Can we beat Tampa?

[maskingagent]

As a result of Tampa's recent implode and it could be that their coach has lost the room as well. All of this Tampa noise, favours the Leafs in the 1st round. I do not know how Cooper will turn that ship around to battle a hungrier leaf team ? Its looking more and more likely that the Leafs destroy Tampa (maybe even in 4 games) and after the series it may cause Tampa to blow it up and start their rebuild..

 

[Notsince67]

We can beat TB. But it’s going to be the same reasons like every year. The core players have to step and deliver, our PP has to produce. The biggest issues for me with this team is the coaching and the goaltending. I think Keefe has been exposed in the playoffs on numerous occasions.

Matthews/Nylander/Marner from the drop of the puck in game 1 have to be our best players. If not, you can bet this core will be broken up, and you’re going to see some massive changes in the summer. Only so many cracks at the fan before you realize it ain’t working

They were the best players last year. Means nothing if the other players play like crap.

 

[authentic]

As a result of Tampa's recent implode and it could be that their coach has lost the room as well. All of this Tampa noise, favours the Leafs in the 1st round. I do not know how Cooper will turn that ship around to battle a hungrier leaf team ? Its looking more and more likely that the Leafs destroy Tampa (maybe even in 4 games) and after the series it may cause Tampa to blow it up and start their rebuild..

Wow I wouldn't go this far. I expect us to win but it's going 5 or 6 games atleast. I just pray it doesn't go 7 again because we've been down that road too many times.

 

[authentic]

They were the best players last year. Means nothing if the other players play like crap.

Yep, Leafs best players last year (Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly) combined for 36 points and +4, not one was a - player. Tampa's best (Kucherov, Point, Stamkos, Palat, Hedman) combined for 23 points and -2, everyone was a - player except Palat.

I actually expect their best players to play a little better this time especially with Point being healthy but that shouldn't be a problem if Matthews is back to his regular self.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I never said they were or weren't an accomplishment. If you want to chime in, might want to actually know what the discussion was.

Regular season wins and losses - maybe if this team didn't mail it in so many nights people wouldn't get so upset when they lose.

In my mind, the challenge is this.

The strategy to beat the Leafs is to do the following

• Clog the middle
• Collapse in the D zone
• Rely on goaltending
• Wait for the Leafs to make a critical mistake(s)

There's no reason Tampa would be unable to do that given they are well coached and have solid goaltending even if their talent has declined.

Thus far, neither Keefe or the players have been able to consistently counter that game plan.

No answers at all

 

[bossram]

Regular season wins and losses - maybe if this team didn't mail it in so many nights people wouldn't get so upset when they lose.

And when they win? Which is most of the time? No one cares.

 

[mikeyz]

I think you need to reread what i wrote.

No I don’t. As a matter of fact, you actually need to re read what I wrote.

 

[LurkMuller]

In my mind, the challenge is this.

The strategy to beat the Leafs is to do the following

• Clog the middle
• Collapse in the D zone
• Rely on goaltending
• Wait for the Leafs to make a critical mistake(s)

There's no reason Tampa would be unable to do that given they are well coached and have solid goaltending even if their talent has declined.

Thus far, neither Keefe or the players have been able to consistently counter that game plan.

Keefe seems to want to counter strategy by matching the other team defensively and being patient offensively. Basically, telling the other coach, "You want to play that way? Let's see if you can score against us."
Trap teams generally rely on the opposing team to make a mistake or start to cheat offensively leading to a quick rush chance but if you refuse to press offensively, the trap team has no opportunity to counter attack you.
Keefe's strategy hasn't worked too well in the past ie. Columbus in the bubble but I would argue that the current leafs team is better set up to play defensive, grind it out hockey. A good example of this would be the recent Minnesota game. The wild executed that game plan about as well as you could expect any team to and they still lost.
I would also point out that the lightning are really not set up to play that style. I doubt they're going to change their identity and system to face the leafs. Toronto is clearly better defensively this year. If Tampa tries turn the series into a defensive grind fest, Toronto wins. Cooper is probably more likely to try and create a chaotic fire fight and hope that his top players (and goaltender)can outgun Toronto's. I like Tampa's chances better in that scenario.

 

[ShaneFalco]

And when they win? Which is most of the time? No one cares.

Nope cuz they fold like a cheap tent when it matters - every time.

