Value of: Cam fowler to edmonton

[DavidBL]

As a Ducks fans here are the reasons I think Cam for Cam won't happen:
1. Age. Though Cam still produces at a high rate the Ducks forward group is already getting quite old. They need to be adding player that can replace the older Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler when they move prime young defensive assets. Otherwise they go through a rebuild period they can't really afford.

2. Money. Cam makes too much. For it to work for the Ducks NJ would have to retain a huge portion of that contract and it just doesn't happen. The only instance I can recall was Yandle. This also cuts significantly into the return value. IE the Ducks would be losing more value on th rest of the return by being forced to have NJ retain.

3. Injury concern. There is two parts of this. One the Ducks don't have the depth really to replace Cam in his inevitable injury so he is only partially filling that need. Second they literally can't afford players going on IR all the time. Depending on what insurance would cover the Ducks simply don't have extra money to pay a significant salary to someone not playing.

4. Size. Cam isn't really the type of player BM or Carlyle tend to like. Not to say he couldn't be effective in the west but Cam just isn't the right style of player. Not when you consider factors 1-3 as well.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Let's base this off of real value, not value based off of the Hall for Larsson trade. XD

Edmonton doesn't have the LW that Bob Murray would be seeking for Cam Fowler, Seriously doubt a deal can be had here.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Just for giggles and the sake of discussion:

To Edmonton: Cam Fowler and Clayton Stoner ($7.25 million AAV)
To Anaheim: Benoit Pouliot and Oilers '17 1st round pick ($4 million AAV)

Anaheim rids themselves of Stoner and gains $3.25 million AAV after the trade as well as potentially a top 5-10 pick if the Oilers once again don't take a step forward as a team. Pouliot is an adequate top 6 LW with size and good speed as well.

Benoit Pouliot isn't an upgrade for Anaheim, Why would Murray be interested in him. They already said that there wasn't a need in Anaheim for Pouliot.

 

[Duck Off]

Benoit Pouliot isn't an upgrade for Anaheim, Why would Murray be interested in him. They already said that there wasn't a need in Anaheim for Pouliot.

I don't agree with this. I'd like Pouliot, but not in a package for Fowler. RNH is the only realistic piece from Edmonton I'd be interested in, and since we'd have to add salary it won't work.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I don't agree with this. I'd like Pouliot, but not in a package for Fowler. RNH is the only realistic piece from Edmonton I'd be interested in, and since we'd have to add salary it won't work.

Benoit Pouliot right now at best is a 3rd line LW Who's best year was 36 points don't see how this is good for Anaheim plus he makes the same salary as Fowler and Anaheim needs to shed. Most Duck fans say that they've no use for Pouliot.

 

[Hagged]

This. Vatanen is the only realistic one we want. And he's now locked up, not realistic anymore if it ever was.

Not helping out ANAs cap troubles. Deal with your own problems.

Vatanen is just as realistic/unrealistic as Fowler. Fowler is signed for two more seasons, Vats for four. The difference in their availability isn't as big as some make it to be. Vatanen being signed just ups his value close to the level, where somebody actually paying it might be unrealistic.

As such, some kind of deal around Vatanen for Puljujarvi as main pieces might work for both parties and make both teams better in the short and long term (assuming Ducks are able to keep Fowler then).

 

[Duck Off]

Benoit Pouliot right now at best is a 3rd line LW Who's best year was 36 points don't see how this is good for Anaheim plus he makes the same salary as Fowler and Anaheim needs to shed. Most Duck fans say that they've no use for Pouliot.

Our Current left wingers: Cogliano, Raymond, Garbutt, and Ritchie.

There's most certainly need for him. However, his contract makes him someone we wouldn't trade solid pieces for. Ideally we find a winger (who's overpaid but good) that we can trade Stoner for (maybe add a secondary piece).

That's why I said I would like Pouliot but not at the expense of Fowler (even as a package for Fowler).

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Well because you guys have 2 other players you ******* WANT to sign before keeping Fowler. And I have always said to retain 50% of Cammalleri's salary
Do you read the posts before hitting submit

Did you read my posts?

I didn't say it'd be a one-for-one but that it would be a good base for a swap. Anaheim needs a LW and also needs to sign their best defenseman before the season starts.



It was actually 42 and 45, his 32 point campaign was in the shortened season, which once again translates into a high PPG average. And in those 42 and 45 point seasons he also managed 26 and 27 goals, which could be argued to be top line production.

Regardless, if you think you're getting a bona fide top line winger that your team can afford for Cam Fowler--especially in your team's current predicament--you're dreaming. If Anaheim's going to effectively fill that void at LW and get Lindholm signed long-term, something's eventually going to have to give. That is why I believe a deal like this could happen.

there is zero logic to anaheim trading it's 2nd best dman for an injury prone, mid 30's winger as the primary piece. zero, zip, nada.

lol @ the idea that the ducks can't get something better than cammalleri

 

[belair]

there is zero logic to anaheim trading it's 2nd best dman for an injury prone, mid 30's winger as the primary piece. zero, zip, nada.

lol @ the idea that the ducks can't get something better than cammalleri

I didn't say they couldn't get something better than Cammalleri. I said that Fowler wouldn't get them a bona fide top line winger that they could afford.

