Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[inthe6ix]

anyone have the updated list of players who have outright denied having any involvement or knowledge of what happened?

seems like the more that come out publicly, the smaller the list of those who haven't said a peep, so we can pretty much deduce who the guilty-until-proven-innocent are, according to the court of public opinion..

 

[francis246]

Hockey Canada has yearly funds dedicated specifically to pay off victims of sexual assaults from their member.

They budget it, they plan for it in advance, on a yearly basis, like an office would budget replacement ink cartridges for the printer. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. The stuff we know about so far.

Hockey Canada has a lot to account for and should absolutely not be hosting events right now.

Many large organizations do this.. not sure why it’s a big deal that they allocate money to deal with potential settlements. I’m pretty sure every sport organization does this. That in itself is not really an indication of anything bad.

That being said what has happened to this victim is unacceptable.

 

[DaveMatthew]

You jumped on a poorly worded sentence on my part. I know the details of the lawsuit. My argument is, vicarious liability does not apply here, because junior players are not under the employ of Hockey Canada (nor are they under the employ of their junior clubs). So Hockey Canada settled the lawsuit against them because they wanted to protect their own reputation? Their programs reputation?

Hockey Canada settled the lawsuit because a lawsuit was filed against them and they had to resolve it. The only way to resolve it was to either settle or fight.

Usually, organizations settle because: they don't believe they can win and a settlement is lower than the damages would be if they lost, or the cost of a prolonged legal fight would be higher than a settlement.

Settling this suit is in no way a cover-up of any kind.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Just asking because earlier you called it “over outrage” and giving that laugh reaction to a lot of people taking the victim instead of the players

You mean the ones where someone said the 8 players accused should "just come out and admit it." and "have to donate 50% of the NHL salaries to the victim and SA funds for the rest of their careers"

Yeah, pretty outrageous and worthy of a laugh.

 

[Static]

 

[caymanmew]

anyone have the updated list of players who have outright denied having any involvement or knowledge of what happened?

seems like the more that come out publicly, the smaller the list of those who haven't said a peep, so we can pretty much deduce who the guilty-until-proven innocent are, according to the court of public opinion..

The list is on every page of this thread, including a quote on the first post of this page.

That being said, simply saying "it wasn't me, I wasn't involved" on Twitter is not really proof of anything. A number of the player statements seem to basically say "I did nothing wrong" which could mean they were not there but could also mean they claim it was conceptual and they were there.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I wonder if Chris Bittle understands that the Liberal Party of Canada would also have a fund available to settle potential claims, including those of sexual assault, that wouldn't be otherwise covered by insurance? And that fund would be stocked by donations from the public, which is their primary source of revenue?

Journalists need to focus on the right thing here. Hockey Canada is not proactively going out to alleged victims and paying them to keep quiet. They're settling lawsuits that have been brought against them and are on the public record. These are two very different things.

There should be no outrage about settling a lawsuit that was brought against them.

There should be outrage about their inaction, in terms of trying to prevent future situations or disciplining the players involved, after the lawsuit was settled.

 

[inthe6ix]

do i think some of these players might have crossed the line, yes it's pretty likely. but i also I doubt they are some evil or violent sexual abusers in nature and i don't believe they should lose their professional hockey careers because of this incident.

one time is too many

if any of them are involved in any way with the assault, sorry but there are consequences, and if that means losing your career over one line crossed, too bad

you reap what you sow

 

[PostBradMalone]

i never said that. i asked what people want to realistically happen at this point. again, proving this case criminally beyond a reasonable doubt doesn't seem possible to me based on the info we have.

That isn't a given at all, really. And there's more info we don't have access to- for one, I believe I read at one point that E.M. consented to a physical exam, AKA a rape kit. A detective also gathered statements from several if not all of the John Does. We may never see that information, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

do i think some of these players might have crossed the line, yes it's pretty likely. but i also I doubt they are some evil or violent sexual abusers in nature and i don't believe they should lose their professional hockey careers because of this incident.