 

[bossram]

Nope cuz they fold like a cheap tent when it matters - every time.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Regular season wins? Who cares. Regular season losses? Meltdown.

If you don't care about the regular season, then don't care. Don't make some performative stink after a mean nothing loss to the Canucks.

 

[Legion34]

If both teams are healthy

Bunting. Matthews. Nylander
Tavares. Orielly. Marner
Kerfoot. Kampf. Jarnkrok
ZAR. Accari Kampf

Cirelli. Point. Kucherov
Killorn. Stamkos. Hagel
Colton. Paul. Perry
Maroon. Belmont. Jeannot.

I mean don’t see how you don’t pick the leafs here?
Even if you think the big 4s are a wash…..

I would take the o rielly/bunting/kampf/accari/Lafferty over paul Colton Perry Belmont and Jeannot.

When u look at D

Rielly. Brodie
McCabe Lilly
Gio. Holl/schenn

Vs
Hedman. Cernak
Serg. Bogo
Per box. Cole.

Sure hedman is head and shoulders
But perbix and Bogo and Cole?

I would say it’s pretty close here

Vasy is the wild card

 

[ICBM]

This thread is like a fantasy hockey shrine. People calculating odds, comparing lineups.
It's playoff series. There gonna be a battle. And there are not enough warriors on this team. They can't even beat Montreal. What do you expect gonna happen against Tampa again?
Even if they win against Tampa they still lose. In this case Dubas and Shanny gonna stay despite next round humiliation.
I hope for nothing but house cleaning.

 

[NMacrules]

When you have Kerfoot and Holl in your lineup, then there is a good chance they crap the bed and be responsible for lost games in the playoffs. Holl and Kerfoot last season were both responsible for losses in game 6 and game 7. Dubas should of gotten rid of these two idiots. Kerfoot single handidly cost the Leafs game 7 and that twit is still here. Holl and his stupid interferance penalty also cost the Leafs. No matter what Dubas did, not moving these two is a massive fail.

 

[ToneDog]

If both teams are healthy

Bunting. Matthews. Nylander
Tavares. Orielly. Marner
Kerfoot. Kampf. Jarnkrok
ZAR. Accari Kampf

Cirelli. Point. Kucherov
Killorn. Stamkos. Hagel
Colton. Paul. Perry
Maroon. Belmont. Jeannot.

I mean don’t see how you don’t pick the leafs here?
Even if you think the big 4s are a wash…..

I would take the o rielly/bunting/kampf/accari/Lafferty over paul Colton Perry Belmont and Jeannot.

When u look at D

Rielly. Brodie
McCabe Lilly
Gio. Holl/schenn

Vs
Hedman. Cernak
Serg. Bogo
Per box. Cole.

Sure hedman is head and shoulders
But perbix and Bogo and Cole?

I would say it’s pretty close here

Vasy is the wild card

Not sure whether you are comparing apples to apples. Bunting and ROR are top 6 forwards and you are including them in a comparison to 5 bottom 6 Tampa players.

The way I see it, Paul, Colton and Jeannot (I believe that is their 3rd line) are much better than Kerfoot, Kampf and Jarnkrok. I give a slight edge to Maroon, Belmont, and Perry over ZAR, Acciari and Lafferty.

 

[hamzarocks]

If both teams are healthy

Bunting. Matthews. Nylander
Tavares. Orielly. Marner
Kerfoot. Kampf. Jarnkrok
ZAR. Accari Kampf

Cirelli. Point. Kucherov
Killorn. Stamkos. Hagel
Colton. Paul. Perry
Maroon. Belmont. Jeannot.

I mean don’t see how you don’t pick the leafs here?
Even if you think the big 4s are a wash…..

I would take the o rielly/bunting/kampf/accari/Lafferty over paul Colton Perry Belmont and Jeannot.

When u look at D

Rielly. Brodie
McCabe Lilly
Gio. Holl/schenn

Vs
Hedman. Cernak
Serg. Bogo
Per box. Cole.

Sure hedman is head and shoulders
But perbix and Bogo and Cole?

I would say it’s pretty close here

Vasy is the wild card

Kampft so nice you had to play him twice

 

[Legion34]

Not sure whether you are comparing apples to apples. Bunting and ROR are top 6 forwards and you are including them in a comparison to 5 bottom 6 Tampa players.

The way I see it, Paul, Colton and Jeannot (I believe that is their 3rd line) are much better than Kerfoot, Kampf and Jarnkrok. I give a slight edge to Maroon, Belmont, and Perry over ZAR, Acciari and Lafferty.

