tavares is getting eaten alive defensively as both JT and Nylander are now both -11 +/- in the last 9 games which included a 6 game winning streak in the middle and Leafs putting up 38 goals for [4.25 GF/g] .. They were on for 2 of Canucks 3 goals yesterday again and at least 2 if not 3 against Calgary.

Sat 2/12 @ Van L 3-2 .....................-1 +/-
Thu 2/10 @ CGY L 5-2 ................ -2
Mon 2/7 vs CAR W 4-3 OT ...... -2
Tue 2/1 @ NJ W 7-1 ....................... -1
Mon 1/31 vs NJ W 6-4 ................. -2
Sat 1/29 @ DET W 7-4 ............... +1
Wed 1/26 vs ANA W 4-3 SO ... -2
Sat 1/22 @ NYI W 3-1 .................. +1
Wed 1/19 @ NYR L 6-3 ............... -3

 

[Gallagbi]

They say when you think you have 2 goalies often you don't have 1.

Leafs biggest concern right now has to be between the pipes as neither goalie is giving the Leafs trusted and reliable goaltending and its simply Leafs tossing up enough run sport to offset below average sub .900 sv% play to keep the win column growing despite their goalies play.

Also Leafs 2nd line of Tavares is getting eaten alive defensive as both JT and Nylander are now both -11 +/- in the last 9 games which included a 6 game winning streak in the middle and Leafs putting up 38 goals for [4.25 GF/g] .. They were on for 2 of Canucks 3 goals yesterday again and at least 2 if not 3 against Calgary.

1 last night, the third GA. Matthews Line was goal #1 and then the PK goal on #2

 

[Zybalto]

Intentional stick in the gloves multiple times on a breakaway? Instead of a penalty shot, let's ignore it...






Accidentally trip and fall into someone? Throw the book at him!






Two handed slash to break up a prime scoring chance that is called 99% of the time? Hey hey, we put the whistles away....but lets call the accidental high stick that clipped his helmet as he tried to regain his balance! (and the selljob to his mouth)


Thats just a taste of the bad calls last night but yea, it gets pretty frustrating when a team is so dominant and is getting interfered with all over the ice by another team that cant keep up and yet penalties go the other way. Brutal night for the zebras and any Leaf fan was furious at them last night.

 

[Zybalto]

1 last night, the third GA. Matthews Line was goal #1 and then the PK goal on #2

Goals against are a crappy way of looking at D when your goalies have been arguably the worst in the league the last month and a half is the problem.

 

[Gallagbi]

Goals against are a crappy way of looking at D when your goalies have been arguably the worst in the league the last month and a half is the problem.

Agreed, was just correcting misinformation on last night.

They've done well lately offensively, they do need to pay some more attention defensively. That third goal last night is just a situation where they need to be better in the neutral zone. That said, they've suffered from some awful goaltending lately.

 

[Racer88]

Great post. I'm so tired of losing in the playoffs, and almost as tired of people posting a bunch of numbers showing how well we played in losing.

That drives me nuts as well. I’m also sick of apologists saying “we dominated them” but all the while ignoring that we lost

 

[Racer88]

Because skating around on the perimeter running up the time of possession clock, while the opposition doesn't touch you, but rather simply busy boxing out the slot, and high danger scoring area allowing perimeter shots doesn't draw penalties.

Teams allow the Leafs to skate circles and pass the puck all around the outside to their hearts content until they gain possession and try to clear their own zone.

Its the opposition managing the Leafs not the Refs.

So true !!!!!

 

[Gallagbi]

So true !!!!!

Calgary was much more of a perimeter game. The Nucks gave up a significant amount of prime, slot and down low chances last night we simply didn't convert on.

The Flames played a defensively sound game against us, that was relatively even. Last night the Nucks were bailed out by goaltending, and our goaltenders struggle in both games.

 

[Jojalu]

They say when you think you have 2 goalies often you don't have 1.

Leafs biggest concern right now has to be between the pipes as neither goalie is giving the Leafs trusted and reliable goaltending and its simply Leafs tossing up enough run sport to offset below average sub .900 sv% play to keep the win column growing despite their goalies play.

Also Leafs 2nd line of Tavares is getting eaten alive defensively as both JT and Nylander are now both -11 +/- in the last 9 games which included a 6 game winning streak in the middle and Leafs putting up 38 goals for [4.25 GF/g] .. They were on for 2 of Canucks 3 goals yesterday again and at least 2 if not 3 against Calgary.

