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Call for sweeping changes?

damacles1156 said:
Read post #19, that is your answer for where all the Kings offense dried up.
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no it is not. those two players aren't and were never offensively talented players in the first place. At least not in a Kings uniform. Yeah they're overpaid but that is besides the point.

The team has grown out of it's 2012 style of play
 
Vamos Rafa said:
Huh? He will be 28. Getzlaf started becoming a Ross candidate in his age 27-29 seasons.
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They don't even play remotely the same game. Getzlaf hasn't had a career year since 08-09. The numbers are not in anyone's favor getting closer to 28/29 years of age.
 
RoyalVoyager said:
But for a team to have:

Gaborik - Kopitar - Brown/Williams
Pearson/King - Carter - Toffoli

as their top 6 with Doughty on the blue line and consistently put up the numbers they do? Something isn't right here
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Gaborik, Williams, Brown, and Carter are all 30+. Unless you're the 14-15 Flames, multiple guys that are over 30 don't have career best offensive seasons all at the same time. Why the biggest problem everyone has with Kopitar has become more pronounced this season, I don't know. Tired? Gaborik riding shotgun and deferring to him? More offensive talent through the lineup? Where the shots have gone is a mystery.
 
RoyalVoyager said:
no it is not. those two players aren't and were never offensively talented players in the first place. At least not in a Kings uniform. Yeah they're overpaid but that is besides the point.

The team has grown out of it's 2012 style of play
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Everyone that receives tops six time or PP time reached their career averages at least or had career years.

The only major shift is scoring this year, was Kopitar (goals) and Brown/Richards.

That is where the offense came up short.
 
johnjm22 said:
I like how the franchise is positioned moving forward. We have some problems for sure, but every team has problems. I don't see a need for major changes.

Kopitar should be, and will be, signed to a lucrative long term contract.
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Mike Richards and Matt Greene are two problems. Richards is a big one. That contract is going to hinder us for several years.
 
Sutter isn't really holding back anything.

Just the decline of key players, that's all. No Voynov, Richards/Stoll/Brown/Martinez/Greene having really down years. King being what he is. Lewis, Clifford, Nolan can only do so much.

There just isn't enough REAL scoring depth.
 
damacles1156 said:
They don't even play remotely the same game. Getzlaf hasn't had a career year since 08-09. The numbers are not in anyone's favor getting closer to 28/29 years of age.
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Getzlaf was able to come back from a horrible 2011-12 season. His career year was 6 years ago but he's still an elite player today. 28/29 is just entering the prime for most players. You don't have to have career years at those ages but you don't have a steep decline in scoring goals, either.
 
damacles1156 said:
Coaches don't tell players not to drive the net or shoot the puck.

Around the net is where about 98% of NHL goals are scored. If your players don't go their consistently, your offense will suck regardless of who is coaching.

Players have to be willing to pay the price, the Kings do that in the playoffs , and not so much in the regular season.

That's not a Coaching issue.

Sutter can't make Kopitar shoot the puck. This season Kopitar registered his lowest shot total of his career. Sutter didn't tell Kopitar "Don't shoot the puck this season".

It's the same garbage people on this board spew about the PP when Kompon was around. The constant with the Kings PP is the core players running it, and they suck at it.

Kompon has the Hawks PP doing fine (I wonder why ? ) IT's the players.
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Coaching has an impact on offense output. It's a combination of players and coaching.

You think if Bruce Boudreau was coach right now the Kings wouldn't be scoring more goals? Of course they would.

Doesn't change the fact that Sutter is one of the best coaches in the NHL.
 
Wow, an 8 year deal for Kopitar is the last thing I'd do. Cannot even score
20 goals at the prime age of 27. What's his game going to be like in 3 years, let alone 8? He's lost speed, tenacity, and game changing ways. Look at clips of him 5 years ago - he did dominating things EVERY SHIFT. Was incredible.

I would rather explore a 'Richards' kind of deal for him, in which the Flyers got Schenn, Simmonds, and a #2 pick, before giving him a 6-8 year deal. DL 'rewarded' the team, after each Cup, by giving new deals to: Stoll, Williams, Greene, Gaborik, and going out and getting Carter, Regehr, Gaborik and Sekera to reward the team to get them the personnel needed to go far...well, it's now time to do the right thing and that is letting Stoll and Williams go, for starters.

Again - did not say I wanted Kopitar gone (I have his jersey)...just that it may be the better to explore a deal, (why not?) instead of giving him a 6-8 year deal for 8+ million, that will most assuradly end up being a deal that everyone hates just 2 years from now. He will not become the beast he was and suddenly gain speed and
the dominating play he had. Sure, he can top 20 goals again and be a very good player. But if the Kings can get 3 great young assets for him now, how can you not consider that, at this juncture?
 
johnjm22 said:
Coaching has an impact on offense output. It's a combination of players and coaching.

You think if Bruce Boudreau was coach right now the Kings wouldn't be scoring more goals? Of course they would.

Doesn't change the fact that Sutter is one of the best coaches in the NHL.
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I don't think they would.

This core has already had, its base/foundation set from Terry Murray. That's not going to change this late in their careers.

Boudreau hasn't done anything really with the Ducks, they play exactly the same way they did before he got there.
 
The Kings are at a crossroads right now. They can either be a borderline playoff team going forward (which they were both times they won the Cup) or they can trim the fat, reload, and contend for the next five years. I believe the latter will happen. You can only stand next to the fire for so long before being burned and the Kings were burned this season. They walked a very fine line in both 2012 and 2014. They walked an even finer line this year and are paying for it. I've said it since 2012 and I'll say it again - the core of the Kings rivals any in the league. I've expanded my core to Doughty, Quick, Carter, Gaborik, Kopitar, and now Toffoli. I'd entertain offers on Pearson, but he's definitely second tier with the likes of Muzzin and Martinez.

I expect Dean to make wholesale changes this offseason by jettisoning all the fat on this team and supplementing in hungry, young talent. That's how you have prolonged excellence. That's how the Kings won the Cup both years - Voynov, King, Nolan, Toffoli, and Pearson all stepped in and paid immediate dividends. The Richards fiasco has hardened Dean and this offseason is going to be monumental.
 
Vamos Rafa said:
Getzlaf was able to come back from a horrible 2011-12 season. His career year was 6 years ago but he's still an elite player today. 28/29 is just entering the prime for most players. You don't have to have career years at those ages but you don't have a steep decline in scoring goals, either.
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This has been debunked numerous times on this board, I wish people would stop parroting this garbage.

The prime production years for NHL players is 23-28 years of age. Numerous studies have been done on it.

After 28 years of age the likely hood of high production is very low IE (Brown/Richards).

No one enters their prime in 28/29 years of age it's a myth. Their are few exceptions, IE (Lidstrom)

A man's body is in it's prime at 28 to 35. But that has nothing to do with Hockey production.
 
This team needs a 3rd line center that can score, and some wingers that can chip in too on the 3rd line. That will add some scoring depth to the team. All the other teams in the conference were building the teams to add more depth, and they got better. While the Kings pretty much kept the same team together. Except for the guys that left because their contract was up. It might be time to make some trades to fix the holes this team has. And try to dump the bad contracts they have.
 
Vamos Rafa said:
Need to put more emphasis on regular season success. I know, I know, it's all about the Cup but we can't be fighting for the last playoff spot all season. It's just not healthy. Kopitar also needs to finally be a PPG player. Also, unless he scores 4 in the next two games, there's really no excuse for him to be a sub-20 goal scorer. I don't know if Brown will ever score 20 goals again but 11 goals without missing a single game this season is just embarrassing. I would like to see Pearson and Toffoli on the first line next year. Maybe that woukd help Kopi become a PPG player.
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Funny enough, Vancouver broughta couple of guys in who their coach/GM thought would help them get a few points via shootout. Sutter openly blasts shootout. Guess who will be golfing in a day or two?

Don't get me wrong, SO and 4v4 are largely gimmick hockey, but if you give your team the attitude that it doesn't matter, what do you think will happen? just win 50% of your shootouts and 50% of your overtimes and we have home ice advantage with an iced tea in our hands right now.

Jason Lewis said:
Kings just need to detach themselves from some select players.

Going to be a couple of down years but I don't see them on a huge backslide or anything.

