Canada only dominates with centers these days ?

[ColinM]

LMAO. He's definitely on one though when Canada can roll a PP of Crosby-McDavid-MacKinnon-Point-Makar and still leave guys like Morrisey, Theodore, Ekblad Hamilton, Marner, Marchand, Stamkos, Barzal and Huberdeau off.

Bedard, Fantilli, Celebrini, Cozens, Thomas, Power and Byram will fill in the vet's shoes 2-3 years from now. Man oh man, will that be a fun team to watch. 30 year-old MacKinnon, 29 year-old McDavid, 27 year-old Makar, and a 22 year-old Bedard.

Goaltending is shite though.

True Patrick Roy inspired a generation of French Canadian Goaltenders and there has never been a second wave.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Bedard ? You’re not scaring anyone with a 18 year old undersized guy with no defense. Let’s use his name in a couple of years when he matures.

Bedard will be in his 20s the next best on best (if the NHL ends up going)

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

True Patrick Roy inspired a generation of French Canadian Goaltenders and there has never been a second wave.

Hockey in general is dying in Quebec , not just goalies , cost to play is not worth the investment unless you are loaded. Of course it's even harder for goalies because of that cost

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Hockey in general is dying in Quebec , not just goalies , cost to play is not worth the investment unless you are loaded. Of course it's even harder for goalies because of that cost

Is there data showing decreasing enrollment?

My nephew just played at some tournament down in the States with high level players and Quebec was very well represented.

 

[Nucks2001]

Is there data showing decreasing enrollment?

My nephew just played at some tournament down in the States with high level players and Quebec was very well represented.

if you look at Hockey Canada’s statistics, you’ll see there’s been a decrease in registered players since 2016. Not sure about exact numbers for Quebec, but if it’s down across the country then it would be down in Quebec I would imagine. America overtook Canada in number of registered hockey players in the world starting in 2022 (last year)

Here’s a link to a statistics website, you can probably find an Offical Hockey Canada one though:

Registered ice hockey players in Canada 2023 | Statista

In the 2022/23 season, there were a total of roughly 549 thousand registered ice hockey players in Canada according to the International Ice Hockey Federation.

www.statista.com

 

[FDBluth]

I don't see why this matters when there's literally no tournaments to watch all these guys play anyway

 

[jigglysquishy]

if you look at Hockey Canada’s statistics, you’ll see there’s been a decrease in registered players since 2016. Not sure about exact numbers for Quebec, but if it’s down across the country then it would be down in Quebec I would imagine. America overtook Canada in number of registered hockey players in the world starting in 2022 (last year)

Here’s a link to a statistics website, you can probably find an Offical Hockey Canada one though:

Registered ice hockey players in Canada 2023 | Statista

In the 2022/23 season, there were a total of roughly 549 thousand registered ice hockey players in Canada according to the International Ice Hockey Federation.

www.statista.com

This also includes adults, so the 45 year old adult is included.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Is there data showing decreasing enrollment?

My nephew just played at some tournament down in the States with high level players and Quebec was very well represented.

https://www.tvasports.ca/2022/09/21/hockey-quebec-une-annee-prometteuse-pour-les-inscriptions

Translate this article it will give you many of the answers you are looking for

 

[hamzarocks]

Nah Canada has 1 truly elite D US 4 Sweden 3. USA/SWE win pretty easily with Defense. Fox, Slavin, McAvoy, Hughes, Werenski, Carlson, Jones, Sanderson. Sweden Hedman, Karlsson, Dahlin, Ekholm, Lindholm, Andersson

Can - Centers
USA/RUS - Wingers
USA - Defense/Swe
RUS - Goalies
FIN - system

Other countries with Drai, Pasta, Josi, Hischier, Stutzle, Kopi, Fiala, Ehlers, Zucc, Necas, Meier, Seider etc. Come back intl hockey it has never been better situation competitively

US have 2

Fox is elite for sure and then McAvoy

Slavin is same tier as Pietrangelo

Werenski is worse than Hamilton offensively and that is what they both mainly provide

Hughes is elite offensively and better than Canada's 5thD

The top 4 is pretty similar overall

 

[beowulf]

Only spot Canada has an issue of sorts is a top flight goalie right now. Forwards and defence are fine and would still be tops in a best on best tourney. Hockey is still a team sport and an overall team they are still the one to beat.

 

[ColinM]

Hockey in general is dying in Quebec , not just goalies , cost to play is not worth the investment unless you are loaded. Of course it's even harder for goalies because of that cost

Hockey has always been an expensive sport compared to Soccer and Basketball (and likely always will be). I think its a stretch to say its dying given the abundance of youth that are still playing.

