Player Discussion Cam Talbot (G)

[Alex1234]

I'm not apologizing for jack squat.

My post was about Talbot's hot play from Nov. to January where he had 14 wins and put the Sens back into the race. A point you clearly missed. I wasn't talking about your views on the trade back in July.

For the record, I am no fan of Talbot. His goaltending and injuries down the stretch are a major reason the Sens didn't make the playoffs. But he looked good in December and January and Dorion talking to him about an extension made sense.

He looked good for 2 months
Lets extend him

 

[Icelevel]

Really too bad he didn’t accept the 10 year x 10 extension offer. Oh well. I’m sure Pierre will figure something else out.

 

[bicboi64]

Well its tricky as these days as you see more and more pro level athletes still be effective beyond 40 years of age, something of a big rarity 15-20 years ago. That being said I have no idea how committed he is to training and making the necessary sacrifices to extend his career beyond expectations set for him. He wasn't signed to a 5 year deal and I do feel there was the expectation of him being that veteran presence and calm things calm when needed. Seems he got the wrong memo as he did pretty much a total opposite.

I did wonder the same as you in regards to his days in Minnesota and if he was a factor in them being one of the better defensive teams in the league or if the style and system of hockey the team played was a factor in masking flaws in his game that would have made noticeable difference in the teams assessment of him. His numbers in Minnesota weren't spectacular but I am also of the belief that primarly defensive minded teams are not exactly the best and most ideal scenarios for most goalies. Majority of goalies are at their best when they are active and busy; in a rhythm. Defensive teams strive on not letting such from happening. The numbers are fairly consistent for his carreer and that is why I was not worried about the signing. This team does not need elite goaltending, if they can get or find it hell yea why not, ideally something consistent in effort and stats , have the ability to be the difference if absolutely needed / might never need to

I'm all for taking chances on older players, heck Alife, Andy, etc... played well for us after age 35. I just don't want us trading touted prospects that we haven't given a chance, its just a symptom of random impatience + poor player evaluatino that this organization needs to stop with.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'm all for taking chances on older players, heck Alife, Andy, etc... played well for us after age 35. I just don't want us trading touted prospects that we haven't given a chance, its just a symptom of random impatience + poor player evaluatino that this organization needs to stop with.

Not sure how random it was. Consider that this is the second time that he was traded from a team that opted to go with a different young goalie as their guy for the future. We’re hearing about past persistent conditioning issues from the new GM, so perhaps there is more to the story that fans don’t know.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Really too bad he didn’t accept the 10 year x 10 extension offer. Oh well. I’m sure Pierre will figure something else out.

Good thing Pierre offered him $1.1M

 

[Tuna99]

Let’s send Talbot out with class. He was there for Craig Anderson and the Sens when we needed some good vibes - good guy.

 

[swiftwin]

Not sure how random it was. Consider that this is the second time that he was traded from a team that opted to go with a different young goalie as their guy for the future. We’re hearing about past persistent conditioning issues from the new GM, so perhaps there is more to the story that fans don’t know.

Uh... I'm pretty sure the Wild traded Talbot because they opted to go for an even older goalie.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Uh... I'm pretty sure the Wild traded Talbot because they opted to go for an even older goalie.

I meant Pittsburg…. Oh, and I was talking about Gus…. Lol

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Seems like he is done. Sogaard has rejoined the team and will back-up, and the team will ride the hot hand (which obviously isn't Talbot)

 

[PlayItAgain]

Good. Play the kids. No reason to start Talbot as he has no future here

 

[Larionov]

Something has clearly happened to Talbot - whether it is physical or mental, he appears to be broken right now. His focus and confidence are shot, which is evident when he appears nervous on even routine shots. For the sake of the team, you just can't play him right now.

The goalie market is so thin that someone will sign him, although it will be a one year deal at minimum salary with incentives. Had he signed in January he likely could have gotten himself 2x3.5 quite easily...

 

[bicboi64]

Not sure how random it was. Consider that this is the second time that he was traded from a team that opted to go with a different young goalie as their guy for the future. We’re hearing about past persistent conditioning issues from the new GM, so perhaps there is more to the story that fans don’t know.

Me saying it was random has to do with current management taking short cuts with these trades where they give up on young players too early for players that aren't as good as the one's we're bringing in. Ultimately its about player evaluation. Zibby for Brass, Gus for Talbot, Dorion never learns.

If Gus had a conditioning issue, that's one of the more easy problems to address. Given all the patience management has shown for so many young players this rebuild, why was that time not given to Gus? We can speculate, but y'all know me, it appears another poor evaluation of players we have and who we acquire.

