Value of: Cam fowler to edmonton

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Ducks in a row

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Dec 17, 2013
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I'm not sure if there's that many teams willing to take Despres' contract without sending salary back. If there was I think Anaheim would've jumped on that.

If Lindholm is signed at say 6 mill per, and you gain say $1.5 mill in salary (have to take someone back) for Despres which then goes to a bridge deal for Rakell .... that puts Anaheim right at the cap roof.

Which is fine ... but from everything I've heard, the Anaheim ownership is not down for spending to the cap roof.

They need to move Fowler as part of a cap dump or attach one of Stoner + Despres in part of a Fowler deal so that they come out of it $3-$4 million less in salary, but you can't expect teams to take on that much salary unless the deal is favorable to them.

Trade Despres for a pick and a cheap bottom 6 forward I would be fine with. Trade Stoner with some retention and a pick for a worse pick to help save some money we can do as well.

Fowler isn't being traded just to dump salary. If we trade Fowler we better be getting a nice win now piece (makes less then Fowler) or we don't trade him.
 

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
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Trade Despres for a pick and a cheap bottom 6 forward I would be fine with. Trade Stoner with some retention and a pick for a worse pick to help save some money we can do as well.

Fowler isn't being traded just to dump salary. If we trade Fowler we better be getting a nice win now piece (makes less then Fowler) or we don't trade him.

He's saying that Despres and Stoner are the cap dumps, which they are. And that no team has any incentive to help Anaheim with their cap problems.

I don't think anyone in their right mind is thinking Fowler is a cap dump but LHD in this league are plentiful so your pick of available cheap, young scoring LW as a return is likely very limited.

Guys like Tatar and Spooner, as you've already mentioned probably seem like a nice return, but it begs the question why Boston would want Fowler with Torey Krug, a good offensive defenseman already signed long-term. Or why Detroit, with Kronwall, Dekeyser and Smith on their left side already would need Fowler at the expense of a good, young winger.
 

TopShelfWaterBottle

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Mar 16, 2014
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He's saying that Despres and Stoner are the cap dumps, which they are. And that no team has any incentive to help Anaheim with their cap problems.

I don't think anyone in their right mind is thinking Fowler is a cap dump but LHD in this league are plentiful so your pick of available cheap, young scoring LW as a return is likely very limited.

Guys like Tatar and Spooner, as you've already mentioned probably seem like a nice return, but it begs the question why Boston would want Fowler with Torey Krug, a good offensive defenseman already signed long-term. Or why Detroit, with Kronwall, Dekeyser and Smith on their left side already would need Fowler at the expense of a good, young winger.

Probably because the goal is to ice the best D possible. Why would you only want Torrey krug when you can have both Torey and a better dman In fowler to move the puck. Kronwall is declining quick so why not bring in a good young minute munching puck mover to help with the transition game? Did you think that last paragraph through before you wrote it?
 

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
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Probably because the goal is to ice the best D possible. Why would you only want Torrey krug when you can have both Torey and a better dman In fowler to move the puck. Kronwall is declining quick so why not bring in a good young minute munching puck mover to help with the transition game? Did you think that last paragraph through before you wrote it?

Despite him declining, Kronwall is still there, signed for three more seasons on that roster. Detroit's already in cap hell and they just gave Dan Dekeyser a long-term deal to be a future piece. I wouldn't bet on them adding another in Fowler.

In Boston's case, I don't see Fowler as the type of guy they should be targeting. Krug and Fowler essentially fill the same role currently, Fowler's only advantage is that he PKs a bit. But I think Boston, a team that's going to need guys that produce offense, would be better off holding just on to Spooner and signing Kris Russell. He's not Fowler, but he fills a the need of a top 4 guy without losing goals up front.
 

Paul4587

Registered User
Jan 26, 2006
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Despite him declining, Kronwall is still there, signed for three more seasons on that roster. Detroit's already in cap hell and they just gave Dan Dekeyser a long-term deal to be a future piece. I wouldn't bet on them adding another in Fowler.

In Boston's case, I don't see Fowler as the type of guy they should be targeting. Krug and Fowler essentially fill the same role currently, Fowler's only advantage is that he PKs a bit. But I think Boston, a team that's going to need guys that produce offense, would be better off holding just on to Spooner and signing Kris Russell. He's not Fowler, but he fills a the need of a top 4 guy without losing goals up front.

Fowler and Krug are completely different players. Krug is far more comparable to Vatanen than he is Fowler.
 

