Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[wetcoast]

Didn’t know that
The MP doing the investigation took the picture or had one taken of him.

I think he is part of the panel and he took one details are here.

Bloc MP apologizes for taking photo of Liberal MP caught naked during video call | Globalnews.ca

Liberal MP William Amos was caught nude during a virtual meeting of Parliament last week.

globalnews.ca

 

[Dr Pepper]

You are not very good at this, and by this I mean coherent thought.

Russia is being systematically banned from most international events/competitions because they have been labelled a pariah state due to their actions in Ukraine. It is an action against the state, hence individual players have not been banned from the NHL or other club/individual sports. This is analogous to apartheid South Africa. Its the international community saying "as long as you do this, you are not a legitimate state."

Hockey Canada (potentially) doing a bad thing is not the same. First, it is being acknowledged as (potentially) wrong by the Canadian Government & Public and new oversight is being put in place. Its also not systematic or even proven yet.

An organisation within a country committing a wrong and being held to account within that country is REALLY FAR from deserving international sanctions...like as far as can be.

PS I didn't come to here to argue the fairness of Russian Sanctions when other countries do bad things as well (although I could). The point is that the Russian Sanctions and Hockey Canada scandle are in no way analogous.

"Potentially".

Sure thing, bud.

You're right, Hockey Canada's hands are totally clean on this one, what's all this fuss about anyways let's just watch some hockey, am I right?

Ffs.

 

[DaveMatthew]

We can ask for whatever we want and apply the pressure to get the names of those who are involved, with or without criminal charges. There is nothing (that we know of) stopping Hockey Canada from releasing a report on the investigation at the end of this that details the people involved and the various accounts. Then the public can make up their own mind, which is not dissimilar to if there was criminal charges, where people can still make up their own minds.

Sure. But there is also nothing that requires Hockey Canada to release the names, nor do they "owe" that to the public.

They can release the names and face possible legal repercussions from the player's lawyers.
They can withhold the names and face further PR backlash from politicians and the public.

We'll see what route they take.

 

[Budz]

Is there a compiled list of players already publicly denying their involvement?

I know…
Mete
Makar

 

[Silky Johnson]

Not a lawyer

But the fact that so many players have video OF THE EVENT is bordering on revenge porn territory

revenge porn is a felony in the states

You clearly aren't. It's specifically a felony is some states not all . Also this happened in Canada.

It's only revenge porn if it's shared.

I didn't know so many Puritans & Menonites were fans of hockey. I have participated in consensual group sex (inc.gang bangs) and have had consentual intimate videos. I am also sure that many others on here have as well.

What took place, as much as it may hurt your delicate sensibilities is irrelevant beyond the question of its consentuality.

If not consensual it's a crime. Crimes should be investigated by the police and prosecuted by the Crown. Not Hockey Canada.

If it was consensual, then it's fair play. Things like this would be less regretted after the fact if it wasn't for all the prudish Puritans around. (Not saying that is the case here)

 

[MXD]

Sure and there was a time in the past (when lots of other things weren't as good or progressive as today to be sure) where he would have stepped down and it would have been called honorable.

If we're going that route, William Amos would've resigned before, because that was the second time it occured.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

Sure. But there is also nothing that requires Hockey Canada to release the names, nor do they "owe" that to the public.

They can release the names and face possible legal repercussions from the player's lawyers.
They can withhold the names and face further PR backlash from politicians and the public.

We'll see what route they take.

Why make the insinuation that there are significant legal repercussions from saying that X players were involved in an alleged incident which has not been proven in court?

There are ways to do this quite easily I'd say without putting themselves in legal peril. Look at the NHL's investigative findings about various Blackhawks employees with Kyle Beach. Its easy to detail that "X player said Y happened", "victim said Z happened" and publish without opining.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Parties seems to speak of one voice on the HC issue, so, yeah, I'm not sure what you were trying to do regarding Sebastien Lemire other than putting his character into question.

Sounds like he should be replaced on the panel.

 

[A1LeafNation]

 

[Silky Johnson]

"Potentially".

Sure thing, bud.

You're right, Hockey Canada's hands are totally clean on this one, what's all this fuss about anyways let's just watch some hockey, am I right?

Ffs.

I am always careful to use words like "potencially" & "Alleged" until things have fully played out. It's good practice. It doesn't make for good Virtue Signalling but I will leave that to you.

I will remind you that Hockey Canda did involve the Police in this at the time.

You also didn't really comment on any point I made...

 

[Yackiberg8]

Seems like it was Comtois and Formenton then?

 

[wetcoast]

If they had all the information and disclosed it when asked, they wouldn't have needed to reopen the investigation though, no? One would presume they would have came with more adequate answers to the very obvious questions that are being asked regarding timeline, substance, and actionable items.