If in your mind criminality can't be proven either way, how can you then also vouch for their characters?

 

[A1LeafNation]

So Hockey Canada has been skimming money off kids to pay off rapists lawsuits...wtf.

 

[Korpse]

Many large organizations do this.. not sure why it’s a big deal that they allocate money to deal with potential settlements. I’m pretty sure every sport organization does this. That in itself is not really an indication of anything bad.

That being said what has happened to this victim is unacceptable.

I think the point is more so that that type of fund is needed because it is not a one time incident. Hockey Canada currently has two other open investigations into abuse. And incidents like these happen annually, it shouldn't be a surprise for most but when the argument is that it isn't systemic, I think it's worth pointing out.

 

[inthe6ix]

The list is on every page of this thread, including a quote on the first post of this page.

That being said, simply saying "it wasn't me, I wasn't involved" on Twitter is not really proof of anything. A number of the player statements seem to basically say "I did nothing wrong" which could mean they were not there but could also mean they claim it was conceptual and they were there.

but it's not just passive twitter comments, some of these players are publicly going to the media declaring they were not physically at the event during the time of the assault and had no knowledge of what happened, so it's on record they are clean and washing their hands of it

 

[PostBradMalone]

Journalists need to focus on the right thing here. Hockey Canada is not proactively going out to alleged victims and paying them to keep quiet. They're settling lawsuits that have been brought against them and are on the public record. These are two very different things.

You keep focusing on this weird line of argument about complainants coming to HC versus them going out and... I don't know... taking out FB ads asking if a TC player anyone ever raped them... or something.

In reality, a civil suit can't be settled unless someone actually brings a suit. Who did it doesn't matter.

 

[Dr Pepper]

So Hockey Canada has been skimming money off kids to pay off rapists lawsuits...wtf.

Yup.

Tune in next month, to watch the 2022 World Juniors, right here on TSN!

 

[Golden_Jet]

but it's not just passive twitter comments, some of these players are publicly going to the media declaring they were not physically at the event during the time of the assault and had no knowledge of what happened, so it's on record they are clean and washing their hands of it

One player did that, that I’m aware of, Mete, he was in Mexico.

 

[Quinton Byfield]

I mean what are people expecting/hoping to happen at this point? There will be no criminality for any of the players, that I am confident of. Just too many conflicting and even exonerating? statements by the alleger. There's no way you can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

"It was all consensual. You are so paranoid, holy. I enjoyed it, it was fine. It was all consensual. I am so sober, that’s why I can’t do this right now.”
“I’m ok with this,” the woman says.

With there being no criminality, i doubt teams will release or blacklist the players, esp talented ones like Batherson (assuming he's involved).

So what's really the endgame? Cutting the funding of Hockey Canada? I know they released that letter where they say they are changing a bunch of protocols and what not.

Did you miss this part? A hockey player texting the woman the NEXT day? You don't see anything odd about the statement "I am so sober, that's why I can't do this right now." There is contextual elements missing.

“You said you were having fun,” the player wrote.

“I was really drunk, didn’t feel good about it at all after. But I’m not trying to get anyone in trouble,” she replied.

“I was ok with going home with you, it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn’t expecting. I just felt like I was being made fun of and taken advantage of.”

The criminal code also states that no consent can be given where the complainant submits through force or the threat of force. If it is proven that she submitted by reason of fear of the threat of the men in the room, then there is no valid consent in law.

This is exactly how the lawyers are going to play this. Discredit the victim, make it seem as though it is consensual. Why didn't she put a stop to it if she didn't want the sex to happen? Why did she say she was okay with it if she wasn't? Frame it as if she wanted money, which is why she filed a lawsuit against Hockey Canada rather than pursue a sexual assault case against the players?

Typical DARVO stuff.

 

[Korpse]

Yup.

Tune in next month, to watch the 2022 World Juniors, right here on TSN!

