Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

Status
Not open for further replies.

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,999
21,338
That’s a pretty stacked roster isn’t it
No, 05 was the stacked roster. I think you're thinking of the 03 Draft which was pretty stacked (and a number of guys from the 03 draft were on the 05 WJC team). The 03 roster (which didn't win gold) had a number of guys that went on to be depth guys but the only real future star on the team was Marc-Andre Fleury.
 

Transplanted Caper

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 24, 2003
29,961
3,055
So, Westhead for Hart, Vezina (for saving the hockey) and Masterton trophy next season?
Strang for Ted Lindsay

Intressting what reporters who dont suck up for the league dig up...

It's certainly been a really bad look for hockey media more broadly. On Chicago, on London, and now on Halifax. All these people who fight tooth and nail to be the first to break the news where a random 3rd liner is signing, seem to always have the bat on their shoulder when these stories break.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,999
21,338
I won't go name by name, but most of those players either haven't given a statement, or have given softer statements.
I think we can probably venn diagram and assume that those players were probably, on a more likely than not, basis, part of the group that was in the hotel room.
 
  • Like
Reactions: seventieslord

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,999
21,338
It's certainly been a really bad look for hockey media more broadly. On Chicago, on London, and now on Halifax. All these people who fight tooth and nail to be the first to break the news where a random 3rd liner is signing, seem to always have the bat on their shoulder when these stories break.
because hockey media is firmly engrained in the "old boys club" and will write nice things and not report on the not so nice things to gain access and be part of the group. Even on a much less serious basis, you see some hockey bubble local medias (Edmonton jumps to mind) that will very seldom ever actually go after ownership and management for over 15 years of poor decision-making and direct all their ire towards the players themselves for essentially not being better. Very few good and truly independent journalists that are OK with making those at the top feel a little uncomfortable.
 

Deuce22

Registered User
Jun 17, 2013
6,100
8,727
SoCal & Idaho
It's interesting that you are willing to question her character, but you are steadfast that we shouldn't make judgements on the accused. Feels a bit less like "wait and see" and a bit more like "I believe she's lying until a criminal court presses charges" to me.
Where did I question her character?
 

Dr Pepper

Registered User
Dec 9, 2005
71,457
17,151
Sunny Etobicoke
No, 05 was the stacked roster. I think you're thinking of the 03 Draft which was pretty stacked (and a number of guys from the 03 draft were on the 05 WJC team). The 03 roster (which didn't win gold) had a number of guys that went on to be depth guys but the only real future star on the team was Marc-Andre Fleury.

'03 was the fluke goal off O'Sullivan, wasn't it?

MAF with the unluckiest attempted clear ever. :laugh:
 

JoeCool16

Registered User
Sep 9, 2011
2,526
294
Vancouver
Please, usual suspects, tell me how there’s not a rotten core to this hockey culture we have.
I think it's prevalent in all competitive sports (especially when the home country celebrates it... IE, hockey in Canada, football in the States), but hockey's has always had the weird "our athletes are different" vibe. How many actually ARE the squeaky-clean, hard-working but do no wrong stereotype? Sidney Crosby? I mean, we always want them to show MORE personality and ditch the canned responses, but that's all part of maintaining this good boys image. Underneath, there's going to be a ton of super arrogant, hyper competitive kids dedicated to the worst aspects of team culture that'd allow stuff like this to (A)happen and (B)get kept quiet.

It's also nice that we're addressing this culture more in our society (despite that variations of it exist well beyond hockey and sports), but there's still the other part... that corporations happily sweep stuff like this under the rug if they think they can get away from it. I also seriously doubt that's an old boys club thing that can be fixed by swapping out the existing Hockey Canada leadership... I think it's more a power thing that comes with treating junior sports/college sports as an industry.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
25,037
11,831
This discussion isn't a legal process. By only questioning the victim's statements and the validity of the complaints, I would say you have chosen a side.


I always wonder why a poster would try to decide what I side I have taken when I clearly stated that I'm not about taking sides but seeing where the evidence leaves as to when and if I make a decision but maybe you know me better than I do?

You are right, the rest of us are lacking in critical thinking and ignoring the facts by believing the victim.


Yes by ignoring facts that is a lack of critical thinking application, as to the reason why that's your assertion not mine.

There is not really a coherent thought here, but I'll try - you are saying HC made the settlement to avoid a public shitstorm, and for political reasons? Can you just confirm that?


I'll make it more clear, HC in part settled the claim, like most organizations would, likely in part to avoid the media shitstorm that they now have.

The government panel is more fervently looking into this perhaps in part to avoid media attention elsewhere which is a fairly easy observation as I'm a student of politics and have followed politics very closely for over 40 years.

Government and especially political institutions can want the truth, fairness, justice you name it, and other things at the same time.

That is not what you are doing. You are labelling people as "internet justice mobs" because they read the victim's complaint and have decided to support her, and support a more thorough investigation into what happened.

No I'm calling a duck a duck, when people are making lists and calling people rapists ect those actions are from a mob mentality and when process and nuance is pointed out mob mentality answers are given.

i.e the certain poster who refers to "you guys" and "rapist apologists" which is just plain nonsensical to be polite about it.
You've decided that everyone who believes her is part of this "internet justice mob", and from this last post, you seem to also believe that you alone have the critical thinking skills to make any kind of personal opinion on the matter.


