McFlyingV
Registered User
Based on what? Surely not when looking at the Flames and Oilers PK% this year. Don't bother responding, I have your excuses already for you. Goaltending, new coach, etc.
Proposal: Calgary - Edmonton
- Thread starter oilersfan87
- Start date
Based on what? Surely not when looking at the Flames and Oilers PK% this year. Don't bother responding, I have your excuses already for you. Goaltending, new coach, etc.
Again, Flames fans claiming to be the arbiters of "defence", when they are worse defensively doesn't mean a whole lot. And as mentioned above the Flames PK is abysmal this year.
RNH has shown he can produce at a 2nd line center, Backlund is a third line center. That is a downgrade, we need more secondary scoring not less.
I'm not willing to do that trade for Dougie Hamilton, who quite frankly has been fairly disappointing with the Flames. Yes he would probably add a couple more goals from our back end, but also likely give up an equal amount or more due to his soft play. I've seen little/no evidence he can run/QB a PP.
I'd rather keep a player like Nurse and see how he develops.
Beyond that these two teams would never make such a trade.
Does he? Because last I checked the Oilers had the 2nd best PK(with RNH playing 2 min a game) and the Flames have the 29th(with Backlund playing 2 min agame)
.You have a starting goaltender vs the Oilers career back up.
Giordano/Brodie/Hamilton are all better than any Oilers defenseman
Forwards seem to be Selke candidates vs the Oilers one dimensional soft overpaid babies
Yet the eye test and stats say the Flames suck
East Coast Icestyle
Registered User
He's been playing top pairing minutes the past ten games, he has the same oz starts as Morgan Reilly, and guess what, he's a good defenseman regardless of yours and everyone else's ice time obsession.
Your steaming hot takes are stupid, as you've obviously never watched the flames if you think he's ever been used as a number four. To start this season he had to hold down the third pair because Gulu had an obsession with splitting up the big three. Outside of that he has been used as a 2/3. And sorry, not every dman in the league has to play the pk to be a good player.
I don't know why people come out of nowhere in every Hamilton thread with this, like, anger that we want to keep him, and start claiming that he is a bad defenseman. If you don't like him, stay out of the thread. If you're trying, stay out of the thread. And if you know absolutely nothing about the player, don't make unsubstantiated claims.
That's great and all, but he's not playing with Giordano in Edmonton. Most likely his D partner would be Sekera, and we would see what his performance is then.
East Coast Icestyle
Registered User
Why do I care who he would play with in Edmonton? I was responding to yet another idiotic claim that he's a garbage defenseman. He's not. He's Calgary's best defensive right now, and he's not going to be playing for Edmonton so the point is moot.
- Oct 12, 2012
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It's happened twice before. While not the same the Flames and Canucks have also made deals twice in the past 2 years.
I dare you to try back up your steaming statement(s).....but you won't and you can't
Dertell
Registered User
- Jul 14, 2015
- 2,925
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That's nice of you, but it wasn't necessary.
Backlund: 23.3 GF%
RNH: 0 GF%
Backlund: 6.53 GA60 (-0.68 relative)
RNH: 6.59 GA60 (3.7 relative)
Backlund: 44.51 SA60 (-1.7 relative)
RNH: 48.98 SA60 (3.04 relative)
Backlund: 3 Goal, 4 Primary Assists
RNH: Nothing
(past two years)
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Do show me a metric that shows Klefbom does "alright" without Larsson, that doesn't also show Hamilton does "just-as-alright" without Giordano. Although, I just noticed Klefbom doesn't actually do all that well with Larsson either.
So he faces the third-toughest competition on the team...yet he's a #4 defenseman.
As for ice time, I suppose this is pretty sufficient proof that Leon Draisaitl is just a #3 centre, not unlike Kevin Hayes.
Oh. and Dougie being #5 in PK ice time is not an indictment on him, it's an indictment on a coaching staff with nepotistic ties to Engelland dating back to the ECHL, even though Engelland is quantifiably one of the three worst penalty killing defensemen the entire league has seen over the last three years along with Nik Grossmann and Mark Fayne. Wideman/Russell on the other hand have been surprisingly good PKers and I don't have a problem with Hamilton playing behind them on the PK (oh look, Kris Russell leads the Oilers in PK TOI% while Klefbom is fourth behind the great Eric Gryba).
Interesting thought process.
Dougie Hamilton - 30.2 OZF%, 47.5 OZS%
Oscar Klefbom - 30.7 OZF%, 50.4 OZS%
Dougie Hamilton - 61.42 PP TOI, 2.46 PP ATOI
Oscar Klefbom - 68.83 PP TOI, 2.87 PP ATOI
Hmm.
Owned.
MDCSL
Registered User
I think nurse isn't the defenseman that gets it done.