Duck Off

HF needs an App
Oct 25, 2002
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Despite him declining, Kronwall is still there, signed for three more seasons on that roster. Detroit's already in cap hell and they just gave Dan Dekeyser a long-term deal to be a future piece. I wouldn't bet on them adding another in Fowler.

In Boston's case, I don't see Fowler as the type of guy they should be targeting. Krug and Fowler essentially fill the same role currently, Fowler's only advantage is that he PKs a bit. But I think Boston, a team that's going to need guys that produce offense, would be better off holding just on to Spooner and signing Kris Russell. He's not Fowler, but he fills a the need of a top 4 guy without losing goals up front.

This is exactly why I can't stand Fowler discussions on HF. The bold is completely false. Krug and Vatanen are comparable. I would consider Fowler more of a "defensive defenseman" than an offensive defenseman. People don't see it that because everything about Fowler indicates the opposite. However, his defensive game is where he's best at, and definitely where we'd miss him most. People love shoving advanced stats down our throats (another reason I despise Fowler discussions here), and ignore usage. People that watch the majority of Duck games know Fowler's importance. Although it's debatable, I'd prefer to keep Fowler over Vatanen. Fowler takes the hard matchups in unfavorable situations. Lindholm started getting some of that responsibility as he became more consistent. Fowler also carried the weakest D partner most of the year, while maintaining a high level of play. Fowler's weakness is that he's on the soft side, and that his shot sucks. He had several opportunities on the PP where he should have scored. Why is he on the PP? Transition. He's the best transition defenseman we have, and it's not close. Vatanen does a lot of "fancy plays" where he goes from one end to another, but Fowler is easily superior in the transition game, and entering the offensive zone on the PP.

I think the bottom line is that Fowler is much more important to Anaheim than most realize. People look at his poor fancy stats and come to their own conclusions. Any time this happens, it's really impossible for fans to come up with some type of agreement. Every fan base has their right to their own opinions, but there's no doubt in my mind that fans are underselling Fowler severely. Edmonton for example, although he's not exactly what they need, I think he would instantly become Edmonton's best defenseman. I know people will say "he's not better than Larsson", and that's fine. I won't lie, I haven't seen enough of Larsson to know how affective he is. I do know that most here believe Lindholm is superior to Larsson, and if someone asked me who was the best defenseman we had last year, it'd be Fowler. Lindholm was the best in the playoffs and the last 3rd/4th of the season, but Fowler was the best for the majority. It's not just other teams underselling Fowler though. Several Duck fans do the same thing. They forget that to start the season, when everyone was ass, Fowler was terrific. I'm as big of a Lindholm fan as any Duck fan, but I don't ignore the first 3/4ths of the season. He's got his flaws, and they are infuriating, but he's much more important to Anaheim than people realize.
 

Pennaduck

Registered User
Aug 17, 2016
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Pennsylvania
This is exactly why I can't stand Fowler discussions on HF. The bold is completely false. Krug and Vatanen are comparable. I would consider Fowler more of a "defensive defenseman" than an offensive defenseman. People don't see it that because everything about Fowler indicates the opposite. However, his defensive game is where he's best at, and definitely where we'd miss him most. People love shoving advanced stats down our throats (another reason I despise Fowler discussions here), and ignore usage. People that watch the majority of Duck games know Fowler's importance. Although it's debatable, I'd prefer to keep Fowler over Vatanen. Fowler takes the hard matchups in unfavorable situations. Lindholm started getting some of that responsibility as he became more consistent. Fowler also carried the weakest D partner most of the year, while maintaining a high level of play. Fowler's weakness is that he's on the soft side, and that his shot sucks. He had several opportunities on the PP where he should have scored. Why is he on the PP? Transition. He's the best transition defenseman we have, and it's not close. Vatanen does a lot of "fancy plays" where he goes from one end to another, but Fowler is easily superior in the transition game, and entering the offensive zone on the PP.

I think the bottom line is that Fowler is much more important to Anaheim than most realize. People look at his poor fancy stats and come to their own conclusions. Any time this happens, it's really impossible for fans to come up with some type of agreement. Every fan base has their right to their own opinions, but there's no doubt in my mind that fans are underselling Fowler severely. Edmonton for example, although he's not exactly what they need, I think he would instantly become Edmonton's best defenseman. I know people will say "he's not better than Larsson", and that's fine. I won't lie, I haven't seen enough of Larsson to know how affective he is. I do know that most here believe Lindholm is superior to Larsson, and if someone asked me who was the best defenseman we had last year, it'd be Fowler. Lindholm was the best in the playoffs and the last 3rd/4th of the season, but Fowler was the best for the majority. It's not just other teams underselling Fowler though. Several Duck fans do the same thing. They forget that to start the season, when everyone was ass, Fowler was terrific. I'm as big of a Lindholm fan as any Duck fan, but I don't ignore the first 3/4ths of the season. He's got his flaws, and they are infuriating, but he's much more important to Anaheim than people realize.