 

[Que]

Seems like he is done. Sogaard has rejoined the team and will back-up, and the team will ride the hot hand (which obviously isn't Talbot)

Tyler Kleven

 

[Larionov]

Seems like he is done. Sogaard has rejoined the team and will back-up, and the team will ride the hot hand (which obviously isn't Talbot)

The "hot hand" feels like shorthand for Meralainen getting another start, and I am here for it. I was iffy about playing him to start with just because I didn't want him put in a bad situation, but to his credit he weathered it fine. Now that the seal is broken, might as well keep playing him as long as he keeps playing well...

 

[Ice-Tray]

Me saying it was random has to do with current management taking short cuts with these trades where they give up on young players too early for players that aren't as good as the one's we're bringing in. Ultimately its about player evaluation. Zibby for Brass, Gus for Talbot, Dorion never learns.

If Gus had a conditioning issue, that's one of the more easy problems to address. Given all the patience management has shown for so many young players this rebuild, why was that time not given to Gus? We can speculate, but y'all know me, it appears another poor evaluation of players we have and who we acquire.

Conditioning issue isn’t as easy to fix as you guys think.

Its not that it isn’t occurred to him, hes a professional athlete, it’s that he’s lacked the drive and commitment to show up in, and stay in shape. That’s an internal issue that has to be fixed internally. Those things often happen with upheaval or change, where the player has to decide whether they are going to be able to stay in the league on their third team.

 

[bicboi64]

Conditioning issue isn’t as easy to fix as you guys think.

Its not that it isn’t occurred to him, hes a professional athlete, it’s that he’s lacked the drive and commitment to show up in, and stay in shape. That’s an internal issue that has to be fixed internally. Those things often happen with upheaval or change, where the player has to decide whether they are going to be able to stay in the league on their third team.

I don't think its as simple as he got traded and a switch flicked in his mind immediately. Minnesota has surrounded Gus with an adequate defense from day 1 and put him into a position to succeed.

If our management is willing to stop developing a prospect after <30 game because of conditioning, we have to ask ourselves what they did to address the situation. Gus sounds like a player that wants to get ebtter but has had to deal with some health issues, he's even spoken out about how lingering covid effects and the way it messed with his ability to be at camp made conditioning an issue for him. I think its premature to speculate that he was a problem because his conditioning was poor. Gus becoming more fit isn't why he's broken out in Minnesota, its being surrounded by a blueline that is capable of helping a goalie respond.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don't think its as simple as he got traded and a switch flicked in his mind immediately. Minnesota has surrounded Gus with an adequate defense from day 1 and put him into a position to succeed.

If our management is willing to stop developing a prospect after <30 game because of conditioning, we have to ask ourselves what they did to address the situation. Gus sounds like a player that wants to get ebtter but has had to deal with some health issues, he's even spoken out about how lingering covid effects and the way it messed with his ability to be at camp made conditioning an issue for him. I think its premature to speculate that he was a problem because his conditioning was poor. Gus becoming more fit isn't why he's broken out in Minnesota, its being surrounded by a blueline that is capable of helping a goalie respond.

Oh I hear you, but it was a calculated trade, not random or knee-jerk.

We weren’t going to roll all season with 3 goalies, Forsberg was better than Gus, and we wanted a seasoned vet to platoon with Forsberg to give us stability in net this season. Talbot was an All-Star, and Gus had some stumbles, and some issues.

I have no idea why you, Joe blow fan, think it’s premature to speculate that his conditioning was a problem, when his GM flat out told it was a problem yesterday. You sure you know better? You also don’t seem to understand how conditioning affects goalies. Being in top condition affects a goalies mental game as much as the physical. This was also explained by the pros.

Anyways, it doesn’t mean the org thought he was crap, or that he couldn’t put it together, it meant that they gave up to get a ‘better’ tender for the short term, while clearly feeling that Soggy was their future guy. As I said, Gus has been traded by both Pitt and Ott, so perhaps he has needed some added motivation?

Didnt work out this season due to injuries, and we’ll see how Gus fares long term.

 

[bicboi64]

Oh I hear you, but it was a calculated trade, not random or knee-jerk.

We weren’t going to roll all season with 3 goalies, Forsberg was better than Gus, and we wanted a seasoned vet to platoon with Forsberg to give us stability in net this season. Talbot was an All-Star, and Gus had some stumbles, and some issues.

I have no idea why you, Joe blow fan, think it’s premature to speculate that his conditioning was a problem, when his GM flat out told it was a problem yesterday. You sure you know better? You also don’t seem to understand how conditioning affects goalies. Being in top condition affects a goalies mental game as much as the physical. This was also explained by the pros.

Anyways, it doesn’t mean the org thought he was crap, or that he couldn’t put it together, it meant that they gave up to get a ‘better’ tender for the short term, while clearly feeling that Soggy was their future guy. As I said, Gus has been traded by both Pitt and Ott, so perhaps he has needed some added motivation?

