WJC: Canada 2018 Roster Talk

[Statsy]

I'm assuming we're talking 2016 Hicketts? I remember him being okay in his limited role in 2015

I remember it the other way around. I thought he struggled mightily in his first year, but was quite good the second time around.

 

[JackSlater]

I remember it the other way around. I thought he struggled mightily in his first year, but was quite good the second time around.

I'm pretty confident that you are mixing up the years. Hicketts was fine on the third pairing in 2015. In 2016 Lowry, his coach in the WHL, decided that Hicketts was actually the number one defenceman on the team and overused him, exposing Hicketts. It all culminated in him taking a penalty for shooting the puck over the glass, at the other end of the ice, while shorthanded as Canada tried to comeback against Finland. Hicketts was a trainwreck in 2016, in large part due to Lowry. This is bringing back bad memories. Lowry also, somehow, decided that Sanheim was Canada's seventh defenceman. It was mystifying.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

The issue is that somewhere seems to be named Aleksi Heponiemi. I haven't watched Swift Current so I don't really know, but I think that's likely

I think Sam Cosentino and Jeff Marek talked about that Swift Current line in their CHL podcast and said the same thing. Can't remember what they said exactly but something about Heponiemi possibly being the play driver of the line

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I'm pretty confident that you are mixing up the years. Hicketts was fine on the third pairing in 2015. In 2016 Lowry, his coach in the WHL, decided that Hicketts was actually the number one defenceman on the team and overused him, exposing Hicketts. It all culminated in him taking a penalty for shooting the puck over the glass, at the other end of the ice, while shorthanded as Canada tried to comeback against Finland. Hicketts was a trainwreck in 2016, in large part due to Lowry. This is bringing back bad memories. Lowry also, somehow, decided that Sanheim was Canada's seventh defenceman. It was mystifying.

Yeah that year was more so just a complete blunder by the coaching staff. Lowry really had no clue how to properly deploy that team to best utilize the players....So I do find it kind of hard to put blame on Hicketts, who honestly isn't even a bad player for being tossed into the deep end in a role he shouldn't of been by an incompetent coach.

 

[Pieck]

I didn't think Hicketts was that bad... And I would never hold that delay of game penalty against him, it was an insanely unfortunate play that I've only seen twice in my life because it's so unlikely to happen. And it was Virtanen's fault that the team was shorthanded to begin with

 

[Statsy]

I didn't think Hicketts was that bad... And I would never hold that delay of game penalty against him, it was an insanely unfortunate play that I've only seen twice in my life because it's so unlikely to happen. And it was Virtanen's fault that the team was shorthanded to begin with

I agree. Blaming a guy for a puck-over-glass call when it clears the FAR end of the rink is a stretch. But don't get me started on that whole Virtanen thing!

 

[1Gold Standard]

Farmer Bob says:

 

[JackSlater]

I'm surprised by the revision going on with Hicketts only two years later. He was absolutely horrible, and everyone at the time was well aware of it other than perhaps Lowry. There's no defending how bad he was. To even defend his penalty is possibly more bizarre. Canada fought back to tie the game, was shorthanded and Hicketts turned one of the most basic plays in hockey, shooting the puck down the ice, into a penalty. Canada goes down 5 on 3, gets scored on and loses by that one goal. He was terrible. He wasn't the only one, but it was one of the worst performances by a Canadian defenceman ever at the tournament. I'm not sure that he was worse than Virtanen is maybe the only positive I could give him from 2016.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I agree. Blaming a guy for a puck-over-glass call when it clears the FAR end of the rink is a stretch. But don't get me started on that whole Virtanen thing!

Virtanen was our double agent.

 

[bobber]

Yes!! Sorry. My mistake. Murphy. Good correction. He was worse than bean. By a hell of a lot

Hope your not a scout

 

[Dack]

I'm surprised by the revision going on with Hicketts only two years later. He was absolutely horrible, and everyone at the time was well aware of it other than perhaps Lowry. There's no defending how bad he was. To even defend his penalty is possibly more bizarre. Canada fought back to tie the game, was shorthanded and Hicketts turned one of the most basic plays in hockey, shooting the puck down the ice, into a penalty. Canada goes down 5 on 3, gets scored on and loses by that one goal. He was terrible. He wasn't the only one, but it was one of the worst performances by a Canadian defenceman ever at the tournament. I'm not sure that he was worse than Virtanen is maybe the only positive I could give him from 2016.

