Canada only dominates with centers these days ?

[Atoyot]

Centers can easily play as wingers but not vice versa. Forward group is not really a problem for Canada. Their defense isn't as good as it once was yet it's still pretty f***ing good. Goaltending could be an issue. Then again Canada can hold on to the puck very well so the opposing team won't get much scoring chances.

This was my immediate thought. If you have a team of 12 centers you're generally fine, if you have a team of 12 wingers you're generally in trouble.

 

[Nucks2001]

It was 33-24, 32-26, and 33-28 in 2018, 2019 and 2020, but I think COVID made the numbers look a bit more "traditional" as teams reverted to the perceived safer CHL drafting patterns. Now we will see going forward.

One interesting note (not sure to what, if any relevance it has on this particular topic) is how many more Canadian kids are going the USHL -> NCAA route. I think with Tenders, a lot more Ontario kids in particular are controlling their own fate by signing with a particular USHL team and then a particular NCAA team, rather than leaving their destiny in the hands of an OHL draft, where they could go to London, but could get stuck on Niagara... You've always seen a lot of Western kids go to the BCHL or AJHL -> NCAA.

Very true. I think throwing kids into the CHL at 15/16 is not what’s best for their development, not anymore at least. Them playing in Junior A which are still strong leagues, particularly in the Western Provinces and going to college does wonders for their maturity. Think the USHL route is the best for goalies now. They actually develop and play their goalies the right way while in the CHL, a goalie may never play an “actual” season until his third season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think this is overblown.

USA has gotten better. It’s a bigger country than Canada and now the interest in hockey is growing. That’s going to lead to results and a bigger competitor.

Russia is also a bigger country and has a very storied history in hockey. It’s not some big upset that they have better wingers and goalies.

Sweden has had great defensemen for a while now. Not some big upset.

Hockey might be declining in Canada, but it’s also true that whether it did or not you aren’t going to see them dominate hockey to the extent they did in the past. Hockey is becoming more global. Same thing happening for America with basketball.

 

[maroon 6]

Would disagree, top 2 defenseman of the last two cup teams and already one of the best defenseman of all time leading the line, in addition to recent top 5 Norris finishers Morrisey and Hamilton, I take them over anyone, perhaps Sweden is the closest but i don’t think they have any atrocious defensively they have to hide like Klingberg or Q.Hughes/Jones


But goaltenders you’re 100% right it’s a failure across the board from the CHL, Hockey Canada etc that goaltending has become far behind Russia and the other top countries





A bit of both, not unlike the years around the turn of the century when Canada lost two best on best tournaments consecutively for the first time ever, although now it hasn’t been visible due to the lack of tournament. Several strong drafts though since 2020 (including a generational talent) and more to come and I think the lull is starting to end in terms of talent production

You clearly haven’t watched Hughes play if you think he’s atrocious defensively.

 

[Mrb1p]

Does Makar not exist?

Makar, Pietrangelo, Morrissey, Montour, Hamilton, Torws, Dobson, ekblad, etc..

Canada has C and D. Russia has wings and goaltending. Far and away from canada in the other two though.

 

[Mathieukferland]

You clearly haven’t watched Hughes play if you think he’s atrocious defensively.

I watch him 5/6 times a year. I think he dearly misses the stabilizing presence of a Christopher Tanev type partner

 

[Miro4Norris]

Does Makar not exist?

Makar, Pietrangelo, Morrissey, Montour, Hamilton, Torws, Dobson, ekblad, etc..

Canada has C and D. Russia has wings and goaltending. Far and away from canada in the other two though.

Nah Canada has 1 truly elite D US 4 Sweden 3. USA/SWE win pretty easily with Defense. Fox, Slavin, McAvoy, Hughes, Werenski, Carlson, Jones, Sanderson. Sweden Hedman, Karlsson, Dahlin, Ekholm, Lindholm, Andersson

Can - Centers
USA/RUS - Wingers
USA - Defense/Swe
RUS - Goalies
FIN - system

Other countries with Drai, Pasta, Josi, Hischier, Stutzle, Kopi, Fiala, Ehlers, Zucc, Necas, Meier, Seider etc. Come back intl hockey it has never been better situation competitively

 

[maroon 6]

I watch him 5/6 times a year. I think he dearly misses the stabilizing presence of a Christopher Tanev type partner

