GDT: Canes Look To Shoot Down The Jets

Sigurd

Slavin, our Lord and Saver (AKA Extra Goalie)
Feb 4, 2018
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I'd rather have a "teaching moment" like this in the regular season when it likely has no impact on anything but the team's pride as opposed to the playoffs.
I'd agree with you, but how many teaching moments has this team had in the playoffs for several years in a row now? How many more teaching moments do they need exactly? They aren't the young and upcoming 2018-2019 Hurricanes anymore.

Btw, I had to double post because I wasn't able to edit your quote into my last post. Fun chat board problem.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
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Yup. But continues our weak record against wests best though.

Dallas and Winnipeg size have been diffeeence makers (plus our crap goal tending today).
I wouldn't even call our goaltending an issue outside the first one. 2nd goal complete defensive breakdown, 3rd goal was a bs non call combined with a defensive breakdown on the kill, and the final one before I said "f*** this" and left was a bad pinch and Kooch trying something out of desperation.
 
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The Jerk Store

Felix Unger Score'em
Jul 2, 2012
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Hills to the North
I'd agree with you, but how many teaching moments has this team had in the playoffs for several years in a row now? How many more teaching moments do they need exactly? They aren't the young and upcoming 2018-2019 Hurricanes anymore.

Btw, I had to double post because I wasn't able to edit your quote into my last post. Fun chat board problem.
It’s more of a “teaching moment” or reminder for Kochetkov, but the whole team apparently could benefit as well. The team went into the locker room after forty minutes believing the game was won.
 
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chaz4hockey

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I wouldn't even call our goaltending an issue outside the first one. 2nd goal eatta complete defensive breakdown, 3rd goal was a bs non call combined with a defensive breakdown on the kill, and the final one before I said "f*** this" and left was a bad pinch and Kooch trying something out of desperation.
First one was the killer. Shifted momentum.
 
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Stickpucker

Playmaka
Jan 18, 2014
16,228
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Iconic duos
Orlov and drink
Necas and losing the puck
KK and falling down
PK and losing his stick
Svech and taking penalties
Canes and making things unnecessarily hard

Did I miss any?
Candy Canes

Iconic duos
Orlov and drink
Necas and losing the puck
KK and falling down
PK and losing his stick
Svech and taking penalties
Canes and making things unnecessarily hard

Did I miss any?
Make a fn save
 
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3CanesInTheBox

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I get people getting ticked off from an epic choke job loss, but how does this relate to the deadline in any material way? We need an offensive game changer. I think we all agree. But, having that player has nothing to do with crapping the bed after already putting up a 3 spot on the opposition. Just a horrible game.
 

Stickpucker

Playmaka
Jan 18, 2014
16,228
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I get people getting ticked off from an epic choke job loss, but how does this relate to the deadline in any material way? We need an offensive game changer. I think we all agree. But, having that player has nothing to do with crapping the bed after already putting up a 3 spot on the opposition. Just a horrible game.
Another goal in the 3rd would've been huge.

Turlington up is a recipe for....well this or whatever it was Lempo was cooking.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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Gee, I feel sorry for the thousands of people who spent hundreds of dollars on a meaningless game.
People go to games to be entertained and with the understanding the their team may lose. A March game when the team is comfortably in the playoffs doesn't mean a whole lot and fans know that going in so I don't feel sorry for them.

For the past 4 years, fans have complained that the Canes going too hard every period of every game during the season and being worn out by the playoffs. I'm not suggesting the purposely took their foot off the gas, but their goal is no longer to win the regular season, their goal is to succeed in the playoffs. There will be games down the stretch where there will be lapses like this. It's natural.
 

Daeavorn

livin' that no caps life
Oct 8, 2019
2,005
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So I didn't get to watch this game but I did follow it.

I'm not that upset I have to admit. In an 82 game season you're going to get one or two stinkers or massive choke jobs. Just purely based on statistics.

The pokecheck was going to bite him in the ass eventually and I'm okay with that happening now it's a good learning moment for him. Really not that worried about him over all.

Seems like the third period was kind of a cavalcade of mistakes and bad luck.

Brush it off and move on, imo.
 

chaz4hockey

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People go to games to be entertained and with the understanding the their team may lose. A March game when the team is comfortably in the playoffs doesn't mean a whole lot and fans know that going in so I don't feel sorry for them.

For the past 4 years, fans have complained that the Canes going too hard every period of every game during the season and being worn out by the playoffs. I'm not suggesting the purposely took their foot off the gas, but their goal is no longer to win the regular season, their goal is to succeed in the playoffs. There will be games down the stretch where there will be lapses like this. It's natural.
BBA-
All you say is true but they need to get up for and play hard against the better teams..:and get results.

I’ll suffer through a Columbus loss due to lack of effort but Winnipeg, Dallas, Edmonton Florida rangers Boston avs you expect a superior game/effort because they are your test games for the playoffs.

Right now not looking good re league best teams.
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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BBA-
All you say is true but they need to get up for and play hard against the better teams..:and get results.

I’ll suffer through a Columbus loss due to lack of effort but Winnipeg, Dallas, Edmonton Florida rangers Boston avs you expect a superior game/effort because they are your test games for the playoffs.

Right now not looking good re league best teams.
Now that Carolina is a good team, none of it matters until the playoffs.

Boston crushed everyone last year and got bounced. Toronto always looks good against top teams and rarely makes it past the 1st round. TBL was unbeatable a few years ago and got beat by CLB in the first round. Florida was the top team in the NHL 2 seasons ago and got bounced, they barely squeaked in last year and got to the SCF.

I'm not suggesting that the Canes don't have some needs they should address. They certainly do. I've said ever since the KK trade that I think they need more top 6 talent and they still do. I think everyone agrees. Due to injuries, their goaltending is a question mark and I hope Andersen comes back.

That's totally irrelevant to a regular season win over Florida and Vegas, and a regular season loss WPG.
 

geehaad

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Winnipeg, Dallas, Edmonton Florida rangers Boston avs you expect a superior game/effort because they are your test games for the playoffs.

Right now not looking good re league best teams.
Is that true, though? Here are who I would consider to be the top teams we've played since Dec 12:

WPG: L
VGK: Wx2
DAL: Lx2
AVS: W
VAN: L
BOS: W
NYR: W
TOR: W

In my view, a 6-4 record isn't "not looking good".
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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Is that true, though? Here are who I would consider to be the top teams we've played since Dec 12:

WPG: L
VGK: Wx2
DAL: Lx2
AVS: W
VAN: L
BOS: W
NYR: W
TOR: W

In my view, a 6-4 record isn't "not looking good".
and IIRC, every one of those losses were 1 goal games (excluding empty nets).
 

chaz4hockey

Old man but still a PP2 Candidate
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Is that true, though? Here are who I would consider to be the top teams we've played since Dec 12:

WPG: L
VGK: Wx2
DAL: Lx2
AVS: W
VAN: L
BOS: W
NYR: W
TOR: W

In my view, a 6-4 record isn't "not looking good".
Well, you can always cherry pick games (ie with Vegas’ injuries & eichel out you can argue that our two wins were not against their playoff squad).

I count them all & we lost to rangers and avs on the road & Vancouver is 2 losses, not 1. Fl was a push.

In any event, as always there is a section of the fan base that is optimistic. That’s is your right.

Put me in the category of slightly pessimistic and yesterday’s loss brought a foreboding that unless changes are made at the deadline once again this team doesn’t have the assets to win.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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It's not about being optimistic or pessimistic, it's about looking at the big picture and not getting so worked up about every single regular season game, win or lose. Just as the Florida win didn't mean that much, neither did this loss.

- Canes have been the 3rd best team in the NHL since Dec 12th (which was a turning point in the season after starting off horribly and having a players only meeting). They've done this with Svech battling injuries and using a 3rd and 4th (off of waivers) string goalie.
- Canes are comfortably in a playoff spot and aren't likely going treat every game like a must win, no matter who it's against. TB in their cup winning years were the same.
- Most everyone agrees, that for Carolina to go further in the playoffs they need more top 6 scoring talent and we need our goaltending to stablize.

This loss (or if they would have won) doesn't change that.

I'm confident the Canes will make the playoffs. I expect them to win at least 1 round (of course, match-ups matter). I expect them to struggle beyond that if they don't get more scoring talent and their goaltending situation sorted out.
 

