Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[Mingus Dew]

Based on the allegation, the victim did not make the complaint to police. The victim told her mom, and her mom made the allegation to police. The victim (either because she was pressured by John Doe A in text messages, or because she chose to do so of her own volition), reached out to police and rescinded the complaint.

It's a technicality, but that's all we know.

Maybe the victim went to her mom and said, "I was raped last night."
Or maybe the victim went to her mom and said, "This is what happened last night, I feel bad about it," and he mom said, "You were raped."

I imagine these specific details are what the investigations will seek to uncover, because they're important.

What we can't really answer, either, is why the victim never named the players involved (from what we know, she didn't give her mom names, she didn't give police names, and she didn't give HC names).

All fair. I'm not making a statement about this situation but instead the posts akin to "well what if she was willing at the time it was happening and then decided that it was rape the next morning because she was regretful/embarrassed".

I would say rightfully very little of the discourse focuses on false accusations.

More than I would like.

 

[TheBeard]

All fair. I'm not making a statement about this situation but instead the posts akin to "well what if she was willing at the time it was happening and then decided that it was rape the next morning because she was regretful/embarrassed".



More than I would like.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not it does happen.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don't understand how people are going on about "maybe this wasn't rape!" I'm not talking about from a criminal law standpoint, or from the standpoint that players from that world junior team need to be all rounded up and tossed in jail this very instant (the imaginary "witch hunt" that people are so worried about). I'm talking about from a common sense, "this is very likely what happened" standpoint.

Hockey Canada paid a big hush money settlement, the odds of this not being rape are extremely low, like under 3 %. If this were a case where the players were very confident in their innocence, it's very unlikely they would settle, as that comes off as a flaming admission of potential wrongdoing. Certainly not a very large settlement to an individual like this. The overwhelmingly logical conclusion is that this did happen, it was rape and that Hockey Canada was hoping to bury this incident as quickly and efficiently as possible so tried to muddy the waters just enough to avoid criminal investigation for their players and pay off the victim to avoid negative publicity. And who knows if this was the first time...

 

[Static]

Not really. It’s an honest question and does happen, although an overwhelming majority of the time the accusations are legitimate.

Women who are sexually assaulted hardly ever come forward at all. It's single digit level of reporting. Of the women who do come forward it's another (low) single digit number who falsify claims.

So, statistically, the number of women who both come forward and are lying is so small that I would say it is not worth further muddying the waters of an already fairly ignorant conversation.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not it does happen.

Agreed. I'm saying it's a statistical non-event in the context of sexual assault cases.

Women who are sexually assaulted hardly ever come forward at all. It's single digit level of reporting. Of the woman who do come forward it's another (low) single digit number who falsify claims.

So, statistically, the number of women who both come forward and are lying is so small that I would say it is not worth further muddying the waters of an already fairly ignorant conversation.

Here here.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Could someone give some empirical evidence that women get drunk, consent and then feel regret in the morning and decide to make a rape accusation and involve the police?

This. Does. Not. Happen.

Ridiculous bullshit narrative that needs to die.

The rates are unknown, and rape apologists do try and make it into a bigger issue than it is, but it can happen.

I think a better way to say this is that "regretful consensual intercourse leading to false rape allegations is believed to be statistically insignificant", or something like that.

 

[Mingus Dew]

The rates are unknown, and rape apologists do try and make it into a bigger issue than it is, but it can happen.

I think a better way to say this is that "regretful consensual intercourse leading to false rape allegations is believed to be statistically insignificant", or something like that.

Yes, that's more eloquent and less emotional than my wording.

 

[Atomos2]

What has the list widdled down to now?

 

[Scotianhab]

I believe So far just 7 players have said their innocent

Mete
Kyrou
Raddysh
Thomas
Timmins
Makar
Clague

 

[DueDiligence]

It's ok to punish a hockey federation for the transgressions of its nation, but punishing a hockey federation for the transgressions of a hockey federation is over the top? This would be a wakeup call and actually spring something into action, instead of everyone's preferred approach of sweeping this under the rug and hoping it blows over.

No, just the comparison.

 

[Silencio]

I believe So far just 5 players have said their innocent

Mete
Kyrou
Raddysh
Thomas
Timmins

Makar too

 

[Scotianhab]

Makar too

Ok I didn’t see Makar deny it. I added him.

 

[TheBeard]

Agreed. I'm saying it's a statistical non-event in the context of sexual assault cases.

It is, I was merely curious what the numbers are. It wasn’t to make a point.

 

[MXD]

I believe So far just 5 players have said their innocent

Mete
Kyrou
Raddysh
Thomas
Timmins
Makar

Kale Clague said he wasn't there in London, so he's a very safe add to that list.

 

[red devil]

Ok I didn’t see Makar deny it. I added him.

The star has article has players and representative statements that were made prior to yesterday. This doesn't include the statements from Kyrou, Thomas, Raddysh and Steel.

More players step forward in Hockey Canada sex assault investigation

Coyotes defenceman Connor Timmins is the 14th player from Canada’s 2018 world junior team of 22 to comment publicly. Some have proclaimed innocence. Most have promised co-operation.

www.thestar.com

 

[M88K]

Could someone give some empirical evidence that women get drunk, consent and then feel regret in the morning and decide to make a rape accusation and involve the police?

This. Does. Not. Happen.

Ridiculous bullshit narrative that needs to die.

It absolutely does happen, the usually precursor is said women sleeps with guy, guy brags to his friends , woman gets reputation she does like. Woman cries rape.

 

[Voight]

If the IIHF wasn't spineless, one idea would be that they'd ban Canada from all competitions until this matter is appropriately dealt with. After all, they were quick to kick Russia out for their government's invasion of a neighboring state. That would get the public to demand real action VERY quickly.

Are you serious? This is an incredibly bad take. Russia invaded a country for no real reason and as it turns out, committed war crimes.

Lets not act like Ukraine was a threat to their existence either.

What happened with the player looks bad. But banning Canada because of it would be a huge overreaction.

Could someone give some empirical evidence that women get drunk, consent and then feel regret in the morning and decide to make a rape accusation and involve the police?

This. Does. Not. Happen.

Ridiculous bullshit narrative that needs to die.

That is a stretch, it could happen. Likely isn't something that happens often but its not out of the realm of possibility.

If the NHL investigation (and/or any other investigation) establishes that these sexual acts took place, and that - as the girl said - she didn't consent to them, and that she was very drunk, and that she was asked to lie about whether or not she was sober.....I think it's very likely that the players involved are in big trouble with the NHL. Meaning, they'll be suspended for a very long time....or, most likely, permanently kicked out of the league.

The NHL is going to have to take it very seriously because they know a lot of people will not let them get away with doing nothing. Remember, the NHL effectively kicked Joel Quenneville out of the league, probably for life.

Craig MacTavish got drunk, drove and killed a women. He played another 10+ seasons.

I get its the MeToo era, but permanently kicked out of the league?

 

[Scotianhab]

So after reading that article it seems so far these players haven’t had any comment yet.

Formenton
Comtois
Batherson
Steenbergen
Mcloed
Howden.

 

[Voight]

I don't understand how people are going on about "maybe this wasn't rape!" I'm not talking about from a criminal law standpoint, or from the standpoint that players from that world junior team need to be all rounded up and tossed in jail this very instant (the imaginary "witch hunt" that people are so worried about). I'm talking about from a common sense, "this is very likely what happened" standpoint.

Hockey Canada paid a big hush money settlement, the odds of this not being rape are extremely low, like under 3 %. If this were a case where the players were very confident in their innocence, it's very unlikely they would settle, as that comes off as a flaming admission of potential wrongdoing. Certainly not a very large settlement to an individual like this. The overwhelmingly logical conclusion is that this did happen, it was rape and that Hockey Canada was hoping to bury this incident as quickly and efficiently as possible so tried to muddy the waters just enough to avoid criminal investigation for their players and pay off the victim to avoid negative publicity. And who knows if this was the first time...

Hockey Canada settled on behalf of the players, I could be mistaken but I don't believe they were aware of the lawsuit until TSN reported it?

 

[Quinning]

IMO minor hockey players starting around 15-16 years old that are playing in Major Junior should be forced to complete mandatory courses that outline responsibilities, both moral and fiscal, that come with potential future lifestyles they're about to obtain.

So much of this comes from like-minded ignorance. Buying into culture because that's "how it is" and perpetuating cycles of abuse because nobody wants to miss out on life-changing money and fame.

 

[PostBradMalone]

It absolutely does happen, the usually precursor is said women sleeps with guy, guy brags to his friends , woman gets reputation she does like. Woman cries rape.

Do you have authoritative sources (i.e. not anecdotes) of this exact scenario happening?

 

[RoadWarrior]

I don't understand how people are going on about "maybe this wasn't rape!" I'm not talking about from a criminal law standpoint, or from the standpoint that players from that world junior team need to be all rounded up and tossed in jail this very instant (the imaginary "witch hunt" that people are so worried about). I'm talking about from a common sense, "this is very likely what happened" standpoint.

Hockey Canada paid a big hush money settlement, the odds of this not being rape are extremely low, like under 3 %. If this were a case where the players were very confident in their innocence, it's very unlikely they would settle, as that comes off as a flaming admission of potential wrongdoing. Certainly not a very large settlement to an individual like this. The overwhelmingly logical conclusion is that this did happen, it was rape and that Hockey Canada was hoping to bury this incident as quickly and efficiently as possible so tried to muddy the waters just enough to avoid criminal investigation for their players and pay off the victim to avoid negative publicity. And who knows if this was the first time...

Hockey Canada paid a big hush money settlement, the odds of this not being rape are extremely low, like under 3 %.