 

[Smitty426]

Except that a third of the fan base here on hf says trade him

You have no #1 LW on the team

Mike C would easily be that #1 and based on 15-16 stats a top scorer on Ana

You have no cap room to grab the young player you want

Heck you don't have the cap room to sign the players already there

Zeto Zip Nada looks like 5 to me!

 

[TacitEndorsement]

Hall for Larsson actually happened, so it is real.

Excellent. I laughed out loud.

 

[Ducks in a row]

have to be pretty daft to find Fowler to be a quality top 4 option let alone significantly better than Larsson/Eriksson+

that said less than zero interest, outside of boxscore numbers I don't even see how Fowler is better than Sekera. Seriously make your case. I'd have interest in Lindholm, Vatanen, and Manson. 0 for fowler

Fowler has lead our team in overall time on ice while playing with a bottom pair quality partner doing so while being used in more of a shutdown role because of that his advanced stats don't look good. No one is foolish to find Fowler to be a quality top 4 defenseman option because he is a top 4 quality defenseman. If you don't find him to be one then your being foolish going off of hero charts that says Schultz > Fowler. Those same hero carts says that Josi and Weber barely register at shot suppression that they should be sheltered with a lot of offensive zone starts. Too many people are looking at such charts thinking they know how good or bad someone is and ignore that a very important part of evaluating someone involves watching them which is something NHL teams pay scouts to do with players.

 

[Duck Off]

Except that a third of the fan base here on hf says trade him

You have no #1 LW on the team

Mike C would easily be that #1 and based on 15-16 stats a top scorer on Ana

You have no cap room to grab the young player you want

Heck you don't have the cap room to sign the players already there

Zeto Zip Nada looks like 5 to me!

So because we need a LW means we should just trade Fowler for Cammi ? Give me a break. If the Ducks decide to trade Fowler, there's better options out there. End of story.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Except that a third of the fan base here on hf says trade him

You have no #1 LW on the team

Mike C would easily be that #1 and based on 15-16 stats a top scorer on Ana

You have no cap room to grab the young player you want

Heck you don't have the cap room to sign the players already there

Zeto Zip Nada looks like 5 to me!

Cammalleri is 34 years old and has been missing a lot of games over the years who knows when that will all catch up to him it could possibly happen this season. Also he is on the smaller side which isn't attractive to us either and would have to get used to our system he might not be as good in it as with the Devils system. We are not interested in someone like him especially when he makes 5 million a year and will need to be protected for expansion draft. Just because our LW isn't that good doesn't mean we will trade for just any LW that improves it.

We can trade Despres then re-sign Rakell to bridge deal and re-sign Lindholm to 5.5 - 6 million a year.

 

[ujju2]

You dont want RNH. Might as well keep Fowler.

And why would that be? Any team could use RNH. Oilers don't have a use for Fowler as it stands though. Another left shot.

 

[Smitty426]

Cammalleri is 34 years old and has been missing a lot of games over the years who knows when that will all catch up to him it could possibly happen this season. Also he is on the smaller side which isn't attractive to us either and would have to get used to our system he might not be as good in it as with the Devils system. We are not interested in someone like him especially when he makes 5 million a year and will need to be protected for expansion draft. Just because our LW isn't that good doesn't mean we will trade for just any LW that improves it.

We can trade Despres then re-sign Rakell to bridge deal and re-sign Lindholm to 5.5 - 6 million a year.

Well why would LV take a washed up old little guy, I mean that's the point you just made!
Those things work perfectly other than you don't have a #1 LW which was the point of all this

I think ww have all beat the subject up enough have a good season

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Except that a third of the fan base here on hf says trade him

You have no #1 LW on the team

Mike C would easily be that #1 and based on 15-16 stats a top scorer on Ana

You have no cap room to grab the young player you want

Heck you don't have the cap room to sign the players already there

Zeto Zip Nada looks like 5 to me!

it doesn't matter since he cannot stay on the ice. the ducks have zero interest in a fowler/cammalleri based trade, move on to something else it has no chance of happening

 

[Ducks in a row]

Well why would LV take a washed up old little guy, I mean that's the point you just made!
Those things work perfectly other than you don't have a #1 LW which was the point of all this

I think ww have all beat the subject up enough have a good season

Well he still would have 2 years left on his contract (can help stay above cap floor) and can help with veteran experience and provide some offense if he still is productive so a chance they might take him. He probably wouldn't be taken but regardless don't want him. We need someone to be able to stay in the lineup and not miss so many games. All the games he misses doesn't help us. Trading Fowler for him is just stupid. Trade Fowler for Tatar or Spooner is so much better and those teams would have interest.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Fowler has lead our team in overall time on ice while playing with a bottom pair quality partner doing so while being used in more of a shutdown role because of that his advanced stats don't look good. No one is foolish to find Fowler to be a quality top 4 defenseman option because he is a top 4 quality defenseman. If you don't find him to be one then your being foolish going off of hero charts that says Schultz > Fowler. Those same hero carts says that Josi and Weber barely register at shot suppression that they should be sheltered with a lot of offensive zone starts. Too many people are looking at such charts thinking they know how good or bad someone is and ignore that a very important part of evaluating someone involves watching them which is something NHL teams pay scouts to do with players.

part of the problem with the hero charts, it seems like people have no grasp of what "relative" means

 

[Ducks in a row]

part of the problem with the hero charts, it seems like people have no grasp of what "relative" means

Yea that is part of the problem but mostly it is still thinking you can use advanced stats and know how good or bad a player is without needing to watch the player at all to get the picture. Watching a player is always going to be important to getting the picture.