Well said. I have been anxiously hoping we don't trade him and Murray finds a more tolerable way to save our cap situation. I think so much of Fowler's game is understated so even a lot of Ducks fans don't notice him out there or realize how important he's been to our team. Carlyle liked him a lot so hopefully he is pressuring Murray to keep him and move other guys instead.
 

WhatTheDuck

9 - 20 - 8
May 17, 2007
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Worst Case, Ontario
But we don't want bad players, even if they are right handed d. I don't see any team helping you guys out of that cap situation by taking Bieksa. Not unless you give up something pretty good along with him...and even then, I wouldn't.

Moot point anyway, Bieksa's camp pushed hard for a NMC because he doesn't want to move his family again. I doubt you'll ever see him waive it other than as a formality to be exposed in the expansion draft.
 

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
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Moot point anyway, Bieksa's camp pushed hard for a NMC because he doesn't want to move his family again. I doubt you'll ever see him waive it other than as a formality to be exposed in the expansion draft.

You hope.
 

Trolfoli

Registered User
May 30, 2013
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Oilers offersheet at a reasonable rate. Ducks GM thinks about getting a POSSIBLE 1st overall, which could turn into a cost controlled asset that will take the focus off the aging crew.

I bet the Ducks GM/Owner would think pretty hard about getting the Oilers 1st round pick before the season started.
 

Pennaduck

Registered User
Aug 17, 2016
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Oilers offersheet at a reasonable rate. Ducks GM thinks about getting a POSSIBLE 1st overall, which could turn into a cost controlled asset that will take the focus off the aging crew.

I bet the Ducks GM/Owner would think pretty hard about getting the Oilers 1st round pick before the season started.

Offer sheet Lindholm? Oilers don't have their second round pick so that offer sheet would have to be under 5.6 million, which the Ducks readily match without hesitation, or over 9 million AAV which is ridiculous
 

Pennaduck

Registered User
Aug 17, 2016
738
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Pennsylvania
You hope.

the alternative is we buy him out and he either retires from playing or has to move his family, which as the post above clearly states, he would not want to do, so you tell me what he would prefer if offered that situation.

The buyout would suck for us but there is no way we lose a good young defenseman because of his NMC
 

Rebuilt

Registered User
Jun 8, 2014
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There has been just about every avail player in the league pushed into a thread to the Oilers.

Enough already.

I suggest we just go with what we have this year. Expect an 82 point season. Hope for more.
 

eternalbedhead

Let's not rebuild and say we did
Aug 10, 2015
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This is exactly why I can't stand Fowler discussions on HF. The bold is completely false. Krug and Vatanen are comparable. I would consider Fowler more of a "defensive defenseman" than an offensive defenseman. People don't see it that because everything about Fowler indicates the opposite. However, his defensive game is where he's best at, and definitely where we'd miss him most. People love shoving advanced stats down our throats (another reason I despise Fowler discussions here), and ignore usage. People that watch the majority of Duck games know Fowler's importance. Although it's debatable, I'd prefer to keep Fowler over Vatanen. Fowler takes the hard matchups in unfavorable situations. Lindholm started getting some of that responsibility as he became more consistent. Fowler also carried the weakest D partner most of the year, while maintaining a high level of play. Fowler's weakness is that he's on the soft side, and that his shot sucks. He had several opportunities on the PP where he should have scored. Why is he on the PP? Transition. He's the best transition defenseman we have, and it's not close. Vatanen does a lot of "fancy plays" where he goes from one end to another, but Fowler is easily superior in the transition game, and entering the offensive zone on the PP.

I think the bottom line is that Fowler is much more important to Anaheim than most realize. People look at his poor fancy stats and come to their own conclusions. Any time this happens, it's really impossible for fans to come up with some type of agreement. Every fan base has their right to their own opinions, but there's no doubt in my mind that fans are underselling Fowler severely. Edmonton for example, although he's not exactly what they need, I think he would instantly become Edmonton's best defenseman. I know people will say "he's not better than Larsson", and that's fine. I won't lie, I haven't seen enough of Larsson to know how affective he is. I do know that most here believe Lindholm is superior to Larsson, and if someone asked me who was the best defenseman we had last year, it'd be Fowler. Lindholm was the best in the playoffs and the last 3rd/4th of the season, but Fowler was the best for the majority. It's not just other teams underselling Fowler though. Several Duck fans do the same thing. They forget that to start the season, when everyone was ass, Fowler was terrific. I'm as big of a Lindholm fan as any Duck fan, but I don't ignore the first 3/4ths of the season. He's got his flaws, and they are infuriating, but he's much more important to Anaheim than people realize.
Debate of the validity of using advanced analytics to evaluate a player's defensive prowess aside, it's kind of funny how people ignore context completely when looking at HERO charts. Fowler got the hardest minutes, with the worst defenseman, and he started a lot in his D-zone. (there's a general trend between D-zone starts and CF%)
 