To be fair to TSN, they do employ Rick Westhead and I'm fairly certain he mentioned how supportive they are of the work that he does.

 

[francis246]

Yup.

Tune in next month, to watch the 2022 World Juniors, right here on TSN!

I mean TSN also employed Rick Westhead and have supported all his investigative stories. Even if it conflicts with one of their major events.

 

[Dr Pepper]

To be fair to TSN, they do employ Rick Westhead and I'm fairly certain he mentioned how supportive they are of the work that he does.

This is true.

Still, going to be some pretty awkward panels during the intermissions and between games, one would think.

Also curious what ads they plan on running, given the exodus of big sponsors.

 

[I am toxic]

This was a "clarification" (i.e. ass-covering) added after the fact, and a weak one at that- "he does not know" if they are/were "aware" is not the same as definitively stating they did or did not know. Note again these lawyers were confident enough to state in a written letter to Hockey Canada that it was the case- it wasn't like this was a quote to a reporter that was taken out of context or even a tweet. If it was a mistake, it's a serious one by their counsel.

Hockey Canada absolutely knew which nine players refused to take part of their investigation before the police investigation, and they no doubt knew at the time which players had lawyered up.

And to suggest that a multi-million dollar lawsuit was settled and paid out without knowing the identities of the parties involved is so ludicrous as to be a complete joke.

Of course, i'ts Hockey Canada, so nothing is too ludicrous. They are a complete joke.

 

[DaveMatthew]

You keep focusing on this weird line of argument about complainants coming to HC versus them going out and... I don't know... taking out FB ads asking if a TC player anyone ever raped them... or something.

In reality, a civil suit can't be settled unless someone actually brings a suit. Who did it doesn't matter.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that settling a lawsuit is in no way "hush money". It's the opposite. It's out in the open and the complaint is in the public record.

The focus shouldn't be on the fact that Hockey Canada settled the lawsuit. Financial compensation is what the alleged victim wanted, and it's what she received. That's actually a positive. The focus should be that they didn't do anything beyond settling the lawsuit. That's the terrible part.

Do you think it would have been better if Hockey Canada used their financial power to take the complainant to court to try and discredit her version of events?

Because beyond settling, that was the only other option.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Stumbling into this thread for the first time seeing people DEFENDING Hockey Canada and the players is a yikes

I’ll stick to my own teams board from now on.

Good.

 

[PostBradMalone]

Did you miss this part? A hockey player texting the woman the NEXT day?

I will say again that this is enormously stupid, and never do it if you are accused of a crime. I also cannot fathom how or why actual adult human lawyers would believe spreading those texts around to the media is in any way helpful to their client(s). Great job, idiots, you've just established at least a couple of the elements of 423.1.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

There should be no outrage about settling a lawsuit that was brought against them.

There should be outrage about their inaction, in terms of trying to prevent future situations or disciplining the players involved, after the lawsuit was settled.

You still don't get it. The former is linked to the latter.

It is because we are outraged about their inaction to prevent future situations and discipline the players that we are also outraged about the way it was settled in the first place. Both instances inform us on the thought process at Hockey Canada at the time and their disregard for sexual assaults and the welfare and safety of women.

You insist that settlements are just business as usual but continually ignore the way it was settled. First they hire the most ruthless lawyers to "inquire" and then they give this girl hush money in exchange for leaving the names of the players out. Then they bury the story and when it resurfaces, they phrase everything in a damning way for the victim. When forced to answer in commission, they lie about facts.

It's fascinating to see you defend the process of this settlement when Hockey Canada themselves are now backpedaling. As you've done yourself a few times. Aren't you tired of it?

Like, who or what are you even trying to defend here?

 

[Korpse]

I was reading on twitter that it may not just be 8 players off of the 2018 canadian team. I was trying to sleuth out who the 8 might be based on who came out with a denial. But I was told that some may be European CHL players that were on other WJC teams.
Does anyone know if this is true?

It would be unlikely that European CHLers were in London, Ontario in June.