Who wouldn't? Having Tanev on his right side allowed Hughes to play freely in his rookie season. He struggled the next year as Myers and Hamonic were no where as good Tanev yet Hughes was still trying to play like he had Tanev on his right side. He's been good defensively since his sophomore season.

in addition to recent top 5 Norris finishers Morrisey and Hamilton, I take them over anyone, perhaps Sweden is the closest but i don’t think they have any atrocious defensively they have to hide like Klingberg or Q.Hughes/Jones

Short handed TOI last season

Morrisey - 25.5 mins
Hamilton - 14.2 mins
Hughes - 103.1 mins

 

[Mathieukferland]

FIN - system

Playing 5 across the blue line and parking the bus is merry well when you’re playing against AHLers in the spring world championships but when McDavid and Kaprizov are bearing down on Olli Maatta I don’t think it’s going to end well

Who wouldn't? Having Tanev on his right side allowed Hughes to play freely in his rookie season. He struggled the next year as Myers and Hamonic were no where as good Tanev yet Hughes was still trying to play like he had Tanev on his right side. He's been good defensively since his sophomore season.



Short handed TOI last season

Morrisey - 25.5 mins
Hamilton - 14.2 mins
Hughes - 103.1 mins

Fair enough with the short handed TOI although I think that says more about Vancouver’s roster construction than it does his defensive ability, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread I think he’s a better transition defender than he used to be but I find that his GPS in his own end is broken

 

[moropanov]

Playing 5 across the blue line and parking the bus is merry well when you’re playing against AHLers in the spring world championships but when McDavid and Kaprizov are bearing down on Olli Maatta I don’t think it’s going to end well


Fair enough with the short handed TOI although I think that says more about Vancouver’s roster construction than it does his defensive ability, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread I think he’s a better transition defender than he used to be but I find that his GPS in his own end is broken

Finland usually has edge againts Russia even if they have theyr best participating realistic estimation Finland propably wins againts Russia 65% if they meet 100 time's

 

[Lunatik]

I still think Canada is #1 due it's center depth, excellent blueline, and intangibles. I don't think they are a tier above the competition though. For instance, even though the U.S. doesn't have the depth at center Canada does we can still put out Matthews, Eichel, Hughes, and Thompson (among others). We also have very good wingers.

Your goaltending now and in the future is very bright too.

 

[Nucks2001]

I still think Canada is #1 due it's center depth, excellent blueline, and intangibles. I don't think they are a tier above the competition though. For instance, even though the U.S. doesn't have the depth at center Canada does we can still put out Matthews, Eichel, Hughes, and Thompson (among others). We also have very good wingers.

As a Canadian, your winger depth smokes Canada’s out of the water. Robertson, the Tkachuks, Keller, Debrincat, Gaudreau, Boldy, Guentzel, Tuch > 36 year old Marchand, Huberdeau, Marner, Stone, Verhaege, Kyrou. Unreal.

Plus you can have guys like Tage Thompson, Zegras or Caufield shift over to the wing.

Canada’s centre depth is untouchable though. McDavid-MacKinnon-Crosby-Point. Larkin would most likely be the 4th line centre, assuming the US plays Thompson on the wing. There’s just such a huge gap between him and Point.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Y’all been preparing for Canada’s downfall for years.

Spoiler alert, a team with Bedard and McDavid isn’t losing.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Canada is fine

Makar best def in the league

McDavid best player in the world

Bedard best rookie in the world

Celebrini should go #1 next draft

Only position i agree is in net Canada hasnt had an elite goalie since Price

 

[WarriorofTime]

Finland usually has edge againts Russia even if they have theyr best participating realistic estimation Finland propably wins againts Russia 65% if they meet 100 time's

Maybe back when Russia has a Switzerland level Swiss cheese defense but they have a full lineup of good nhl dmen now… I think russias best on best lines up better than finlands right now. Who knows how many times each wins if they play 100 times but I doubt the Finns would have a nearly 2 to 1 edge.

 

[ViD]

Y’all been preparing for Canada’s downfall for years.

Spoiler alert, a team with Bedard and McDavid isn’t losing.

Bedard ? You’re not scaring anyone with a 18 year old undersized guy with no defense. Let’s use his name in a couple of years when he matures.

 

[Saskatoon]

Very true. I think throwing kids into the CHL at 15/16 is not what’s best for their development, not anymore at least. Them playing in Junior A which are still strong leagues, particularly in the Western Provinces and going to college does wonders for their maturity. Think the USHL route is the best for goalies now. They actually develop and play their goalies the right way while in the CHL, a goalie may never play an “actual” season until his third season.