The above statement is a common misconception. Settlements are frequently paid in cases where there is no criminal offense. The idea is to avoid a lengthy civil trail with lawyers who will charge more than the cost to settle the case. It's basic math and most corporations have these slush funds.

At this point the most likely scenario is that it was consensual but she later had some regrets and told her mother who probably overreacted calling police. However police found no wrongdoing in their investigation.

The parents likely threatened a civil lawsuit which eventually led to a settlement despite the conclusions of the police investigation.

Again the settlement is designed to avoid legal costs and keep it away from social media trolls. Guilt or innocence have little to do with it.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

I imagine these specific details are what the investigations will seek to uncover, because they're important.

What we can't really answer, either, is why the victim never named the players involved (from what we know, she didn't give her mom names, she didn't give police names, and she didn't give HC names).

What we can't really answer is why you insist on pretending in other posts that "there were investigations" as if they were the least bit credible. Or why you now insist to pontificate and tell us how it works: "Have no fear brave folks, these specific details are what the investigations will seek to uncover, trust the process!". Yeah right.

Do you even believe your own bullshit? We should sit passively and blindly trust a new investigation when the body that's in charge of said investigation is the very corrupt entity that apologized for being caught faking an investigation that really was just a massive gang rape coverup paid with public funds?

Not gonna happen in 2022, "bro".

Instead of always being concerned about the dots and commas and nuances in the rape victim's version, you should wake the f*** up, grow a spine and start questionning all the people and institutions that have failed the victim so far, some of which have kept lying about it in commission until more of their lies were exposed.

That is, unless you're OK with the many women in your life living in the kind of twisted world where they'll be told "trust the process of the bros" when this kind of shit happens to them.

PS: stop pretending "she didn't give the names to anybody". You look even goofier than usual when you go that far. Everybody at HC knows the name of her aggressors. You know that they know the names. This settlement is based in significant part on her willingness to not give up publicly the names of her aggressors, to preserve brand value of the 8 athletes and Hockey Canada.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hockey Canada paid a big hush money settlement, the odds of this not being rape are extremely low, like under 3 %.

The above statement is a common misconception. Settlements are frequently paid in cases where there is no criminal offense. The idea is to avoid a lengthy civil trail with lawyers who will charge more than the cost to settle the case. It's basic math and most corporations have these slush funds.

At this point the most likely scenario is that it was consensual but she later had some regrets and told her mother who probably overreacted calling police. However police found no wrongdoing in their investigation.

The parents likely threatened a civil lawsuit which eventually led to a settlement despite the conclusions of the police investigation.

Again the settlement is designed to avoid legal costs and keep it away from social media trolls. Guilt or innocence have little to do with it.

Settlements are paid a lot in business disputes where both sides realize there is some ambiguity involved and that it would be expensive and time-consuming to litigate for an uncertain outcome.

Paying out big dollar hush money in response to allegations that an organization believes are senseless is not common.

 

[DaveMatthew]

What we can't really answer is why you insist on pretending in other posts that "there were investigations" as if they were the least bit credible. Or why you now insist to pontificate and tell us how it works: "Have no fear brave folks, these specific details are what the investigations will seek to uncover, trust the process!". Yeah right.

Do you even believe your own bullshit? We should sit passively and blindly trust a new investigation when the body that's in charge of said investigation is the very corrupt entity that apologized for being caught faking an investigation that really was just a massive gang rape coverup paid with public funds?

Not gonna happen in 2022, "bro".

Instead of always being concerned about the dots and commas and nuances in the rape victim's version, you should wake the f*** up, grow a spine and start questionning all the people and institutions that have failed the victim so far, some of which have kept lying about it in commission until more of their lies were exposed.

That is, unless you're OK with the many women in your life living in the kind of twisted world where they'll be told "trust the process of the bros" when this kind of shit happens to them.

PS: stop pretending "she didn't give the names to anybody". You look even goofier than usual when you go that far. Everybody at HC knows the name of her aggressors. You know that they know the names. This settlement is based in significant part on her willingness to not give up publicly the names of her aggressors, to preserve brand value of the 8 athletes and Hockey Canada.

Relax. The NHL has launched an investigation, Hockey Canada is under tremendous scrutiny from the Federal Government and will now need to take part in a renewed 3rd party investigation, and with the amount of press this has received, you can bet law enforcement and the crown will take a fresh look at what occurred.

It's okay to not jump to conclusions about exactly what transpired and who was involved, at this point. I'm certainly not going to assume which players were or were not involved, and to what extent, based on boilerplate statements posted to IG accounts.

Also, you have no idea how the victim wanted this resolved, or what's best for her in this situation. Have you spoken with her? I didn't think so.

But go ahead, keep your internet sleuthing going. Who needs the judicial process. As long as we have anonymous posters on message boards and Twitter "reading between the lines", society is in good hands.