MisterDobz

Tryin to Reason with Hurricane Season
Apr 13, 2022
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People go to games to be entertained and with the understanding the their team may lose. A March game when the team is comfortably in the playoffs doesn't mean a whole lot and fans know that going in so I don't feel sorry for them.

For the past 4 years, fans have complained that the Canes going too hard every period of every game during the season and being worn out by the playoffs. I'm not suggesting the purposely took their foot off the gas, but their goal is no longer to win the regular season, their goal is to succeed in the playoffs. There will be games down the stretch where there will be lapses like this. It's natural.
BBA, I have huge respect for you, but I have much to disagree with in this post. First, there is a huge difference in the mind of a fan between a game that is ‘meaningless’ and a game that your team might lose. As a fan I’ll pay the price of a game my team might lose, not sure I would pay to attend a meaningless game, certainly wouldn’t pay full price. (See: pre-season)

I disagree that this game had no meaning. If they had won the game, with the rangers taking an otl, the canes could have closed the gap to three points, first place in the division certainly has meaning in seed, matchups and playoff home games.

I’d also lean on the old adage that two points in October count exactly the same as two points in March. Whether this game is meaningless or not can’t be known until we’re looking back after the season. If the finish second by a point or third by a point, then every point was meaningful.

But the biggest meaning I saw in this game was in the character of the team. They took a game they should have won and found a way to lose. Just as I posted after the Minn win was a ‘character’ win, this was a ‘character’ loss. Playoffs are determined by character, and this game was very meaningful because it reflected the character of the team (As did the Minn game)

I’m not all doom and gloom on this team, but this game and the teams record against the top teams, as reviewed above, shows that this team IS an average team, more accurately an average playoff team. That’s all my original post said, I stand by it.

Btw, I’d wager a sizable amount that Winnipeg doesn’t think this game was meaningless.
 

MisterDobz

Tryin to Reason with Hurricane Season
Apr 13, 2022
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It's not about being optimistic or pessimistic, it's about looking at the big picture and not getting so worked up about every single regular season game, win or lose. Just as the Florida win didn't mean that much, neither did this loss.

- Canes have been the 3rd best team in the NHL since Dec 12th (which was a turning point in the season after starting off horribly and having a players only meeting). They've done this with Svech battling injuries and using a 3rd and 4th (off of waivers) string goalie.
- Canes are comfortably in a playoff spot and aren't likely going treat every game like a must win, no matter who it's against. TB in their cup winning years were the same.
- Most everyone agrees, that for Carolina to go further in the playoffs they need more top 6 scoring talent and we need our goaltending to stablize.

This loss (or if they would have won) doesn't change that.

I'm confident the Canes will make the playoffs. if they don't get more scoring talent and their goaltending situation sorted out.
After reading this post, and re reading mine, I can only come to the conclusion that we are in violent agreement. My whole point was that the canes are an average playoff team, if I had to describe an average playoff team I would do it this way. I expect them to win at least 1 round (of course, match-ups matter). I expect them to struggle beyond that.

You approach it from the direction of statistics, I approach it from the character aspect. But we come to the same conclusion.

My major disappointment with yesterday’s game comes from the expectation that the canes are a better than that. Last year we got to the conference finals with no patches, no Svech and shakey goaltending. This year Svech is back, Jarvis has improved and I am sure that bunting will score more playoff points for us than patches did. The goaltending is still suspect. But that should lead to an improved result, not a team that will struggle.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
49,318
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BBA, I have huge respect for you, but I have much to disagree with in this post. First, there is a huge difference in the mind of a fan between a game that is ‘meaningless’ and a game that your team might lose. As a fan I’ll pay the price of a game my team might lose, not sure I would pay to attend a meaningless game, certainly wouldn’t pay full price. (See: pre-season)
To be clear, I didn't call the game "meaningless". My comment was this game doesn't "mean a whole lot". Of course 2 points is 2 points, but 2 points when you are 14 points up on the highest team outside the playoffs (points above the NYI before last night) with 20 games to play isn't as meaningful than a bubble team struggling to keep or get into the playoffs (like we were in 18-19)

That's fine if that's how you feel, but my point is, I don't think it reflect fans in general. Fans buy season's tickets knowing that there will be less meaningful games or games the team doesn't give its all. Businesses buy blocks of games knowing that some games like that, etc....