 

[Chayos]

Yea that is part of the problem but mostly it is still thinking you can use advanced stats and know how good or bad a player is without needing to watch the player at all to get the picture. Watching a player is always going to be important to getting the picture.

A lot of the player's on bottom 10 teams get their personal stats butchered by the state of the team. It is not always a true refection of the player. Sure he played bad, but the team was also horrendous around him.

 

[Soundwave]

Cammalleri is 34 years old and has been missing a lot of games over the years who knows when that will all catch up to him it could possibly happen this season. Also he is on the smaller side which isn't attractive to us either and would have to get used to our system he might not be as good in it as with the Devils system. We are not interested in someone like him especially when he makes 5 million a year and will need to be protected for expansion draft. Just because our LW isn't that good doesn't mean we will trade for just any LW that improves it.

We can trade Despres then re-sign Rakell to bridge deal and re-sign Lindholm to 5.5 - 6 million a year.

I'm not sure if there's that many teams willing to take Despres' contract without sending salary back. If there was I think Anaheim would've jumped on that.

If Lindholm is signed at say 6 mill per, and you gain say $1.5 mill in salary (have to take someone back) for Despres which then goes to a bridge deal for Rakell .... that puts Anaheim right at the cap roof.

Which is fine ... but from everything I've heard, the Anaheim ownership is not down for spending to the cap roof.

They need to move Fowler as part of a cap dump or attach one of Stoner + Despres in part of a Fowler deal so that they come out of it $3-$4 million less in salary, but you can't expect teams to take on that much salary unless the deal is favorable to them.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Our Current left wingers: Cogliano, Raymond, Garbutt, and Ritchie.

There's most certainly need for him. However, his contract makes him someone we wouldn't trade solid pieces for. Ideally we find a winger (who's overpaid but good) that we can trade Stoner for (maybe add a secondary piece).

That's why I said I would like Pouliot but not at the expense of Fowler (even as a package for Fowler).

Solid post. I can't argue with that logic, I just figured that we may as well have something to discuss.

And why would that be? Any team could use RNH. Oilers don't have a use for Fowler as it stands though. Another left shot.

While I'd prefer a RHD, I wouldn't say that we couldn't use Fowler.

Klefbom-Larsson
Fowler-Sekera

Not a bad top 4 at all IMO.

 

[Smitty426]

I'm not sure if there's that many teams willing to take Despres' contract without sending salary back. If there was I think Anaheim would've jumped on that.

If Lindholm is signed at say 6 mill per, and you gain say $1.5 mill in salary (have to take someone back) for Despres which then goes to a bridge deal for Rakell .... that puts Anaheim right at the cap roof.

Which is fine ... but from everything I've heard, the Anaheim ownership is not down for spending to the cap roof.

They need to move Fowler as part of a cap dump or attach one of Stoner + Despres in part of a Fowler deal so that they come out of it $3-$4 million less in salary, but you can't expect teams to take on that much salary unless the deal is favorable to them.

hmmmmmmm!

 

[dracom]

Except that a third of the fan base here on hf says trade him

You have no #1 LW on the team

Mike C would easily be that #1 and based on 15-16 stats a top scorer on Ana

You have no cap room to grab the young player you want

Heck you don't have the cap room to sign the players already there

Zeto Zip Nada looks like 5 to me!

We want to trade him to transfer the quality of positive from defense to offense. It's not like we think he's awful and needs to go. We just know that to improve our forward group, a good piece from defense needs to go.

Correct, which we want to trade Fowler for one.

Mike is not a #1 LW, just because he plays in that position doesn't make it true. Otherwise Bieksa is a top pairing player. Also, we need someone who can play a majority of the season, and there's a very good chance Mike will not do that. There's also major concern if he'll even fit our team, because frankly imo he doesn't fit at all. When trading players, you can't expect them to put up similar production on a new and drastically different teams. So yeah, who cares what he got last season, little chance/too much risk in hoping he can repeate that production. Teams don't trade young #2 defenseman for a return where an injury prone 34 year old winger who can't beat 45 points as the main piece.

There's two players that work for us cap wise, Tatar and Spooner, but have had fans on their teams be ok with a trade. Those are the players you trade Fowler for.

And about that cap, how is Mike's contract going to help us? Even at 50% retained, that's still not enough to make up for the age,injury issues, play style problems we're getting if we trade Fowler for Mike.

In summary, Fowler for Mike C is a godawful trade for the Ducks that also makes ZERO sense.