Once again you said reframe from speculating on what others think and perhaps spend more time reading posts and listening to what they are saying instead of making your own narrative about the posters.

So essentially you are lumping all of us in with a few people who are overzealous?

No I'm calling the overzealous overzealous by what they post and for overlooking us concluding facts without much basis.
This is a cowardly tactic taken straight from the world of politics.

No as I actually am not doing the "lumping all of us with a few people thing" so your point is moot.

Thank you for posting this. When I think back on where this discussion thread started (you calling people you disagree with the "internet justice mob" or something along those line), I can't help but chuckle at the absuridtiy of the above quote.

I'm glad that your moral judgment is selective and not all encompassing.

Sadly (unless you have posted again and I haven't seen it) there was no response to actually making real changes to not have incidents like this happen again.

That was one of my earliest posts in this thread about the overall problem and why we should try to make attempts to actually fix it instead of playing armchair police judge and jury here.

But maybe I'm being too much of a dreamer here as another poster is still more interested in scoring points when I asked them directly about what they would do to bring about positive changes.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,999
21,338
the "wait for the facts" crowd is all too eager to wildly speculate on the victim's motives or character with absolutely zero basis behind that. I guess for some, only hockey boys are entitled to not have any judgment passed on them until every single bit of detail is known (and often by that point, the talking point has shifted to "you're still talking about this? move on already!")
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,999
21,338
I think it's prevalent in all competitive sports (especially when the home country celebrates it... IE, hockey in Canada, football in the States), but hockey's has always had the weird "our athletes are different" vibe.
Yeah... and people don't want to say the quiet part out loud. Look at all the "it's definitely (based on my own personal inkling of course) WAYYYYY more prevalent with football and basketball players!" I wonder what possesses them to claim that so confidently...
 

Deuce22

Registered User
Jun 17, 2013
6,100
8,727
SoCal & Idaho
Does this not imply that you feel she is lying, fabricating, or at the very least, exaggerating?



To me, that would be a shot at her character.
She was supposedly extremely drunk. As I have been in that condition a time or two, I am aware that a clear memory, good judgement, and 20-20 vision are not usually present. The statements I was referring to were those of the players through their representation, not those of the woman.
 

swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.STEVE★
Jul 26, 2005
24,394
14,151
So much this ^.

I can totally understand the nuances of a situation where a young man and woman meet in a bar after multiple drinks, go to a hotel room and do their thing, with differing feelings afterwards.

What I don't get is the player who takes the woman to his room, gets his rocks off, then invites at least 7 (sounds like more came, but some begged off, probably out of disgust) of his buddies to the hotel room so that they use her like a piece of trash. Legality aside, those young men have shown a side of themselves that is pretty appalling. The fact that they have had others to cover their actions up at the cost of millions of public, or semi- public dollars , adds insult to injury.
Do we know the first guy invited the others for this purpose?

Don't forget, these are 17/18 yr olds. Hotel rooms are one of the few places they can hook up.

It wouldn't shock me if the events unfolded like this: The others came up to the room for some sort of afterparty, and/or knew and wanted to prank/surprise the first guy. Then the first guy probably had an "oh shit, the boys are here for the afterparty! throw some clothes on!" moment. Then the 9 of them probably hung out for a while, had some drinks, while things gradually escalated to a gross level. Probably starting with random ass grabbings, then "you should make out with him", then you should take your top off, then you should do x to that guy, then to the point where it was a full on gang rape. We know these events took place over the course of a few hours until 4am, and some guys left early, before partaking in any of these acts, probably in disgust.

It's important to understand how sexual assault often takes place. People always assume it's like in the movies, where rapists are aggressive and physically restrain the victim. Often times, that's not the reality. It often starts very gradually, until the victim is uncomfortable, withdraws consent (assuming she gave consent), but the aggressor(s) don't stop.

I saw some people in this thread talk about golf clubs.... I just don't think that necessarily means anything. It could have been related to the assault, but I think it's far more likely it had nothing to do with it.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
25,037
11,831
It's a bit philosophical in that the rule of law is mostly about everyone being subject to the law and no one, like the king, being above it or exempt from it.

The presumption of innocence is more about making sure the state, which prosecutes criminal cases, cannot use the law as a means of persecution or subjugation.

The presumption of innocence has become a sort of catch-all for saying that you can't hold someone accountable for an alleged action until they are found culpable in a criminal proceeding. My view is that this is a perversion of the original intent or, more likely, a natural evolution of self-interested power dynamics that shape the legal system and its many tentacles.

But I'm not a juridical scholar. I run redlines and argue about indemnities for a living.

Fair enough and I also think that people should be held accountable both for their actions and inactions and that we as a society should learn from our mistakes and past and try to make actual changes for the better.

To me this is much more important than whatever one wants to call what is happening in 75% of this thread.

I'll state it again, young people who don't have a real solid relationship or newly meet and hook up combined with alcohol and other factors like team dynamics for example is a minefield for a variety of outcomes that all participants might or could upon reflection might have wanted to have been avoided and forms a huge spectrum from lack of communication and seconds thoughts to full out rape it's not an either or thing but a rather lack spectrum that is fraught with huge problems in a type of discussion such as the one on here or other social platforms.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad