Call for sweeping changes?

[KINGS17]

Scoring 40 goals is hard to do, it has been since 2004.

I look again. But since 2009 you can count the number of 40G scorers on two hands.

And how many of these guys won a Stanley Cup in that same season?

I haven't checked, but I bet it's a small percentage.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

The call was recorded

 

[Jason Lewis]

70 points is all you can expect out of Kopitar going forward. If you expect more, you are going to be really disappointed.

Just like those Gabo scoring 40 goals posts to start this season.

It's really hard to score or produce in today's NHL. It gets even harder when you're in your late 20's and have been playing the big boy game since 19.

Kopitar being almost 100 shots off his average season totals is also kind of puzzling to me.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think it's fine to say that Kopitar may turn into another Yzerman, but it is time to jettison some of the supporting cast. Also, in a capped league, the Kings can't afford Kopitar to be sucking up an overly large percentage of the cap, especially with the Richards' cap penalty the team will be carrying.

Man, from a strictly hockey asset standpoint, I hope Voynov is reinstated and Sekera is re-signed. That would give Dean the ammo and the depth on the blue line he would need to trade a defenseman for a quality #3 center.

Make no mistake, guys like Martinez and Muzzin are in very high demand.

100% agree. And we're not going to see his extension this summer unless it's a cheapie. I actually see Kopi as more of our 1B center going forward as the 1A line is Carter's (more to do with linemates than actual abilities imo).

70 points is all you can expect out of Kopitar going forward. If you expect more, you are going to be really disappointed.

Just like those Gabo scoring 40 goals posts to start this season.

It's really hard to score or produce in today's NHL. It gets even harder when you're in your late 20's and have been playing the big boy game since 19.

To be fair Gaborik was scoring at a 44 goal pace in the playoffs and still at a 32 goal pace now. He's not going to surpass his production prime by any means but he's not a washup. Same with Kopitar. I agree that expecting 70 is fine, but that should be his baseline, age or not. I know the questions with Gabby are his healthy so hard to draw certainties there but Kopitar has spoiled us with consistency for his whole career so assuming health I think he's fine next year, no reason to think he's falling off a cliff.

 

[damacles1156]

100% agree. And we're not going to see his extension this summer unless it's a cheapie. I actually see Kopi as more of our 1B center going forward as the 1A line is Carter's (more to do with linemates than actual abilities imo).



To be fair Gaborik was scoring at a 44 goal pace in the playoffs and still at a 32 goal pace now. He's not going to surpass his production prime by any means but he's not a washup. Same with Kopitar. I agree that expecting 70 is fine, but that should be his baseline, age or not. I know the questions with Gabby are his healthy so hard to draw certainties there but Kopitar has spoiled us with consistency for his whole career so assuming health I think he's fine next year, no reason to think he's falling off a cliff.

No one said Kopitar is going to fall off a cliff production wise.

That is just as ludicrous as expecting Kopitar, to all of a sudden be an 82 point player is his late 20's.

 

[scramble91]

Why? And I think it's a legitimate question. Given what we know about today's NHL players and game, why do you want to lock a forward up to an expensive deal beyond age 35?

It's a legit question, but the 8 year deal will take him to 36. It's a tough choice for the Kings and anze, but in the free agent world, if Dean wants a 4-5 year deal then any agent will be asking 10+.

It's also about alternatives, and there is never a market for true no.1 centers because they are a rare commodity. Personally, I think it will be a 8 year deal because of the market. He had a down year in goal scoring, but still is the top dog in points very close to his normal 70. Drives possession like a madman, is the only consistent forward that can carry the puck into the ozone. He has his faults, but even though he goes through droughts, his yearly performance is consistent.

It's a dilemma for sure, but I'm sure Dean will be drawing up more charts for the internal discussions.

 

[CoachQ]

Just some thoughts:

Many fans have been calling for change, drastic or otherwise.

There will be some change next year desired or not. I don't care for the bashing that I have read the last couple of days. What have you done for me lately eh?

As a fan of 27 years (less than some more than others) I can say that the last few years have been a blast.

These guys are people and it's just a game. As fans we have been privileged and blessed to see two cup runs. I never thought I would see one.

The core still has a nice window. A few tweaks and they may contend next year again.

I wanted to address three specific targets around here lately:

Kopitar-Great player and should retire as a King. He is not Malkin but he is a huge reason for LA's success the last few years. They need him going forward.

Williams-Better than many give him credit for. Came up clutch numerous times. It will be sad to see him go if he prices himself out.

Sutter-Best Kings coach since I started watching them. Kings are a great team largely due to him. He can't score wide open nets for the players. He has preached it most of the year. Top players need to produce, all he can do is put them in a situation to do so. Guy has forgotten more about hockey than I will ever know. LA still had a good year point wise and some are calling for him to go. Really?

With two games left and the possibility of playoffs still alive I just want to say cheer for these guys and even if they lose, it may be a couple of their last games in Kings jerseys. Celebrate their past contributions and the joy they have brought to their fan base. Hope for the best.

Hey folks, Blackhawks fan here. Have to say that this is a fantastic post. You could swap out the names and that's my feeling on the Hawks as well. People have been spoiled the past few years at the success of both teams and it's disappointing that more folks don't realize this. It's not over yet, so maybe round #3 between our two teams might occur (I'm sure NBC does too, not sure they're overly excited about a potential WCF featuring Winnipeg and Nashville). Good luck.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Hey folks, Blackhawks fan here. Have to say that this is a fantastic post. You could swap out the names and that's my feeling on the Hawks as well. People have been spoiled the past few years at the success of both teams and it's disappointing that more folks don't realize this. It's not over yet, so maybe round #3 between our two teams might occur (I'm sure NBC does too, not sure they're overly excited about a potential WCF featuring Winnipeg and Nashville). Good luck.

Hawks fans once again prove that they are awesome.

 

[417th]

Three MORE times? I like the way you think...

You gotta read the sentence before where I said we would win as many as 3 cups over the next five years back in 2011. I think this team/core has one more cup left in it before we make bigger changes.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The evolution of the Kings top forward group has been interesting.

Starting when they got Richards, they also brought in Gagne. Penner was still there from the previous deadline. Brown was still a 25ish goal/50+ point guy. Williams was still 20+ goals, 55+ points. Gagne got hurt, Penner was trash. Richards wasn't quite enough to compensate for that, so they get Carter.

The following year, all those guys are still there, but Toffoli gets a chance in the playoffs.

Then Penner leaves. Brown's production falls off the map, Williams doesn't put up his usual numbers, and all Richards does by that point is pass to Carter all the time. Carter replaces Richards as the 2nd line center, Toffoli gets more ice time because of that, and they also trade for Gaborik in part because Brown just couldn't score. Then Pearson becomes a larger part of the picture in the playoffs like Toffoli the year before.

This season, Richards get booted off the team, Brown still can't score, Williams is no longer a 55+ point winger, Carter, Toffoli, and Gaborik are keeping the Kings above water, but now Kopitar shoots less than he ever has, and nobody has been able to pick up the slack.

Every addition the Kings have made, has coincided with a decrease from players that were already here. Which one came first is the eternal question. Kopitar has been the one constant in there through all the other changes. 1st line wingers, 2nd line wingers, 2nd line center, they've all changed in some form, and the Kings have been able to bring other guys in to help as that has changed. Except with Kopitar this year. But you're not just going to bring in another #1 center and push Kopitar down a slot like they've been able to do with everyone else.

Now another round of change will happen this summer with Williams most likely gone. How that gets figured out will go a long way in determining how next season goes. Will Kopitar shoot again, the way he has in the past when the Kings didn't have as many offensive options? Can they get a couple more goals out of Brown? Will they be able to get anyone? Will they give players in the pipeline a longer look? Huge questions, since the veterans will be another year older.

 

[LAKings88]

Hawks fans once again prove that they are awesome.

Agreed.

Thanks CoachQ

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Great post, first of all.

I think the only way to protect that a little bit is to get younger. Whether we do that by promotions or trading some of our D prospects/picks for forward prospects and picks is the real question. Signing someone from the outside is probably not financially feasible or good bang-for-the-buck.

 

[417th]

Coaches don't tell players not to drive the net or shoot the puck.

Around the net is where about 98% of NHL goals are scored. If your players don't go their consistently, your offense will suck regardless of who is coaching.

Players have to be willing to pay the price, the Kings do that in the playoffs , and not so much in the regular season.

That's not a Coaching issue.

Sutter can't make Kopitar shoot the puck. This season Kopitar registered his lowest shot total of his career. Sutter didn't tell Kopitar "Don't shoot the puck this season".

It's the same garbage people on this board spew about the PP when Kompon was around. The constant with the Kings PP is the core players running it, and they suck at it.

Kompon has the Hawks PP doing fine (I wonder why ? ) IT's the players.