He also played like 25 minutes a game due to Lowry. He didn't really contribute offensively and was awful defensively while playing the most minutes on the team which makes it all the more bizarre to say he wasn't even the worst player on that team because not only did we get an all time awful performance from Virtanen but our goaltending (Blackwood & McDonald) was also awful.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I'm surprised by the revision going on with Hicketts only two years later. He was absolutely horrible, and everyone at the time was well aware of it other than perhaps Lowry. There's no defending how bad he was. To even defend his penalty is possibly more bizarre. Canada fought back to tie the game, was shorthanded and Hicketts turned one of the most basic plays in hockey, shooting the puck down the ice, into a penalty. Canada goes down 5 on 3, gets scored on and loses by that one goal. He was terrible. He wasn't the only one, but it was one of the worst performances by a Canadian defenceman ever at the tournament. I'm not sure that he was worse than Virtanen is maybe the only positive I could give him from 2016.

I don't really think I was defending Hicketts or even said he played well? But I mean it says something that he played well the year before but then in his 19 year old year he was just in over his head. I mean obviously the easiest thing to do is to just slam the kid....but really isn't it on the coach for putting Hicketts in a position to fail? A better coach then Lowry would have played Hicketts in a role he was more suited for and he would have been perfectly fine in that tournament.

 

[carlhockey]

One thing that really surprised me from their game against the Czech's was Formenton. I knew he was supposed to be fast but damn he's one of the fastest junior players I think I've ever seen.

 

[JackSlater]

I don't really think I was defending Hicketts or even said he played well? But I mean it says something that he played well the year before but then in his 19 year old year he was just in over his head. I mean obviously the easiest thing to do is to just slam the kid....but really isn't it on the coach for putting Hicketts in a position to fail? A better coach then Lowry would have played Hicketts in a role he was more suited for and he would have been perfectly fine in that tournament.

I wasn't talking about you.

 

[tony d]

Only 4 days until the tournament, should be a fun one. Go Canada go.

 

[jj cale]

I find it odd that they are splitting the goaltending duties tonight with hart already having played the entire first game, you would think it would be solely Points start tonight.

 

[Statsy]

I wasn't talking about you.

Soooo, I guess that means he's talking about me, and that's okay. We're allowed to disagree on things like who is playing better or worse. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say. Everyone has watched the same pre-tournament games with Canada this year, and yet a lot of us have VASTLY different takes as to which players struggled or excelled and which cuts were justified. The biases you have going in to the process inform your critique.

I stand by what I said in regards to the Hicketts situation. I do have a bias in that I already liked him as a player, but by that same token it means I was watching all the minutia of his play throughout the full tournament, whereas your bias may be that you just remember the last single game that he played poorly including that one single over the glass play that you hold him accountable for.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

With Dillon Dube returning from a shoulder injury, Canada will be dressing 13 forwards in Friday's pre-tournament game against Switzerland. It appears as if Tyler Steenbergen, who has 35 goals in 27 games for Swift Current this season, will start as the odd man out. But head coach Dominique Ducharme insists the 13th-forward label doesn't really apply to anyone in the group.

Canada Ice Chips: Who will be the 13th forward?

 

[JackSlater]

Soooo, I guess that means he's talking about me, and that's okay. We're allowed to disagree on things like who is playing better or worse. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say. Everyone has watched the same pre-tournament games with Canada this year, and yet a lot of us have VASTLY different takes as to which players struggled or excelled and which cuts were justified. The biases you have going in to the process inform your critique.

I stand by what I said in regards to the Hicketts situation. I do have a bias in that I already liked him as a player, but by that same token it means I was watching all the minutia of his play throughout the full tournament, whereas your bias may be that you just remember the last single game that he played poorly including that one single over the glass play that you hold him accountable for.