Sat 2/12 @ Van L 3-2 .....................-1 +/-
Thu 2/10 @ CGY L 5-2 ................ -2
Mon 2/7 vs CAR W 4-3 OT ...... -2
Tue 2/1 @ NJ W 7-1 ....................... -1
Mon 1/31 vs NJ W 6-4 ................. -2
Sat 1/29 @ DET W 7-4 ............... +1
Wed 1/26 vs ANA W 4-3 SO ... -2
Sat 1/22 @ NYI W 3-1 .................. +1
Wed 1/19 @ NYR L 6-3 ............... -3

Lol. I remember Madden always saying sometimes when you say you have 3 RB'S it really means you have none.

 

[Cobra777]

Nothing like having below average goaltending every night

true but also include a crappy defense especially Holl, he is braindead. Never seen so many open men standing infront of our net banging in rebounds game in and out not even including all the odd man rushes we allow

 

[Stephen]

Said the same thing after the Calgary game:

Be physical, protect the middle, wait for stupid turnovers for easy goals. They needed great goaltending and some luck to win for sure but they were also both vastly inferior teams in terms of skill. When teams protect the middle we are far too content to control the puck on the outside and win the puck possession battle while generating very few chances in tight. Combined with our penchant to make horrifyingly bad defensive miscues and give up soft goals, bad teams know how to beat us. If a good team plays us like that (eg. Tampa or Florida) we'll get steamrolled unless we get our act together and are willing to fight for the middle of the ice.

It's absolutely true if we play like that, control the game to that extent we will win most of the time. But that doesn't mean we should be concerned about what happened, and I'm not talking about the loss, I'm talking about why we lost. Once again way too content to play on the perimeter - go to the net, score an ugly goal or two, if we fight for the middle of the ice we win that game regardless of how well Demko plays.

At least we’re able to detect these problems fairly early in the season. If they’ve been spending a lot of time preach puck possession and spam attacking from the perimeter and getting boxed out and people tuning in on TV are getting hip to the fact that the heat maps, shot count and zone time may be telling a misleading story, maybe the team will realize this too and start finding ways to attack the slot, use cross seam plays to open things up, dump and chase with a vigorous forecheck to stop teams setting up so tight or when all else fails just drive the net with speed.

 

[griffon1]

Holl doesn't wear #8

No and it wouldn't help him. He needs a location change, not a number change.

Would be nice if Muzz was a little better too, but Holl is on his way out before playoffs, Muzz will still be here until he gets injured a few games in.

 

[Gallagbi]

At least we’re able to detect these problems fairly early in the season. If they’ve been spending a lot of time preach puck possession and spam attacking from the perimeter and getting boxed out and people tuning in on TV are getting hip to the fact that the heat maps, shot count and zone time may be telling a misleading story, maybe the team will realize this too and start finding ways to attack the slot, use cross seam plays to open things up, dump and chase with a vigorous forecheck to stop teams setting up so tight or when all else fails just drive the net with speed.

They had a significant number of prime chances low and from the slot last night. Many were clean looks.

Much different game than vs. CGY

People should stop typing to force their narrative on games that don't fit simply because of the result.

 

[Zybalto]

Calgary was much more of a perimeter game. The Nucks gave up a significant amount of prime, slot and down low chances last night we simply didn't convert on.

The Flames played a defensively sound game against us, that was relatively even. Last night the Nucks were bailed out by goaltending, and our goaltenders struggle in both games.

Somewhat agree with this.

Scoring chances were much tighter last game but the Leafs still had a solid edge against the Flames as the pure volume shooting should have produced a good bounce or two more than it did as the Leafs completely outworked them much of the time but last night was pure domination at a different level as the Leafs were getting prime looks nonstop. I think just the refs actually being competent would have seen this a 6-2 type score as the Canucks were getting away with murder with interference/slashing and it's fitting the refs handed them the game at the end.

 

[ShaneFalco]

People really have to stop looking at this team through a regular season type lense...there is only question now....is this team ready to win verses a battle tested contender in a long hard fought physical playoff series...and the answer right now is...no fricken way

 

[Gallagbi]

Somewhat agree with this.

Scoring chances were much tighter last game but the Leafs still had a solid edge against the Flames as the pure volume shooting should have produced a good bounce or two more than it did as the Leafs completely outworked them much of the time but last night was pure domination at a different level as the Leafs were getting prime looks nonstop. I think just the refs actually being competent would have seen this a 6-2 type score as the Canucks were getting away with murder with interference/slashing and it's fitting the refs handed them the game at the end.

Agreed, I'm not saying we were outplayed by CGY, chances both ways were limited and it should have played out in a tighter 2-1/3-2 esque game

Last night could have easily been a 5/6-1 game for the Leafs. I just didn't see that possibility without brutal goaltending against CGY, which oddly enough is the way we lost it by a large margin

 

[therealkoho]

No and it wouldn't help him. He needs a location change, not a number change.