I don't know the intricoes of the NCAA rules enough to know if this would work but could the CHL allow players to decline their living stipend so they could still be NCAA eligible after? Honestly it would benefit non-NHLers more than hopeful NHlers as they could still get scholarships to play NCAA after CHL

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I feel like Makar being capable of being on the ice for 50% of any game kind of negates the whole "Canada is weak on D".

Canada's real problem is goaltending. There just really isn't an elite guy, and I don't know of any on their way up.

Nah Canada has 1 truly elite D US 4 Sweden 3. USA/SWE win pretty easily with Defense. Fox, Slavin, McAvoy, Hughes, Werenski, Carlson, Jones, Sanderson. Sweden Hedman, Karlsson, Dahlin, Ekholm, Lindholm, Andersson

If you are going to clap on Canada's D, don't follow it up by naming Andersson, Calrson, Jones and Sanderson lol.

Both those countries have incredible top 4s, though.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Playing 5 across the blue line and parking the bus is merry well when you’re playing against AHLers in the spring world championships but when McDavid and Kaprizov are bearing down on Olli Maatta I don’t think it’s going to end well

Maatta has shutdown guys like Ovi, Geno several times already. Worked against Kaprizov as well in 2019. It's not like Finland's firepower doesn't improve for best on best. Finland is just traditionally overachieving looking the roster

 

[Miro4Norris]

I feel like Makar being capable of being on the ice for 50% of any game kind of negates the whole "Canada is weak on D".

Canada's real problem is goaltending. There just really isn't an elite guy, and I don't know of any on their way up.



If you are going to clap on Canada's D, don't follow it up by naming Andersson, Calrson, Jones and Sanderson lol.

Both those countries have incredible top 4s, though.

Doesn't really matter who's on there if top4 is dynamite. and this projection has guys like Ekblad for Canada's third pair as well

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Hockey is dying in Canada.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Doesn't really matter who's on there if top4 is dynamite. and this projection has guys like Ekblad for Canada's third pair as well

Ya, I agree with that. I just had to chuckle at those names, the quality drop off was severe.

I am not even sure what Canada's D would be today...

Makar - Toews
Hamilton - Pie
Pelech - Doughty
Morrissey

It's decent, but definitely doesn't have the top 4 depth of USA/SWE. Not sure how to feel about SWE actually...I think I'd rather have Ekholm in the top 4 over Karlsson in an international competition, even as a big Karlsson stan.

 

[kranuck]

Would disagree, top 2 defenseman of the last two cup teams and already one of the best defenseman of all time leading the line, in addition to recent top 5 Norris finishers Morrisey and Hamilton, I take them over anyone, perhaps Sweden is the closest but i don’t think they have any atrocious defensively they have to hide like Klingberg or Q.Hughes/Jones


But goaltenders you’re 100% right it’s a failure across the board from the CHL, Hockey Canada etc that goaltending has become far behind Russia and the other top countries





A bit of both, not unlike the years around the turn of the century when Canada lost two best on best tournaments consecutively for the first time ever, although now it hasn’t been visible due to the lack of tournament. Several strong drafts though since 2020 (including a generational talent) and more to come and I think the lull is starting to end in terms of talent production

I think I’m gonna switch to rooting to USA just so I can enjoy watching Canadians cry as Hughes shows them how much better he is than every Canadian dman outside Makar.

 

[kranuck]

I watch him 5/6 times a year. I think he dearly misses the stabilizing presence of a Christopher Tanev type partner

I straight up don’t believe you.

I don't know the intricoes of the NCAA rules enough to know if this would work but could the CHL allow players to decline their living stipend so they could still be NCAA eligible after? Honestly it would benefit non-NHLers more than hopeful NHlers as they could still get scholarships to play NCAA after CHL

The solution isn’t to make the CHL worse.

The NCAA rules are dumb as f*** and should change.

 

[kranuck]

Playing 5 across the blue line and parking the bus is merry well when you’re playing against AHLers in the spring world championships but when McDavid and Kaprizov are bearing down on Olli Maatta I don’t think it’s going to end well


Fair enough with the short handed TOI although I think that says more about Vancouver’s roster construction than it does his defensive ability, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread I think he’s a better transition defender than he used to be but I find that his GPS in his own end is broken

No it’s absolutely because he’s the best dman on the team at everything except being big, and that’s tremendously overrated.