Wasn't Kompn fired prior to last season where he took the job of being the Head Coach and GM of the winterhawks?

 

[KINGS17]

Hey folks, Blackhawks fan here. Have to say that this is a fantastic post. You could swap out the names and that's my feeling on the Hawks as well. People have been spoiled the past few years at the success of both teams and it's disappointing that more folks don't realize this. It's not over yet, so maybe round #3 between our two teams might occur (I'm sure NBC does too, not sure they're overly excited about a potential WCF featuring Winnipeg and Nashville). Good luck.

Just wondering in retrospect, how do you feel about the Kane and Toews deals?

 

[damacles1156]

Wasn't Kompn fired prior to last season where he took the job of being the Head Coach and GM of the winterhawks?

I don't think he was fired. I meant to put (Had) in there.

The Hawks were fine, still fine. It's the players and their foundation. Not coaching.

 

[Pandaman11]

Many fans have been calling for change, drastic or otherwise.

Am I the only one who wants Brown to be traded or bought out? I mean he'll forever be the captain that lifted the first two Cups, but nearly $6M until 2022 (!) for 10 goals and 30 points? Sorry, but only leadership and hitting on the 3rd line won't cut it at that price. We could use the money for fresher bodies because let's be honest: his 30-goal/60-point days will never return.
I think we shouldn't hang on too much on past merits. That's how Italian politics works, but that's not how a sports team should work.

Kopitar-Great player and should retire as a King. He is not Malkin but he is a huge reason for LA's success the last few years. They need him going forward.

Thank god he's not.

 

[417th]

I don't think he was fired. I meant to put (Had) in there.

The Hawks were fine, still fine. It's the players and their foundation. Not coaching.

Yes, not disagreeing with your point merely wondering where Kompon currently was. He was fired (released) by the BlackHawks and took the job of head coach and gm of the Winterhawks prior to the start of last season. Point still stands though.

 

[damacles1156]

I think the Kane and Toews deals are fine, the Hawks had to pay them. The good part is the Hawks have those two locked up for all of their Prime prdouction years.

Both are 26 this year. Kane was having a career year, Toews is right about his average.

The Hawks will feel it a little next season (Cap) but Toews/Kane are the future still. Had the Hawks let them go, that franchise is done competing for the next Five/seven years.

 

[Pandaman11]

Huh? He will be 28. Getzlaf started becoming a Hart candidate in his age 27-29 seasons.

Agreed. Besides, everyone has a down year. Getzlaf had one, Ovechkin had more than one, even Crosby & Stamkos are having down years for their standards. Players like that will bounce back, I'm not worried about Kopitar.

 

[CoachQ]

Just wondering in retrospect, how do you feel about the Kane and Toews deals?

I really don't think Hawks management had a choice in paying these two. Obviously in hindsight it's a lot of money taking up the cap, but quite honestly who would have thought that the Canadian dollar would have shrunk so much. If Kane hit the open market, I am sure that Terry Pegula would spare no expense to bring Kane "home" to Buffalo and pair him with McDavid. The current management regime was not going to let this happen (it's scary to think about what the old regime would have done), so I have no problems with it.

 

[damacles1156]

Agreed. Besides, everyone has a down year. Getzlaf had one, Ovechkin had more than one, even Crosby & Stamkos are having down years for their standards. Players like that will bounce back, I'm not worried about Kopitar.

Kopitar is not even having a down year. He is having an average year.

65 to 70 points is his average.

 

[CoachQ]

I think the Kane and Toews deals are fine, the Hawks had to pay them. The good part is the Hawks have those two locked up for all of their Prime prdouction years.

Both are 26 this year. Kane was having a career year, Toews is right about his average.

The Hawks will feel it a little next season (Cap) but Toews/Kane are the future still. Had the Hawks let them go, that franchise is done competing for the next Five/seven years.

Exactly and it would have happened under Old Man Wirtz and his puppet Pulford (it's so nice to have competent management).

 

[Pandaman11]

Kopitar is not even having a down year. He is having an average year.

65 to 70 points is his average.

It feels like a down year though (which is a statement about his greatness)

 

[MynameisKing]

The Kings need midgets! No really, they are one dimensional. It's all straight North-South. It's easy to defend strategically if you know what to expect. They're like the reverse Oilers in terms of having too much of the same kind of players. It wouldn't hurt to have one or two undersized waterbugs to spin the tops off of defenders in the lineup.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Henrique from NJD?

Would cost way too much.