 

[tapi]

Even if Canada is on a bit of a downward trend, we still win the Best-on-Best competitions 90% of the time so it's all good

 

[Nucks2001]

Only spot Canada has an issue of sorts is a top flight goalie right now. Forwards and defence are fine and would still be tops in a best on best tourney. Hockey is still a team sport and an overall team they are still the one to beat.

The USA is just as strong as Canada right now. I would say Canada and the USA would go in as co-favourites if a tournament were to occur today. They have them beat in goalies and the USA’s top 4 is better than Canada’s: Makar, Toews, Morrisey, Pietrangelo < Fox, Slavin, Hughes, McAvoy. Canada has more defensive depth though so if an injury occurs to any of the top American defencemen, I think Canada would edge them slightly on the backend.

Up front, you obviously have your generational talents in McDavid, MacKinnon and Crosby. You also have strong ancillary players in Point and Marner, but after that it’s kind of bleak. Stamkos and Marchand are older and then Canada has to start relying on guys like Barzal, Cozens, Kyrou, Huberdeau, RNH, Stone, Thomas, Cozens Giroux, Tavares, Konecny, PLD, Schiefele. Like these guys are GOOD options, but when you look at America’s forward group, I feel they have better supplementary players.

Outside of your Generational American talents in Matthews and Hughes, you have the Tkachuks, Jrob, Tage Thompson, Eichel, Kyle Connor, Gaudreau, Keller, Larkin. Most of these guys are younger and more established than Canada’s supplementary players. The USA’s forward core is so deep that it’s gotten to the point where they can legitimately roll a B-Team of Zegras, Caufield, Guentzel, JT Miller, Debrincat, Boldy, Berniers, Tuch, Pavelski, Kane, and Terry.

I would say the forwards are EVEN and IM ONLY saying that because of the McDavid and MacKinnon factor. If even one of them gets injured, the advantage swings to the Red and Blue.

 

[surixon]

Who wouldn't? Having Tanev on his right side allowed Hughes to play freely in his rookie season. He struggled the next year as Myers and Hamonic were no where as good Tanev yet Hughes was still trying to play like he had Tanev on his right side. He's been good defensively since his sophomore season.



Short handed TOI last season

Morrisey - 25.5 mins
Hamilton - 14.2 mins
Hughes - 103.1 mins

Morrissey spent the first half of his career killing penalties and is good at it. He's perfectly capable of filling that role. Our coaching would rather deploy him heavily 5 on 5 and on the PP as that is where he makes the biggest impact these days.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

As a Canadian it's a good thing that other nations are catching up , makes international tournaments much more interesting , or else it's like watching Olympic basketball and rooting for USA , like how much can you really celebrate when you win hockey has always been the only team sport we are good at haha the next international USA team is gonna be stacked looking forward to it

 

[Strangle]

The popularity of the sport has plummeted in Canada, particularly Quebec.

Take a look at your average suburban Canadian elementary school classroom. NBA and NFL have overtaken the NHL in popularity amongst youngsters.

The development of goalies has collapsed and in the worst position its been since before World War I.

Other countries have caught up. But by far the biggest reason is hockey losing its privileged position in Canada.

The reason this is happening is mostly cost and commitment. I have a daughter playing rep soccer, and even that is a lot of time commitment.

Due to cost I won’t let my daughters get into hockey or horse riding lol

It probably doesn’t help that no Canadian team has won a cup in 30 years, either.

I suspect the sports betting push will help getting people back into hockey, but even if you’re not playing or your kids aren’t playing and you just want to watch you have to jump through hoops and pay a ton of extra cost.

If you don’t have cable, and many don’t these days, you needs to pay something around $50+ a month for sportsnet and TSN apps.

I’m not sure how many people out there only watch Saturday night games on CBC, but I did that for almost 3 years, supplementing with the odd illegal stream (which is always a total shit show and never actually worth doing).

NHL needs to make hockey much easier to consume as a fan, and something really needs to be done about the cost to play.

People these days are too busy not affording their rent/mortgage/monthly groceries to be messing around with a lot of this unless they REALLY love it

 

[sdf]

Kaprizov is overrated garbage, panarin is overrated garbage, Ovechkin... you got it. The rest is meh. There are no golden Russian wingers squad

 

[Nucks2001]

Kaprizov is overrated garbage, panarin is overrated garbage, Ovechkin... you got it. The rest is meh. There are no golden Russian wingers squad

Panarin is overrated, but Kaprizov I feel is underrated by many. I saw a graphic from Sportnet a couple weeks ago that showed Kaprizov creating more goals and shots for himself AND his linemates when compared to guys like McDavid, MacKinnon and Kucherov. That’s saying a lot especially when these guys have Draistil, Rantanen, Makar, Point and Stamkos as linemates or on their teams while Kaprizov’s centre is Ryan Hartman…..