Didnt work out this season due to injuries, and we’ll see how Gus fares long term.

And why do you Joe Shmoe think that "it’s that he’s lacked the drive and commitment to show up in, and stay in shape. That’s an internal issue that has to be fixed internally" about Gus?

His GM thought he was out of shape, and what did Ottawa do to address that? If Guerin also thinks that Gus's conditioning is the key reason why he's performing better, he's seriously undermining how talented Minnesota's D is compared to Ottawa.

Whether you posit its a calculated trade, or me arguing it was random, it shows management as very poor in terms of pro evaluation, which is my central argument. It management thinks that an aging vet behind a deep blue line is going to perform the same on Ottawa's blueline, that's simply very poor player evaluation. Their judgement on who the better goalie, random or calculated was plain wrong.

 

[Ice-Tray]

And why do you Joe Shmoe think that "it’s that he’s lacked the drive and commitment to show up in, and stay in shape. That’s an internal issue that has to be fixed internally" about Gus?

His GM thought he was out of shape, and what did Ottawa do to address that? If Guerin also thinks that Gus's conditioning is the key reason why he's performing better, he's seriously undermining how talented Minnesota's D is compared to Ottawa.

Whether you posit its a calculated trade, or me arguing it was random, it shows management as very poor in terms of pro evaluation, which is my central argument. It management thinks that an aging vet behind a deep blue line is going to perform the same on Ottawa's blueline, that's simply very poor player evaluation. Their judgement on who the better goalie, random or calculated was plain wrong.

Well next time I guess I’ll just go to you for info about the Wild instead of listening to their GM…. lol

 

[bicboi64]

Well next time I guess I’ll just go to you for info about the Wild instead of listening to their GM…. lol

On a side note, I've been eating humble pie all season long regarding Guerin. I thought him buying out Parise and Suter at the same time was one of the dumbest moves in the modern cap era, but what he's done with that Wild roster is beyond impressive. $12 milllion in dead capspace, and the team is competing for the division. I'm sure getting stuffed lol

 

[Ice-Tray]

On a side note, I've been eating humble pie all season long regarding Guerin. I thought him buying out Parise and Suter at the same time was one of the dumbest moves in the modern cap era, but what he's done with that Wild roster is beyond impressive. $12 milllion in dead capspace, and the team is competing for the division. I'm sure getting stuffed lol

It’s an insane dead cap amount though, no need to eat pie. I think it was dumb as well, and we saw them have to trade Fiala away already.

I doubt they will ever be cup contenders until they have access to that money, but good on them for making the playoffs!

 

[Larionov]

It’s an insane dead cap amount though, no need to eat pie. I think it was dumb as well, and we saw them have to trade Fiala away already.

I doubt they will ever be cup contenders until they have access to that money, but good on them for making the playoffs!

The West is wide open, though - you can make a good case for almost any team outside of Winnipeg/Calgary. I could see the Wild making a run to the Finals, and once they get there they'll be facing an East team that had to go through a death march to make it that far. It is not all that far fetched that Gus could be a Conn Smythe contender if he is the hot hand they ride to the Finals...

 

[Larionov]

BTW, if you want to know why it is that Talbot thought he was worth $5 million, just consider this - Chris Driedger is under contract for one more year next season to Seattle at a $3.5 million cap hit, $4.5 million in hard cash. He missed most of this year with a torn ACL suffered at the Worlds last year, and is now just starting to play in the AHL. If you're Talbot, and you see a guy like Driedger getting 4.5....

 

[Senator Stanley]

He looked good for 2 months
Lets extend him

It worked with Joseph.

 

[boxbox]

I'm all for taking chances on older players, heck Alife, Andy, etc... played well for us after age 35. I just don't want us trading touted prospects that we haven't given a chance, its just a symptom of random impatience + poor player evaluatino that this organization needs to stop with.

Its easy to criticize moves once they finalize and don't meet expectations. Every GM makes good and bad moves, that is why certain GMs are regarded to be better at the position than others. I guarantee you that no GM makes moves that include the teams prostpects hoping once the trade is complete they turn into all stars for their new team. You also have to consider that Ottawa was never a desirable location for player so if a player was needed for whatever team related reason it was by trade or by signing the player. Being a budget team the Sens never really threw money at FA in the summer or had no problem offering over market value contracts as a mean to attract FA. Only a fool knowing that would not use it to their advantage when trading with the Sens.

All that has potential to change very soon as the team is young and trending up, new ownership is in the works and with that hopefully a new dt arena. Ottawa as a city has changed a lot ( for the better) in the last 5 years or so