Hicketts was horrible in multiple games in that tournament. To claim otherwise is not really defensible. He was a problem before the quarterfinals and your assertion that I am basing my opinion of him on that one atrocious performance in one game is completely wrong. As a Detroit fan and having watched the 2015 tournament I didn't go in looking for issues with Hicketts, I just ended up inundated with them. You can go look at the 2016 roster threads and see that I, along with plenty of others, ripped Hicketts and wondered what Lowry was doing during that game, after that game and before that game. The one play the I specifically mentioned he is absolutely accountable for and sadly it was just one of the many issues with Hicketts in the tournament. It comes to mind so immediately because it was one of the worst plays a Canadian has made at the tournament in recent history. To say that Hicketts was anything other than horrible in 2016 really is pure revision. A person could claim that Virtanen was good that year too, but that would be revision of almost the same order. I have no problem with his performance in 2015 and I am quite willing to let Lowry take a fair share of the blame for how terrible Hicketts was that year as he took what should have been a bottom pairing defenceman and used him as though he was a clear cut number one.

Fortunately though Hicketts won't be returning, and I really only need to remember how terrible he was in 2016 if Hockey Canada somehow decides to bring Lowry back for another run.

The goaltender splitting is kind of odd in this upcoming exhibition game, but I suppose it is just an opportunity to give Point a taste of action while keeping Hart engaged. It's not unreasonable since Hart is almost certainly the starter.

 

[jj cale]

I suppose you are right, it does keep the rock solid going into the tournament number one stater engaged, not a bad idea I guess.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Yea, they just want to keep Hart in game-mode.. otherwise it is a fair amount of time off without a game.

 

[Statsy]

Hicketts was horrible in multiple games in that tournament. To claim otherwise is not really defensible. He was a problem before the quarterfinals and your assertion that I am basing my opinion of him on that one atrocious performance in one game is completely wrong. As a Detroit fan and having watched the 2015 tournament I didn't go in looking for issues with Hicketts, I just ended up inundated with them. You can go look at the 2016 roster threads and see that I, along with plenty of others, ripped Hicketts and wondered what Lowry was doing during that game, after that game and before that game. The one play the I specifically mentioned he is absolutely accountable for and sadly it was just one of the many issues with Hicketts in the tournament. It comes to mind so immediately because it was one of the worst plays a Canadian has made at the tournament in recent history. To say that Hicketts was anything other than horrible in 2016 really is pure revision. A person could claim that Virtanen was good that year too, but that would be revision of almost the same order. I have no problem with his performance in 2015 and I am quite willing to let Lowry take a fair share of the blame for how terrible Hicketts was that year as he took what should have been a bottom pairing defenceman and used him as though he was a clear cut number one.

Fortunately though Hicketts won't be returning, and I really only need to remember how terrible he was in 2016 if Hockey Canada somehow decides to bring Lowry back for another run.

The goaltender splitting is kind of odd in this upcoming exhibition game, but I suppose it is just an opportunity to give Point a taste of action while keeping Hart engaged. It's not unreasonable since Hart is almost certainly the starter.

I definitely disagree with your assessment on the puck over glass situation. If it's in your own end, that would be one thing (even then it would depend on the details of the situation, such as how much forecheck the player was under), but for the puck to go out at the far end of the rink, a hockey rarity if ever there was one, I would hardly call egregious.

As for the assertion that you were basing things on one game, that was just a hypothesis I was floating and I'll have to take your word for it that you were taking into account multiple games. I'm definitely not putting any faith in the fact that people in a GDT were all over him. People on forums tend to pick a scapegoat and spend their waking hours piling on. I certainly hope that people can give Jake Bean a clean slate and let him prove himself this year, but there are many that just won't let go of last year.

And finally, I'll weigh in on the goaltending split. It's just more evidence that the team is committed to Hart as being "the guy", though I'm not sure I would disagree with the assessment that we should ride the hottest goalie in the game right now.

 

[dm1371]

Bean reminds me of Dylan Olsen, who also deserves a mention of one of the d-men who didn't really deserve to be at the WJC.

 

[86Habs]

Ryan Murphy (2013) and Joe Hicketts (2016) are the two defenceman that stick out to me as being in the conversation for the worst Canadian d-men that I've ever seen (at least, d-men that played big minutes and were heavily relied upon...I'm sure there have been others who played limited roles who were nominally "worse" players).

Not coincidentally, Murphy and Hicketts were coached by their junior coaches, Steve Spott and Dave Lowry, respectively.

 

[jj cale]

Well Mr Bean is well positioned to be this years whipping boy is all I know, let's see how he checks out tonight.