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

If you think about it, Canada does not have the depth that excels at every position like they used to. Center clearly is the position where they are by far the best.

Other than that

I will take Russia wingers over Canada

I will take USA and possibly Sweden defense over Canada

Not much there is to say about Canada goaltending, it’s top 5 at best.

What do you think ? The world has caught up or Canada slightly declined ?

A Canada team would no longer really be a Dream Team like before. The goalkeepers are not the stuff of dreams. It's also true that left-handed wingers and defenders are a step below.

USA is now almost at the same level.

Russia has the best goalkeepers and very exciting attacking wingers.

 

[Nucks2001]

A Canada team would no longer really be a Dream Team like before. The goalkeepers are not the stuff of dreams. It's also true that left-handed wingers and defenders are a step below.

USA is now almost at the same level.

Russia has the best goalkeepers and very exciting attacking wingers.

Don’t know how a team of McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Bedard, Makar, Marner, Stamkos and Point ISN’T a dream team but you, do you lol.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Don’t know how a team of McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Bedard, Makar, Marner, Stamkos and Point ISN’T a dream team but you, do you lol.

A Dream Team is a team where the 25 players make you dream.

 

[Mohar Ikram]

This is overblown. With the goalie exception, if Canada decides to suddenly be a robot and create a team based on their natural or most common position, Canada still stomps most of their competitors.

Marchand - McDavid - Marner
Stamkos - Mackinnon - Giroux
Hyman - Crosby - Reinhart
Benn - Point - Kyrou

Extras : Nuge, Skinner

Toews - Makar
Rielly - Pietrangelo
Morrisey - Hamilton

Extras - Theodore, Dunn

Apart from RW (and obviously lack of good goalies) , I see no talent loss on other side

 

[Nucks2001]

A Dream Team is a team where the 25 players make you dream.

Right now I’m dreaming about a generational line of Bedard’s wrist shot being set-up by Crosby all while having the fastest winger ever in McDavid on the left side. I could also be dreaming of the fastest line ever created in Hockey with Barzal flying up the wing and setting-up Mackinnon’s One-T. McDavid can just skate around and do loops around the rink, no need for him. Him and Makar can play tag in the D-Zone. Oh and how can I forget about the third line? The 2x Stanley cup champs, Brayden Point setting up Steven Stamkos. Oh wait where’s Mitch Marner? He can maybe make up some shinny plays with Makar and McDavid in the D-Zone. No need for them. Devon Toews can be in the O-Zone during this onslaught. He’ll be a line of safety if the puck ever clears the zone before running into Selke finalist Mark Stone. No need for Makar.

And the best part of my dream! I’ll play in net and get a gold medal!

 

[WarriorofTime]

Two things can be true - Canada would still ice an entire team of elite players and it wouldn't be quite at the same level of superiority compared to competition as prior years.

 

[Dominance]

All-American NHL BoG couldn’t be happier.

Top-quality Canadian prospects slow-cooked as middle 6ers (e.g., Guenther, Zellweger, Clarke and Wright in the AHL) while American prospects have limitless opportunities served on silver platters (e.g., Cooley instant PP1, L. Hughes playing over high-Norris finishing Hamilton on PP1, Brink inexplicably playing L1 over Konecny and Foerster). Canadians possibly ready to take the next step in the NHL locked in purgatory (e.g., Tortorella scratching Johnson and locking him into third line usage, McTavish immediately given second line scraps and knocked off PP1 by Carlsson). Lafreniere handed a pathway to inevitable bustdom by the Rags and Bedard stepping into the worst conceivable situation in O6 Chicago.

This thread is only a conversation because outside of Makar, zero Canadians drafted since 2015 have done anything remarkable even though we basically represent 50% of first round picks in that time. Some of those are due to unbelievably bad injury luck (e.g., Patrick, Glass, Vilardi, Dach, Perfetti), some of those are due to being trapped behind other young talent (e.g., Byram behind Makar, Cozens behind Thompson, Power behind Dahlin).

At this point the decline is real, whether it’s a matter of bad luck or something more. It should not be possible for a country representing 40% of drafted players to have almost zero prospects really emerge as stars over 8 years. We probably win only 55% of the time to the Americans in a best-of-7 today and that number will only go down over the next handful of years as this colossal failure of our young guns exerts itself. Long-term there’s probably no reason to doubt that we’ll eventually re-establish ourselves as we look to continue dominating draft day (2024 could be another year of 16+ Canadian first rounders), but the decline is only intensifying currently and it’s pretty sad to look at the state of the league.