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
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Offer sheet Lindholm? Oilers don't have their second round pick so that offer sheet would have to be under 5.6 million, which the Ducks readily match without hesitation, or over 9 million AAV which is ridiculous

They have their 2nd for offer-sheet purposes. The Boston pick would simply slide to 2018. But the Oilers aren't going to offer-sheet simply because he's left-handed, will need to be protected next summer and wouldn't fit into their long-term salary structure.
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
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Offer sheet Lindholm? Oilers don't have their second round pick so that offer sheet would have to be under 5.6 million, which the Ducks readily match without hesitation, or over 9 million AAV which is ridiculous
In fact they can still make an offer that would include the second as compensation. If it was successful the 2nd to Boston would be deferred a year. While I can't see the Oilers making an OS for Lindholm, hypothetically what would the Ducks do if the offer was front loaded and 5 years at $7.5M. I am assuming they would match but it would create a challenging cap/budget situation. In that case an OS to Rakell for $3.75M would be a natural follow-up. (Rakell is a guy I think a lot of teams could use. He can play a lot of roles depending on team need. )

I am actually a little surprised given the shortage of good defensemen right now that someone has not tried to use a threat of an OS to get the Ducks motivated to move one of theirs. While OS are seldom successful, and we have no idea if a guy like Lindholm would even sign one, if it was ever going to work this is one of the better chances so a threat might well be considered as credible.
 

McSuper

5-14-6-1
Jun 16, 2012
17,151
6,911
Halifax
Hall for Larsson actually happened, so it is real.

Hamilton for picks actually happen . Do we judge all deals by that deal . A few years ago the Islander also added to top 4 D for lessor picks base on teams being up against the cap .

As you said the deal happen but what were the reason behind the deal ? Puljujarvi falling to the Oilers ? Lucic signing ? Larsson contract against Halls long term ? There are reason teams make deals and a team buying low or a team over paying on a said deal doesn't not dictate the price on future deals .

Oilers over paid . I was one of the vocal Oiler fan who wanted Hall traded . I think the Oilers should have gotten a sweetener added in but I am fine with the deal , drops all our D down a notch and hopefully that will make them more successful .
 

McSuper

5-14-6-1
Jun 16, 2012
17,151
6,911
Halifax
In fact they can still make an offer that would include the second as compensation. If it was successful the 2nd to Boston would be deferred a year. While I can't see the Oilers making an OS for Lindholm, hypothetically what would the Ducks do if the offer was front loaded and 5 years at $7.5M. I am assuming they would match but it would create a challenging cap/budget situation. In that case an OS to Rakell for $3.75M would be a natural follow-up. (Rakell is a guy I think a lot of teams could use. He can play a lot of roles depending on team need. )

I am actually a little surprised given the shortage of good defensemen right now that someone has not tried to use a threat of an OS to get the Ducks motivated to move one of theirs. While OS are seldom successful, and we have no idea if a guy like Lindholm would even sign one, if it was ever going to work this is one of the better chances so a threat might well be considered as credible.

The Oilers can not defer the pick to Boston any longer . They defer it at the 2015 draft , defer it again at the 2016 draft next year it is time to pay the piper
 

Ducksgo*

Guest
Oilers offersheet at a reasonable rate. Ducks GM thinks about getting a POSSIBLE 1st overall, which could turn into a cost controlled asset that will take the focus off the aging crew.

I bet the Ducks GM/Owner would think pretty hard about getting the Oilers 1st round pick before the season started.

Highly doubtful. It's not even guaranteed first overall. And I wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch, I doubt EDM will even draft top 5 this year.
 

Ducksgo*

Guest
Offer sheet Lindholm? Oilers don't have their second round pick so that offer sheet would have to be under 5.6 million, which the Ducks readily match without hesitation, or over 9 million AAV which is ridiculous

Not only that. Our organization wouldn't be stupid enough to let Lindholm go with what's being presented in this years draft.

Lindholm>>>>>2017 draft hands down
 

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