They very obviously didn't have all of the information at the time and neither did the police.

It was in an earlier article, either this thread or one of the previous ones where her (I'm going by memory here) father or stepfather found out about the incident and I think it was due her being upset but like I said going off of memory here, and when the police contacted her she said she didn't want to do anything same thing when the HC investigation contacted her.

I think that's part of the problem when people here are saying that HC should have done this or that at the time.

The London police also didn't continue their investigations apparently (since they don't comment publicly) for similar reasons.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

Is there a compiled list of players already publicly denying their involvement?

I know…
Mete
Makar

There is an article in the Star today that goes through the roster of who has denied involvement, wasn’t at the event or was not a CHL player.

After that article and Robert Thomas tweet today those who I’ve not seen issue a statement or denied are below. With exception of Katchouk whose statement was more vague and just said he cooperated with investigation without denying involvement.

Boris Katchouk
Maxime Comtois
Tyler Steenbergen
Drake Batherson
Michael McLeod
Brett Howden
Sam Steel
Alex Formenton

 

[Bevans]

Sure. But there is also nothing that requires Hockey Canada to release the names, nor do they "owe" that to the public.

They can release the names and face possible legal repercussions from the player's lawyers.
They can withhold the names and face further PR backlash from politicians and the public.

We'll see what route they take.

The disconnect between your level of confidence and knowledge is impressive.

 

[1specter]

Another one off the list. Down to 8 guys who have either made no statement or have had their representation simply say the investigation is ongoing and no comments will be made.

Also kinda makes sense given that he just signed a huge deal. Feel like if there was real doubts about him then St.Louis would've been more hesitant.

 

[Korpse]

There is an article in the Star today that goes through the roster of who has denied involvement, wasn’t at the event or was not a CHL player.

After that article and Robert Thomas tweet today those who I’ve not seen issue a statement or denied are below. With exception of Katchouk whose statement was more vague and just said he cooperated with investigation without denying involvement.

Boris Katchouk
Maxime Comtois
Tyler Steenbergen
Drake Batherson
Michael McLeod
Brett Howden
Sam Steel
Alex Formenton

There's more to that list of who haven't denied involvement. The group of 6 represented by Wasserman Hockey and one other player. Prematurely speculating who was involved won't help matters.

 

[DaveMatthew]

The disconnect between your level of confidence and knowledge is impressive.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. That Hockey Canada is required to publish the names of the players against whom the allegation was made? They're not. Nor is the public "owed" that information.

You might want to know, and you might think Hockey Canada should name the players, but they're not required to do so. And quite frankly, I'm not at all surprised that they haven't.

The fact is, unless this allegation progresses to a criminal charge, we may never know for sure who was there or who did what.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. That Hockey Canada is required to publish the names of the players against whom the allegation was made? They're not. Nor is the public "owed" that information.

You might want to know, and you might think Hockey Canada should name the players, but they're not required to do so. And quite frankly, I'm not at all surprised that they haven't.

The fact is, unless this allegation progresses to a criminal charge, we may never know for sure who was there or who did what.

Sometimes it feels like you're arguing against nobody though in this thread - because you're focusing on whether or not Hockey Canada is legally forced to give out the information and virtually nobody is saying they are.

They're saying Hockey Canada should - so that we can all come to our own conclusions. You can disagree with that, but nobody is arguing they are legally required to tell everyone the players involved lol.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

There's more to that list of who haven't denied involvement. The group of 6 represented by Wasserman Hockey and one other player. Prematurely speculating who was involved won't help matters.

No accusations. That’s just the list of players who have not issued any statement that I’ve seen. As pointed out by others some of the statements can be lawyer speak as well.

Anyway the way this is headed the names will be known in due course as there will likely be NHL suspensions for conduct detrimental to the league handed out. Unless NHL continues tone deaf approach demonstrated in Chicago.

 

[99ovr]

More information about it in this article:

Canadian world junior player asked woman whether she had gone to police after alleged sexual assault - The Globe and Mail

Text messages between player, woman shown to The Globe and Mail by lawyers for seven unnamed members of Canada’s 2018 world junior hockey team

www.theglobeandmail.com

Assen na yo!

This is the last thing I'll say about this situation as it seems I'm triggering way too many people but quite frankly this article is very revealing.

Based on that article, I can guarantee with absolute certainty that this wasn't some brutal gang rape that is being portrayed by reporters and the victim's statements, however it was definitely not close to being fully consensual, it likely lies somewhere in the middle where some things she was okay with and some not, either way what happened was not okay.

If it was a brutal gang rape, she would not have been as forgiving as she was over those texts, she would be like "you raped me you're going to jail" (if you want to see how a girl really reacts after a brutal gang rape look up Ebby Steppach). It was definitely not fully consensual or the players would feel no need to video tape her or text her the day after.