Would be nice if Muzz was a little better too, but Holl is on his way out before playoffs, Muzz will still be here until he gets injured a few games in.

The last two weeks were some of Holl's best hockey of the season, and it was above average play and what you should expect from a guy playing the 4 spot. Early in the season Holl was struggling and funny enough partnering with Muzzin, Muzzin comes back into the line-up and Holl is suddenly making mental errors, no correlation you think?

 

[Zybalto]

People really have to stop looking at this team through a regular season type lense...there is only question now....is this team ready to win verses a battle tested contender in a long hard fought physical playoff series...and the answer right now is...no fricken way

I think this team would be a pickem against the Lightning and I think both teams take out the Panthers.

 

[AvroArrow]

The fact that Vancouver had 5 powerplays and we had 3 is an absolute joke LOL. I honestly cannot f***ing stand game management. NHL refs "Hey this teams absolute dog shit and get pounded, so lets just let them get away with about 10 penalties so it's a more evenly matched game" #logic

That Tavares play was one of the worst ones I've seen. Takes a two handed hack at him, no call, half a second later Tavares gets called for a high stick, unf***ingbelievable. Proud of everyones effort except Mrazek, our goaltending is horrific right now. This needs to fixed asap, we cannot go into the playoffs like this. Complete domination, that was probably a more dominant performance than the game against New Jersey that we won 7-1, but somehow come away with a loss. Full points to Demko, he went absolute god mode but Canucks should not have been in that game at all. This game management nonsense needs to end.

 

[Gallagbi]

I think this team would be a pickem against the Lightning and I think both teams take out the Panthers.

Goaltending is a real wild card for us, same with the Panthers. TB will have a big edge there

 

[Gallagbi]

The last two weeks were some of Holl's best hockey of the season, and it was above average play and what you should expect from a guy playing the 4 spot. Early in the season Holl was struggling and funny enough partnering with Muzzin, Muzzin comes back into the line-up and Holl is suddenly making mental errors, no correlation you think?

Feels like he tries to play too safe with Muzzin, like on that first goal against last night. The boards are cutoff, don't force it there because it's the "safe" area". Then both struggle with acceleration and puck handling, so they're constantly under pressure.

Go back to Sandin - Holl and Muzz - Lilj

 

[Zybalto]

Goaltending is a real wild card for us, same with the Panthers. TB will have a big edge there

Will we get Vezina level Jack or Jack of the last month?

Both appeared in the last series against the Habs. I just want him to be good for a month for us later on....

 

[ToneDog]

The fact that Vancouver had 5 powerplays and we had 3 is an absolute joke LOL. I honestly cannot f***ing stand game management. NHL refs "Hey this teams absolute dog shit and get pounded, so lets just let them get away with about 10 penalties so it's a more evenly matched game" #logic

That Tavares play was one of the worst ones I've seen. Takes a two handed hack at him, no call, half a second later Tavares gets called for a high stick, unf***ingbelievable. Proud of everyones effort except Mrazek, our goaltending is horrific right now. This needs to fixed asap, we cannot go into the playoffs like this. Complete domination, that was probably a more dominant performance than the game against New Jersey that we won 7-1, but somehow come away with a loss. Full points to Demko, he went absolute god mode but Canucks should not have been in that game at all. This game management nonsense needs to end.

Add that there was a delayed penalty on 35 on the first Canucks goal. I can handle dumb referees during the season but the garbage they pull in the playoff, not so much.

 

[Mess]

Lol. I remember Madden always saying sometimes when you say you have 3 RB'S it really means you have none.

Yup same basic principle ..

This is going to be the first year in a long time where Leafs will enter the playoffs with a tandem goaltending plan and rotational system rather than a clear cut #1 at present.

 

[Stephen]

They had a significant number of prime chances low and from the slot last night. Many were clean looks.

Much different game than vs. CGY

People should stop typing to force their narrative on games that don't fit simply because of the result.

Whenever these high volume shot events and low production events occur, it's important to realize other teams are falling back on a pretty successful formula. Both games fell into similar patterns. Like I said the other night the Calgary game probably should have ended as a 3-2 road loss (or 3-2 road win) as the Canucks game actually did.

Calgary was more textbook park the bus on the defensive side since they thrive in that style of game but Bruce Boudreau had the Canucks playing a similar style with OEL, Myers, Schenn, Hamonic collapsing down low, blocking up the shot option from the slot and gambling Demko would come up big on the perimeter shot and have the man advantage on the rebound scramble.

I wouldn't be surprised if you saw the same thing from Seattle on Monday with guys like Oleksiak, Geekie, Fleury, Soucy, etc. suddenly looking like a redwood forest in front of the net and Grubauer looking strong behind them.