Also, kind of relevant since I see some talking about the scoring. I'd agree.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Jaso...-Depth-Has-the-Kings-Where-They-Are/179/67762
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Totally agree. Funny that we're so bad offensively. As Damacles said, it's just our key players didn't play like our key players this year. We can give 1000 reasons but they would just be 1000 excuses. Where some of us will have to agree to disagree is talking about their demise. I see Kopitar and Brown bouncing back big next year. Williams might keep his same production but his puck possession days are done. maybe the same fatigue that put kopitar on his ass all year, but regardless, we can't pay him a few million to find out. We all know going into next year that our real offensive first line is Pearson-Carter-Toffoli; the question is who plays next to Gaborik-Kopitar, and if the answer is Brown, we need a guy who can play that tweener role a bit, so pick up a tweener who can play wing that can jump up and down the lineup like Brown-Lewis-King can. In any case, no matter what changes we make, our core needs to continually be our best players, we're not adding a Crosby.
 
johnjm22 said:
I like how the franchise is positioned moving forward. We have some problems for sure, but every team has problems. I don't see a need for major changes.

Kopitar should be, and will be, signed to a lucrative long term contract.
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Why? And I think it's a legitimate question. Given what we know about today's NHL players and game, why do you want to lock a forward up to an expensive deal beyond age 35?
 
Kings need a HUNGRY 3C. Some guy that has been on a ****** team and is willing to work his ass off on a contender.
 
damacles1156 said:
This has been debunked numerous times on this board, I wish people would stop parroting this garbage.

The prime production years for NHL players is 23-28 years of age. Numerous studies have been done on it.

After 28 years of age the likely hood of high production is very low IE (Brown/Richards).

No one enters their prime in 28/29 years of age it's a myth. Their are few exceptions, IE (Lidstrom)

A man's body is in it's prime at 28 to 35. But that has nothing to do with Hockey production.
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I think what he's saying--and I agree--is that while their production goes down, a lot of these guys become better players for a beak around 28-32. Call it IQ, experience, man strength, whatever, even if their peak production is over, they're still able to dominate games.

Edit: and I think that goes double for defensemen, those that aren't burned out physically anyway. Easy to see why a guy like Lidstrom tore it up late, same with Bourque et. al.
 
Brad Doty said:
I think what he's saying--and I agree--is that while their production goes down, a lot of these guys become better players for a beak around 28-32. Call it IQ, experience, man strength, whatever, even if their peak production is over, they're still able to dominate games.

Edit: and I think that goes double for defensemen, those that aren't burned out physically anyway. Easy to see why a guy like Lidstrom tore it up late, same with Bourque et. al.
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That's all fine and dandy.

But anyone expecting Kopitar to be a PPG player this late in his career, when he has never been one(even in his prime production years)....

Lets deal in reality here.

Would you agree Justin Williams got better with age ? Yes. Did he have any career producing years ? No. He had a playoff for the ages though, but what is the likely hood of that ? low. really , really low.
 
70 points is all you can expect out of Kopitar going forward. If you expect more, you are going to be really disappointed.

Just like those Gabo scoring 40 goals posts to start this season.

It's really hard to score or produce in today's NHL. It gets even harder when you're in your late 20's and have been playing the big boy game since 19.
 
Brad Doty said:
I think what he's saying--and I agree--is that while their production goes down, a lot of these guys become better players for a beak around 28-32. Call it IQ, experience, man strength, whatever, even if their peak production is over, they're still able to dominate games.

Edit: and I think that goes double for defensemen, those that aren't burned out physically anyway. Easy to see why a guy like Lidstrom tore it up late, same with Bourque et. al.
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I think it's fine to say that Kopitar may turn into another Yzerman, but it is time to jettison some of the supporting cast. Also, in a capped league, the Kings can't afford Kopitar to be sucking up an overly large percentage of the cap, especially with the Richards' cap penalty the team will be carrying.

Man, from a strictly hockey asset standpoint, I hope Voynov is reinstated and Sekera is re-signed. That would give Dean the ammo and the depth on the blue line he would need to trade a defenseman for a quality #3 center.

Make no mistake, guys like Martinez and Muzzin are in very high demand.
 
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