There are infinite scenarios which could've taken place and we will never know what truly happened. Perhaps she was fine with 6 of the guys but 1-2 were very aggressive making her feel bad about the whole situation. Perhaps she was fine with everything but then halfway through she felt bad about it and the guys kept going. No matter how you put it, the players are at fault and know they did something wrong and at very best, they knew what happened was at the very least extremely questionable.

"You said you were having fun,” the player wrote.

“I was really drunk, didn’t feel good about it at all after (she regretted her actions after the fact, not during). But I’m not trying to get anyone in trouble,” she replied.

“I was ok with going home with you, it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn’t expecting. I just felt like I was being made fun of and taken advantage of. (if she legitimately got raped, she wouldn't say "taken advantage of", she would say something much more brutal, there is a big difference between being taken advantage of and being brutally sexually assaulted)”

You don't text like this if you were raped, you text like this after regretting what you got into. No matter what the situation, the players are at fault however this is not something you go to jail for 10+ years for. If a college student did this he probably won't go to jail either, he'd probably just get kicked out of college hence why I feel if the names do get revealed (which I don't think will be the case as this is not a brutal rape) they will get kicked out of the league or at the very least get suspended for a full season.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Hockey Canada (potencially) doing a bad thing is not the same. First, it is being acknowledged as (potencially) wrong by the Canadian Government & Public and new oversight is being put in place. Its also not systematic or even proven yet.

An organisation within a country committing a wrong and being held to account within that country is REALLY FAR from deserving international sanctions...like as far as can be.

Hockey Canada has yearly funds dedicated specifically to pay off victims of sexual assaults from their member.

They budget it, they plan for it in advance, on a yearly basis, like an office would budget replacement ink cartridges for the printer. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. The stuff we know about so far.

Hockey Canada has a lot to account for and should absolutely not be hosting events right now.

 

[wetcoast]

Except we later learned this was a lie when a lawyer for the eight players accused said Hockey Canada knew from the outset who they were. Also, if no one knew who they were, how did all eight magically get the same lawyer?

Do you have a quote for this, I'm going off the article and public statement from the May 26th article about the April 20th settlement here.

The 8 guys probably know who they are and got the same lawyer together?

The person bringing the allegations forward chose not to speak with either police or with Hockey Canada’s independent investigator and also chose not to identify the players involved. This was her right, and we fully respect her wishes. We have settled this matter and as part of that settlement, we will not be commenting further.”

Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving World Junior players - TSN.ca

A woman who alleged she was sexually assaulted by eight Canadian Hockey League players, including members of Canada’s gold medal-winning 2017-18 World Junior team, has agreed to drop a lawsuit against the players, Hockey Canada, and the CHL after reaching a settlement.

www.tsn.ca

The statement is from HC spokeswoman Esther Madziya and she also stated,

that the organization informed London police about the allegations.

Like I said is there a quote saying otherwise and also one would think that the statement issued by HC in the article above would have been looked at by their lawyers?

 

[Korpse]

No accusations. That’s just the list of players who have not issued any statement that I’ve seen. As pointed out by others some of the statements can be lawyer speak as well.

Anyway the way this is headed the names will be known in due course as there will likely be NHL suspensions for conduct detrimental to the league handed out. Unless NHL continues tone deaf approach demonstrated in Chicago.

Fair enough, I just don’t like the idea of listing names at the moment. Though looking at Twitter it’s already probably too late.

 

[Quinton Byfield]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. That Hockey Canada is required to publish the names of the players against whom the allegation was made? They're not. Nor is the public "owed" that information.

You might want to know, and you might think Hockey Canada should name the players, but they're not required to do so. And quite frankly, I'm not at all surprised that they haven't.

The fact is, unless this allegation progresses to a criminal charge, we may never know for sure who was there or who did what.

There isn't a constitutional right to privacy as you suggest though. HC does not need to disclose of their knowledge of the incident, but at the same time, HC is under no liability to settle a lawsuit for their junior players either.

If HC chose to disclose of the information they have to the general public, that would also be their right. It's not libel to state the facts of their lawsuit, including the names of the accused.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I mean what are people expecting/hoping to happen at this point? There will be no criminality for any of the players, that I am confident of. Just too many conflicting and even exonerating? statements by the alleger. There's no way you can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

"It was all consensual. You are so paranoid, holy. I enjoyed it, it was fine. It was all consensual. I am so sober, that’s why I can’t do this right now.”
“I’m ok with this,” the woman says.

With there being no criminality, i doubt teams will release or blacklist the players, esp talented ones like Batherson (assuming he's involved).

So what's really the endgame? Cutting the funding of Hockey Canada? I know they released that letter where they say they are changing a bunch of protocols and what not.