In fact, during the dark years from 08/09-18/19, I bought season tickets for 7 straight seasons, knowing full well that the team would likely be playing a bunch of games that really didn't matter much after the holidays. Year after year.

We have 14,000 season ticket holders (full, half, partial) and all of them are buying knowing that there will be games with less meaning and worse performances than others.

I get it for some single game purchasers, but many of those fans are buying because of the team coming to town. I went to Vancouver because my son is a Vancouver fan. I often go to the Rangers and Islanders because my buddies are Rangers and Islanders fans, etc...

So I stand by it. I don't feel sorry for fans buying a ticket for a less meaningful game. It goes with being a fan.

I disagree that this game had no meaning. If they had won the game, with the rangers taking an otl, the canes could have closed the gap to three points, first place in the division certainly has meaning in seed, matchups and playoff home games.
Sure, I agree with that. Every game has "some" meaning in that 2 points are 2 points. When a team is comfortably in a playoff spot, the game has less meaning in the big picture than a team on the bubble. That's what I read into the other posters comment about this being meaningless, but I could be wrong.
I’d also lean on the old adage that two points in October count exactly the same as two points in March. Whether this game is meaningless or not can’t be known until we’re looking back after the season. If the finish second by a point or third by a point, then every point was meaningful.
See my response above.
But the biggest meaning I saw in this game was in the character of the team. They took a game they should have won and found a way to lose. Just as I posted after the Minn win was a ‘character’ win, this was a ‘character’ loss. Playoffs are determined by character, and this game was very meaningful because it reflected the character of the team (As did the Minn game)
We can disagree here. Regular season is 82 games and I'm not determining character out of 1-2 games. I prefer to look at the body of work as a whole vs. individual games to make assessments.
I’m not all doom and gloom on this team, but this game and the teams record against the top teams, as reviewed above, shows that this team IS an average team, more accurately an average playoff team. That’s all my original post said, I stand by it.
They certainly aren't an "Average" team. They have the 3rd best record since they turned it around on Dec 12th. They are top 10 in points even with that horrible start. That's not average.

In terms of "average playoff team", 16 teams make the playoffs so saying they are in the 6-10 range (what I would consider average) out of 16 teams is reasonable. I don't disagree with that.

I've said time and time again that I think they need to add more scoring / top 6 talent or they will struggle to get deep into the playoffs. I still think that. I don't think their character is an issue though, I think their lack of talent in the top 6 and an unstable goaltending situation are the concerns. There character is what has taken them as deep as they've got in the past and I'm not worried about that.

Btw, I’d wager a sizable amount that Winnipeg doesn’t think this game was meaningless.
Sure, just like I'm sure we put more meaning into the Florida game than they did. It happens.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
49,318
102,034
After reading this post, and re reading mine, I can only come to the conclusion that we are in violent agreement. My whole point was that the canes are an average playoff team, if I had to describe an average playoff team I would do it this way. I expect them to win at least 1 round (of course, match-ups matter). I expect them to struggle beyond that.

You approach it from the direction of statistics, I approach it from the character aspect. But we come to the same conclusion.

My major disappointment with yesterday’s game comes from the expectation that the canes are a better than that. Last year we got to the conference finals with no patches, no Svech and shakey goaltending. This year Svech is back, Jarvis has improved and I am sure that bunting will score more playoff points for us than patches did. The goaltending is still suspect. But that should lead to an improved result, not a team that will struggle.
Violent disagreement? You might be taking this a bit too seriously.

So let's say this. We both agree:
1) The team will make the playoffs
2) The team should win 1 round (depending on match-ups)
3) The team will struggle past the 1st round

So we agree on this, correct?

Do you also agree that our goaltending, while being better recently is still unproven and unsettled?
Do you also agree that we need more scoring talent in our top 6?

Where we disagree (from what I can tell), is that you are determining a team's character on a sample of individual regular games and I prefer to look at a larger body of work? Correct?

Doesn't sound very violent to me, but to each their own .
 

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