Yes. Comparing top 6 forwards is no contest

Orielly. Cirelli
Matthews. Point
Marner. Kuch
Tavares. Stamkos
Nylander. Killorn
Bunting. Hagel

Sure you can saw off if you like each teams big 4.
But one of Orielly/nylander vs killorn is an easy win

There team has clearly dropped talent

And it very clearly might not matter. At all. But it’s not the same team.

Palat/mcd/Rutta is a huge loss

 

[MJ65]

Yes we do have Marner / Nylander / ROR / JT, very good company to have it but to me, Matthews has to be the difference maker and the best player in this series - and he needs to elevate his game to the next level and the way he has played this season is not going to take us very far

 

[kevsh]

Comparing forwards is pretty close to irrelevant when you consider it all comes down to which ones show up in the series.

Going into last year's first round did anyone think that Nick Paul matched up favorably to anyone? Maybe a slight edge on, say, Kerfoot or Engvall, at best? Yet, there he was in game 7 outscoring all of Toronto and Tampa Bay's star forwards combined.

 

[TMLAM34]

I think we’ll need three balanced forward lines with one shutdown line. Initially I had Matthews paired with Nylander, Tavares paired with Marner and O’Reilly paired with Kerfoot but the more I think about it, a pairing of O’Reilly and Marner might be a better way to go about it given both players high defensive IQ. You can easily play those two against Kucherov and Point/Stamkos and you still have your shutdown line that consists of Acciari and Kampf.

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Jarnkrok - O’Reilly - Marner
Knies - Tavares - Kerfoot
Acciari - Kampf - Lafferty

 

[Brobust]

Better chance than last season, IMO.

Better goalie.
3rd line isn't soft and won't get murdered like last time.

 

[Sypher04]

I’m interested in seeing more of Nylander - Lafferty - Jarnkrok together before the playoffs start

 

[LurkMuller]

Comparing forwards is pretty close to irrelevant when you consider it all comes down to which ones show up in the series.

Going into last year's first round did anyone think that Nick Paul matched up favorably to anyone? Maybe a slight edge on, say, Kerfoot or Engvall, at best? Yet, there he was in game 7 outscoring all of Toronto and Tampa Bay's star forwards combined.

Hockey is full of random occurrences. Doesn't mean we shouldn't compare the teams on their merits. Normally over a 7 game series, the better team wins.
Last year both teams were so close that it came down to a coin toss basically. That's what opened the door to Nick Paul randomly having the game of his life and winning the series for Tampa.
Not sure it's as close this time around. Toronto should win in my opinion. Are they so much better that they are guaranteed to win against Tampa? No.
Could they get goalie-d? Absolutely, but they're the better team.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

As a result of Tampa's recent implode and it could be that their coach has lost the room as well. All of this Tampa noise, favours the Leafs in the 1st round. I do not know how Cooper will turn that ship around to battle a hungrier leaf team ? Its looking more and more likely that the Leafs destroy Tampa (maybe even in 4 games) and after the series it may cause Tampa to blow it up and start their rebuild..

Tampa is not rebuilding for at least 3 more years short of a forced rebuild caused by career ending injury to their core.

 

[authentic]

Comparing forwards is pretty close to irrelevant when you consider it all comes down to which ones show up in the series.

Going into last year's first round did anyone think that Nick Paul matched up favorably to anyone? Maybe a slight edge on, say, Kerfoot or Engvall, at best? Yet, there he was in game 7 outscoring all of Toronto and Tampa Bay's star forwards combined.

You're referencing a single game where we had a goal called back because of a pick yet their series winning goal only happened because Killorn got away with ripping Kampf's stick out of his hands and sitting on it just as Paul skated by him and scored. The Leafs best players outplayed Tampa's best and they got lucky in the last two games with ridiculous calls and non calls.

 

[kevsh]

The Leafs best players outplayed Tampa's best and they got lucky in the last two games with ridiculous calls and non calls.

That's a seriously generous way to spin the 3rd collapse/choke by the Leafs in the past 4 playoffs ... "It was all the refs fault." No, it wasn't

As for the comparisons, sure, overall Matthews and Marner posted better stats than the Bolts top guys, but you missed completely on the point I was making, or inadvertently confirmed it: In the end the series was not decided by the top stars, it was 2 goals by a depth player.