Nuge @ 6 + Larsson @ 4.2 = 10.2
For
Backlund @ 3.6 + Hamilton @ 5.75 = 9.35
Flames get a better center, oilers get a real rh ppqb
Nuge @ 6 + Larsson @ 4.2 = 10.2
For
Backlund @ 3.6 + Hamilton @ 5.75 = 9.35
Flames get a better center, oilers get a real rh ppqb
Hmmmm not sure why you're bringing up Klefbom. Probably just another way to avoid all the BS statements made about Norris Hamilton and Selke Backlund
McFlyingV
Registered User
Probably good to use last season where Nuge was 6th on the team in SH TOI/game among forwards on the Oilers. Clearly he had a ton of practice and was quite used to PKing, a role he did none of prior to that season.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
You're right he should just use this season where the Flames have the second worst SH SV% (82.95%) in the NHL behind the lowly Chicago Blackhawks while the Oilers have the highest SH SV% in the NHL behind the great Carolina Hurricanes (91.82%).
By the way all the other stats that aren't tied directly to SV%, still favor Backlund this season:
Backlund -0.81 GA60Rel
RNH 0.67 GA60Rel
Backlund 101.53 CA60
RNH 113.85 CA60
Backlund -1.75 CA60Rel
RNH +7.30 CA60Rel
Backlund 2 Pts
RNH 0 Pts
Backlund QoC 104.54 CF60
RNH QoC 100.67 CF60
Backlund TOI% 40.15
RNH TOI% 38.77%
FlamerForLife
Mon Seanahan
McFlyingV
Registered User
As I said earlier. Insert goaltender excuse. It worked last year, and people on here actually believed it.
If I wanted your advanced stats then the Oilers would be a top 8 team in the league this season. Unfortunately advanced stats don't account for terrible defensive mistakes committed more often than other teams.
Dertell
Registered User
- Jul 14, 2015
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I shouldn't have bothered responding, you had your excuses already for yourself as well.
McFlyingV
Registered User
At least I can accept my teams faults rather than blaming it on the poor old goaltenders every season.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
McFlyingV
Registered User
You can only do that, because Cam Talbot is (was) putting up a Vezina-worthy season
You mean like Chad Johnson in his last 5 or 6 starts in games the Flames barely had any business being in?
The Oilers team defence has had its ups and downs this season no question. Some good games, some horrible games with about as poor mistakes as a professional hockey player could make. The good thing is both of our teams are fairly young and hopefully these types of mistakes will be minimized and ironed out. No need to blame the goalies all season for terrible inconsistent defensive play by the team in front of them.
McShogun99
Registered User
A trade like this would never happen between Edmonton and Calgary. To many important pieces being moved by each team.
- Oct 12, 2012
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I agree with this, I think it would take a little bit more from the Oilers side. I'm not sure what the add would need to be though, Maybe Kassian?
I think the value in the OP is remarkably close and even tries to address each teams needs as much as possible, well done.
To bad its Calgary/Edmonton , which means it will never happen.
To bad its Calgary/Edmonton , which means it will never happen.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
I do, except Johnson hasn't played 20+ games where Talbot has.
When you put up an Adj.FSV% below 0.00, you the goalie are responsible for it. Last year both Ortio and Ramo had Adj.FSV% above (or at least damn close to) 0.00 and I never blamed them for their GAA or SV% even if they were below league average. This year Johnson has an Adj.FSV% above 0.00 and I don't blame him.
I blame Hiller because he was horrible last year - and his Adj.FSV% was also worst in the NHL.
I don't think Elliott is a bad goalie by any means, and he's had plenty of quality starts, but in games where has put up an RBS (Really Bad Start) there have been at multiple goals he should have made.
I don't ask for a goalie to put up 1.00 GA or .930 every night. All I ask is an adj.FSV% above 0.00 over a full sample. If that only results in a SV% of .902 like it did for Ortio last year, I am fine with that.
I also don't pretend the Flames are a great defensive team. We have our share of awful defensive players (Monahan, Wideman, Grossmann (Thank god he is gone), Engelland on the PK, Freddie Hamilton, Troy Brouwer, Shinkaruk. And even some of our good defensive players (Kulak, Bennett, Hamilton, Gaudreau) are on the young side and will make the odd mistake. Chad Johnson is outperforming expectation but Elliott is absolutely, invariably underperforming his. Elliott's xGA of 33.66 across 13 games = 2.59 is not that of a great team, but it's also not that of a player who should have a GA of 43. That's about 9 more goals he has allowed that he should have. Talbot has allowed 12 less goals than he should have. There is a huge gap that makes comparing the two team's PK by goals against pretty meaningless. Johnson and Elliott play on the same damn team, you can't pretend one hasn't been worse than an average NHL goalie so far. But I also don't think Elliott's poor play is indicative of future poor play.
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